EDH/Commander Discussion : Part Deux - Magic Online Trading League Bulletin Board

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Author	Topic: EDH/Commander Discussion : Part Deux
joz Banned	posted June 07, 2011 03:13 PM quote: Originally posted by AlmostGrown: 'Slinga probably deleted it Lets gather in a mob and hunt slinga down till he undeletes it? __________________ Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue? Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would.
Sovarius Member	posted June 07, 2011 10:40 PM Best counterspells in the format? Say maybe top 10 or 15. I am guessing at some point the spells stop bieng that great and you have to settle for more copies. Obviously Force and Mana Drain are still good, and Pact of Negation. Edit: Also best black kill/removal spells? If i'm not asking too much. Also i don't mean wrath effects, or Massacre effects. Also not even Plague Wind. Something targets only what you want it to hit. I'm enjoying Ashes to Ashes and Reckless Spite a great deal. Would really like to get my hands on a Hex and still somehow i have not. It seems realllly fun Also edit: The Upcoming Bannings is not deleted, scroll down. [Edited 2 times, lastly by Sovarius on June 07, 2011]
joz Banned	posted June 07, 2011 10:48 PM quote: Originally posted by Sovarius: Best counterspells in the format? Say maybe top 10 or 15. I am guessing at some point the spells stop bieng that great and you have to settle for more copies. Obviously Force and Mana Drain are still good, and Pact of Negation. Desertion Hinder Rewind Brine Seer Controvert Cryptic Command Declaration of Naught Decree of Silence (+ hex parasite, or other counter removing permanents) Discombobulate Dismal Failure Dismiss Dissipate Draining Whelk Dromar's Charm Ertai, Wizard Adept Familiar's Ruse Fervent Denial Foil Forbid Grip of Amnesia Hisoka, Minamo Sensei Last Word Martyr of Frost Mystic Snake Nix Patron Wizard Perplex Put Away Spell Burst Spelljack Stoic Rebuttal Suffocating Blast Syncopate Traumatic Visions Voidmage Apprentice Voidmage Prodigy Voidslime __________________ Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue? Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would.
Sovarius Member	posted June 07, 2011 11:08 PM I'm pleased with the immediate response and the effort but a lot of those are creatures and not counterspells. And the extra effects on something like Dromar's Charm doesn't make paying WUB good for a counter. And you missed Counterspell. And Nix is extremely narrow. And it's odd that the list is totally alphabetized. Etc Etc Remove Soul/Psychic Barrier/Essence Scatter also seem popular. Spells can be powerfull but as far as i can tell this format is mostly won with creatures.
joz Banned	posted June 07, 2011 11:16 PM quote: Originally posted by Sovarius: I'm pleased with the immediate response and the effort but a lot of those are creatures and not counterspells. And the extra effects on something like Dromar's Charm doesn't make paying WUB good for a counter. And you missed Counterspell. And Nix is extremely narrow. And it's odd that the list is totally alphabetized. Etc Etc Remove Soul/Psychic Barrier/Essence Scatter also seem popular. Spells can be powerfull but as far as i can tell this format is mostly won with creatures. I would asume that counterspell is an autoinclude, like FOW, Dissipate and Last Word. Also, you said counters, I denote counters as both instants, and creatures with flash/morph/activated abilities that function as counterspells. __________________ Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue? Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would.
eXtremeEagle Member	posted June 07, 2011 11:26 PM quote: Originally posted by Sovarius: I'm pleased with the immediate response and the effort but a lot of those are creatures and not counterspells. Some of the best counterspells in EDH are ones that are attached to a creature. Instead of focusing on the lowest-cost or easiest to play counters, it's better to look for ones that you can get double-duty from. Versatility is important. __________________ The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.
Swift2210 Member	posted June 08, 2011 12:03 AM All the counters in the world won't win you a game in a FFA. One on one is a different story, but you simply can't counter everything the other 4-5 players are casting. Not to mention if they are all green, you've got to deal with graveyard recursion. Green is awesome in EDH. Blue tutors and counters are cool but Green has two of the most powerful cards in EDH: Survival and Sylvan.
TimeBeing Member	posted June 08, 2011 12:32 AM Forgot oe of the best because it don't counter just a spell it counters everything TimeStop
choco man Member	posted June 08, 2011 01:48 AM quote: Originally posted by joz: Controvert Declaration of Naught Decree of Silence (+ hex parasite, or other counter removing permanents) Discombobulate Dismal Failure Dismiss Dissipate Dromar's Charm Ertai, Wizard Adept Familiar's Ruse Fervent Denial Foil Forbid Grip of Amnesia Hisoka, Minamo Sensei Last Word Martyr of Frost Nix Perplex Put Away Spell Burst Stoic Rebuttal Suffocating Blast Syncopate Traumatic Visions Voidmage Apprentice So this is proof that you're from MTGSalvation, right? quote: Originally posted by TimeBeing: Forgot one of the best because it don't counter just a spell it counters everything: Time Stop I love Time Stop. I have a page full of foil Tenth Edition Time Stops. But for 6 mana, it's not worth it.
