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Author Topic:   Rulings Thread Part 48 (ALL rules-related questions go HERE!)
hilikuS
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posted July 11, 2011 06:19 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for hilikuS Click Here to Email hilikuS Send a private message to hilikuS Click to send hilikuS an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View hilikuS's Trade Auction or SaleView hilikuS's Trade Auction or Sale
Came across this question at the pre-release yesterday afternoon. Ok basically, there's this dude there, and for whatever reason, my friend feels like he brought cards in from somewhere other than his sealed pool. Like, he had "at least 2 Aegis Angel", and my friend thought that was kind of shady. The dude has a reputation of being a scab, and so it's fairly possible that he actually did cheat.

My question being, is there any possible way to check for that, and if so, how would you go about doing that?

The only way we could think of is ask the TO (store owner), to count his rares in his deck and sideboard, and if he was dumb enough to not think of that, he'd be cheating?

I realize it's all sorts of possible that he could have just gotten 2 of the same rare in his sealed pool, but I'm just wondering if there is any way to check that.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by hilikuS on July 11, 2011]

 
Drexus
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posted July 11, 2011 06:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Drexus Click Here to Email Drexus Send a private message to Drexus Click to send Drexus an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I feel like we have the same issue with scaly players at our pre-releases. A lot of regulars feel the same way but nothing really has been done about it.

I guess if you're REALLY, sure and you suspect the guy has been careless. The easiest way is to count his sideboard. Specifically, the number of rares/uncommons/commons. Even if he has swapped out cards perhaps he was careless with the rarities. I don't actually say anything anymore. The last time I made a scene was when I was drafting overseas. Played a guy sitting right next to me at the draft. He comes with the most ridiculously deck filled with cards I had never passed....

The owner defended him as he was a regular. Basically, not worth the fuss especially cos its so hard to prove and even if you have decent evidence they not might act accordingly

 
Sovarius
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posted July 14, 2011 02:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
If you think someone is cheating and they don't check up on them, they can get in trouble if you report the To/store owner. They should know that. Let them know that.

So if i block with my banding creatures and i get to assign how they take damage, does this work for trample? Or will each be assigned up to lethal damage?

 
WestWycke
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posted July 14, 2011 04:13 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WestWycke Click Here to Email WestWycke Send a private message to WestWycke Click to send WestWycke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Whenever a creature is blocked and at least 1 blocker has banding, the defending player gets to assign where all the attacker's damage will be assigned. This means that if your Benalish Hero blocks their Blightsteel Colossus, you can assign all the damage to the Hero. (One VERY dead Hero!)

The key to this scenario is that the player assigning damage can assign it any legal way they want. Assigning trample damage to the defending player is always optional. It's just that it is by far the most common choice when damage is assigned by the attacking player.
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[Edited 3 times, lastly by WestWycke on July 14, 2011]

 
howiesauce
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posted July 14, 2011 09:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for howiesauce Send a private message to howiesauce Click to send howiesauce an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Where is the rule that explains that all the cards put onto the battlefield from a genesis wave see each other enter play.

Say a cast genesis wave for 6 and i get 2 elvish archdruids and a warstorm surge from M12. they all 3 enter at the same time so the 2 archdruids see each other enter and each get the +1/+1 from the other and the warstorm surge will allow them to deal 3 damage each.

 
joz
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posted July 14, 2011 09:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for joz Click Here to Email joz Send a private message to joz Click to send joz an Instant MessageVisit joz's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by howiesauce:
Where is the rule that explains that all the cards put onto the battlefield from a genesis wave see each other enter play.

Say a cast genesis wave for 6 and i get 2 elvish archdruids and a warstorm surge from M12. they all 3 enter at the same time so the 2 archdruids see each other enter and each get the +1/+1 from the other and the warstorm surge will allow them to deal 3 damage each.


Thats more of a matter of static abilities, and a triggered ability.

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howiesauce
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posted July 14, 2011 09:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for howiesauce Send a private message to howiesauce Click to send howiesauce an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
As for the ruling on the genesis wave though. Where is it written that all cards enter simultaneously. Someone was saying I needed to do 1 card at a time so the first archdruid would be a 2/2 and then the second would be a 3/3. I need proof.
 
darius vitrosoo
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posted July 14, 2011 10:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for darius vitrosoo Click Here to Email darius vitrosoo Send a private message to darius vitrosoo Click to send darius vitrosoo an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
how does scrambleverse chose a player at random?
 
caquaa
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posted July 14, 2011 10:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
how does scrambleverse chose a player at random?

does it matter? flip a coin, roll a die, draw names out of a hat, etc etc etc

 
Zakman86
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posted July 14, 2011 10:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zakman86 Click Here to Email Zakman86 Send a private message to Zakman86 Click to send Zakman86 an Instant MessageVisit Zakman86's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Zakman86's Have/Want ListView Zakman86's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by howiesauce:
As for the ruling on the genesis wave though. Where is it written that all cards enter simultaneously. Someone was saying I needed to do 1 card at a time so the first archdruid would be a 2/2 and then the second would be a 3/3. I need proof.

The wording on Genesis Wave gives you all the proof you need. In addition, a spell must completely resolve before any triggers can be resolved from the results of that spell.

 
Kyzneg
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posted July 14, 2011 10:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by howiesauce:
As for the ruling on the genesis wave though. Where is it written that all cards enter simultaneously. Someone was saying I needed to do 1 card at a time so the first archdruid would be a 2/2 and then the second would be a 3/3. I need proof.

In addition to Zakman86's comments, the following information from the FAQ for Warp World may be useful in convincing whoever it was that was arguing that the cards entered the battlefield one at a time (see here for the full FAQ entry):

quote:
Originally posted by Warp World FAQ - 10/15/2006:
Anything that triggers during the resolution of this will wait to be put on the stack until everything is put onto the battlefield and resolution is complete. The player whose turn it is will put all of his or her triggered abilities on the stack in any order, then each other player in turn order will do the same. (The last ability put on the stack will be the first one that resolves.)

quote:
Originally posted by Warp World FAQ - 10/1/2009:
Taking it slowly, here's what happens when Warp World resolves:

quote:
Originally posted by Warp World FAQ - 10/1/2009:
4) Each player puts all artifact, land, and creature cards revealed this way onto the battlefield. All of these cards enter the battlefield at the same time.

Edit:

Also, rules 116.2a and 116.2b apply here:

quote:
Originally posted by Rule 116.2a:
Triggered abilities can trigger at any time, including while a spell is being cast, an ability is
being activated, or a spell or ability is resolving. (See rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities.”)
However, nothing actually happens at the time an ability triggers. Each time a player would
receive priority, each ability that has triggered but hasn’t yet been put on the stack is put on the
stack. See rule 116.5

quote:
Originally posted by Rule 116.2b:
Static abilities continuously affect the game. Priority doesn’t apply to them. (See rule 604,
“Handling Static Abilities,” and rule 611, “Continuous Effects.”)

So the triggers from the Warstorm Surge for each Elvish Archdruid won't put the triggered abilities on the stack until Genesis Wave has completely resolved, at which point the static abilities of each Archdruid is already affecting the other, making both 3/3 (assuming no other power/toughness boosting effects are relevant). Joz already mentioned this above, but those are the rules to point to if your friend or whoever doesn't believe you.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Kyzneg on July 14, 2011]

 
WeedIan
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posted July 16, 2011 04:56 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
A rule that doesn't make sense to me, why does equipment that is turned into creatures lose the ability to equip?

Other Artifacts don't lose their abilities if i turn them into 5/5's with Tez, i can still tap things with my tumble magnet if he's a 5/5

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Kyzneg
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posted July 16, 2011 05:23 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
A rule that doesn't make sense to me, why does equipment that is turned into creatures lose the ability to equip?

Other Artifacts don't lose their abilities if i turn them into 5/5's with Tez, i can still tap things with my tumble magnet if he's a 5/5


Simple answer is that you can't do it because the Comp Rules say you can't

quote:
Originally posted by Comprehensive Rules:
301.5c An Equipment that’s also a creature can’t equip a creature. An Equipment that loses the
subtype “Equipment” can’t equip a creature. An Equipment can’t equip itself. An Equipment
that equips an illegal or nonexistent permanent becomes unattached from that permanent but
remains on the battlefield. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)

Note that you can still activate the equip ability, it just won't have any effect when it would resolve (if I remember correctly, it's considered countered on resolution by game rules). So for example, you could still use an animated Piston Sledge as a sacrifice outlet, but it's not going to end up equipping something.

 
orcishartillery
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posted July 17, 2011 12:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for orcishartillery Send a private message to orcishartillery Click to send orcishartillery an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
A rule that doesn't make sense to me, why does equipment that is turned into creatures lose the ability to equip?

Because having a creature attached to another creature could easily lead to confusion and miscommunication, so it's better to just not allow it.

For example:

When a player taps a creature to attack, they often turn any attached auras or equipment sideways as well, because it's convenient and it usually doesn't matter. But what if one of those equipment is also a creature?

Picture two equipment on the battlefield, both of which have been turned into creatures, one of top of the other. Which one is attached to which?

Note that an equipment that has been turned into a creature doesn't actually lose the Equip ability. Rather, as the ability resolves, nothing happens. (The ability is not countered, it just doesn't do anything.)

 
Shadows
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posted July 19, 2011 12:02 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Shadows Click Here to Email Shadows Send a private message to Shadows Click to send Shadows an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
EDH question:

I have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play. Player gives me control over Celestial Dawn (via his general). What exactly happens?

Also, question regarding Ponder as a few people were arguing about this. You aren't able to shuffle your library according to the oracle text. However on the card it states you may shuffle it. Which one is correct and if you AREN'T able to shuffle, why would they print that on the card? I'm probably misunderstanding something, so I just wanted to clear it up.

Thanks.

 
thror
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posted July 19, 2011 12:20 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Shadows:
EDH question:

I have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play. Player gives me control over Celestial Dawn (via his general). What exactly happens?

Also, question regarding Ponder as a few people were arguing about this. You aren't able to shuffle your library according to the oracle text. However on the card it states you may shuffle it. Which one is correct and if you AREN'T able to shuffle, why would they print that on the card? I'm probably misunderstanding something, so I just wanted to clear it up.

Thanks.


Are you sure you mean ponder, and not Impulse?? The only note in oracle about ponder is "If you choose to shuffle your library, that includes the three cards you just looked at and put back on top of it."

Impulse was printed twice, once with and once without 'shuffle' text. Putting them on the bottom in any order and then shuffling doesnt really make sense, so the shuffle part was dropped.

EDIT: Celestial dawn works like Blood Moon. It turns all your lands into Land - Plains, and strips them of the rest of their abilities. So your urborg will be Legendary Land - Plains, T: add W to your mana pool. Nothing more. (A more detailed answer is available, but it is pretty deep into the comp rules)

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[Edited 2 times, lastly by thror on July 19, 2011]

 
psilence6k
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posted July 20, 2011 09:06 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for psilence6k Click Here to Email psilence6k Send a private message to psilence6k Click to send psilence6k an Instant MessageVisit psilence6k's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
2 Questions!

1) If my opponent has a regenerating creature, and I "turn to frog" it, can he put up a regeneration shield in response and still be able to regenerate even though he loses all abilities? (AKA: Does he also lose the regeneration shield when turned into a frog? lol)

2) If I play a turn 2 Riddlesmith, then a memnite discarding a vengevine, would I be able to bring back the vengevine since both the vengevines trigger and the riddlsmiths discard both happen "when you cast" the spells?

Thank you!
Carl

 
Meddling Pimp
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posted July 20, 2011 10:17 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Meddling Pimp Click Here to Email Meddling Pimp Send a private message to Meddling Pimp Click to send Meddling Pimp an Instant MessageVisit Meddling Pimp's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by psilence6k:
2 Questions!

1) If my opponent has a regenerating creature, and I "turn to frog" it, can he put up a regeneration shield in response and still be able to regenerate even though he loses all abilities? (AKA: Does he also lose the regeneration shield when turned into a frog? lol)


The shield will stay and still work.


quote:
2) If I play a turn 2 Riddlesmith, then a memnite discarding a vengevine, would I be able to bring back the vengevine since both the vengevines trigger and the riddlsmiths discard both happen "when you cast" the spells?

No. The Vengevine wasn't in the gy when you cast the Memnite.

 
marriedwithchildren
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posted July 20, 2011 11:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for marriedwithchildren Click Here to Email marriedwithchildren Send a private message to marriedwithchildren Click to send marriedwithchildren an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View marriedwithchildren's Have/Want ListView marriedwithchildren's Have/Want List
how much mana do I get when:

I have a Caged Sun in play naming Swamp; Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth (All my lands are Swamps); and Mirri's Wake.

I tap my swamp for 1 and get 2 because of Caged Sun, and then Mirri's wake say's I get 2 more right?

 
Kyzneg
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posted July 20, 2011 11:06 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by marriedwithchildren:
how much mana do I get when:

I have a Caged Sun in play naming Swamp; Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth (All my lands are Swamps); and Mirri's Wake.

I tap my swamp for 1 and get 2 because of Caged Sun, and then Mirri's wake say's I get 2 more right?


Nope, You'd get 3 mana total for each swamp you tapped in this scenario. Keep in mind that both Caged Sun and Mirari's Wake specify that you add 1 mana (of either the color chosen for Caged Sun, or a type that land produced for Mirari's Wake), they don't double it.

 
MeddlingMage
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posted July 21, 2011 02:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for MeddlingMage Click Here to Email MeddlingMage Send a private message to MeddlingMage Click to send MeddlingMage an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View MeddlingMage's Have/Want ListView MeddlingMage's Have/Want List
If I have a Knight of the Reliquary in play, and I cast Armageddon, can I tap the Knight in response,sac a land, to get say a fetch land after the geddon resolves?
Or does it come into play immediately and go to the GY as well?

~MM

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caquaa
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posted July 21, 2011 02:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
If I have a Knight of the Reliquary in play, and I cast Armageddon, can I tap the Knight in response,sac a land, to get say a fetch land after the geddon resolves?
Or does it come into play immediately and go to the GY as well?

~MM


just put things on the stack, then resolve them.
Geddon on the stack
knight activation on the stack
knight activation resolves putting a land into play
geddon resolves blowing up all lands.

 
helpmehelpyou
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posted July 21, 2011 05:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for helpmehelpyou Click Here to Email helpmehelpyou Send a private message to helpmehelpyou Click to send helpmehelpyou an Instant MessageVisit helpmehelpyou's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View helpmehelpyou's Have/Want ListView helpmehelpyou's Have/Want List
omen machine + artisan of kozilek


do I get to return a guy or not?
i assume it does.. but wanna double check

 
joz
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posted July 21, 2011 05:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for joz Click Here to Email joz Send a private message to joz Click to send joz an Instant MessageVisit joz's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by helpmehelpyou:
omen machine + artisan of kozilek


do I get to return a guy or not?
i assume it does.. but wanna double check


Yes it works.

As long as whatever ability is being used to play the eldrazi says "cast", the abilities trigger. Same for Demigod of Revenge.

doens't work for things that say "cast from hand"

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mattw
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posted July 23, 2011 05:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mattw Click Here to Email mattw Send a private message to mattw Click to send mattw an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mattw's Have/Want ListView mattw's Have/Want List
i was playing magic online the other day and I had a Sheoldred in play and my opponent had a Phyrexian Swarmlord. At the beginning of his upkeep he had to sac his swarmlord then he got his token.

I was just curious as to how or why it got put on the stack that way, like he could've got his 1 token then sac'd it if it was the other way right?

 

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