Sovarius Member	posted June 08, 2011 02:02 AM Everyone has valid points i already know, i'm just specifying spells that counter spells. They are counterspells, not cards that can counter spells. Not asking if counters are good in multiplayer or if i should look for versatility. Not busting anyone's balls, just specific. Time Stop is funny when someone at the table is a dbag and everyone's ganging up on him.
nderdog Moderator	posted June 08, 2011 07:48 AM Finally drawing up a list for my Momir Vig Elves deck. I haven't even really searched for non-land, non-creature cards too much yet, and already have a lot of pruning to do! I'm beginning to think I won't be able to get a second deck for Nikki built in time for the launch party. __________________ There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here! All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please! Report rules violations. Remember the Auctions Board!
joz Banned	posted June 08, 2011 12:53 PM quote: Originally posted by choco man: So this is proof that you're from MTGSalvation, right? I'm not from MTGsavlation, I despise that pit of inadequacy with all my cold black-hearted soulesness. I forgot: Time Stop Ertai's Meddling Faerie Trickery Mindbreak Trap __________________ Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue? Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would.
nderdog Moderator	posted June 08, 2011 05:35 PM N0oB time! Stupid question...with fetch lands, in a Momir Vig deck, can I run something like a Scalding Tarn? I'm still a bit unclear on color identities and such for things like that. The Tarn doesn't have any symbols for red mana, so I want to say it would be allowed, but I want to be sure. __________________ There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here! All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please! Report rules violations. Remember the Auctions Board!
sammyt125 Member	posted June 08, 2011 05:37 PM quote: Originally posted by nderdog: N0oB time! Stupid question...with fetch lands, in a Momir Vig deck, can I run something like a Scalding Tarn? I'm still a bit unclear on color identities and such for things like that. The Tarn doesn't have any symbols for red mana, so I want to say it would be allowed, but I want to be sure. Indeed you can. You can also use Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in any deck if the need arises.
joz Banned	posted June 08, 2011 05:38 PM quote: Originally posted by nderdog: N0oB time! Stupid question...with fetch lands, in a Momir Vig deck, can I run something like a Scalding Tarn? I'm still a bit unclear on color identities and such for things like that. The Tarn doesn't have any symbols for red mana, so I want to say it would be allowed, but I want to be sure. Yes you can. Simply put, your general's color identity is limited to the mana symbols present on the card. Color words and basic-land types do not count as part of its color identity. Color identity of a card is limited to mana symbols, color words and basic-land types do not count towards color identity. As long as there are no colored mana symbols on a land it can be put into any deck. Scalding Tarn and all other fetch lands are considered colorless. __________________ Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue? Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would. [Edited 1 times, lastly by joz on June 08, 2011]
Sovarius Member	posted June 08, 2011 06:40 PM I wish you weren't allowed to use offcolor fetches. Eh. So what about black removal?
joz Banned	posted June 08, 2011 06:49 PM quote: Originally posted by Sovarius: I wish you weren't allowed to use offcolor fetches. Eh. So what about black removal? what about it? __________________ Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue? Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would.
Sovarius Member	posted June 08, 2011 07:15 PM From my other post, about the best counterspells, i asked for suggestions on the best black removal/destroy spells. That specifically aren't wrath or massacre effects (spot removal, even if that one spell has multiple spots like Hex). Such things as Go For the Throat, Rend Flesh, Eyeblight's Ending. But not like Damnation/Infest.
iccarus Member	posted June 08, 2011 07:42 PM quote: Originally posted by Sovarius: Such things as Go For the Throat, Rend Flesh, Eyeblight's Ending. But not like Damnation/Infest. Not all are targeted, but do a good job at keeping the board clear. Innocent Blood Barter in Blood Attrition Gravepact The Abyss __________________ Wisconsin - smells like dairy air!
Sovarius Member	posted June 08, 2011 08:47 PM Wow, i really needed to hear of Attrition, thanks. That's my whole Zombies deck there, insta board wipe by sacrificing my own stuff (Butcher of Malakir and Grave Pact being in play) with only about a bajillion reanimation tactics. The others i do know of and have/have in wants list. But i still mean your basic one-shot uses for monoblack. I like the cards you listed but i don't play enough creatures in monoblack to go all willy-nilly kill my own crap.
joz Banned	posted June 08, 2011 09:23 PM Plague Wind Decree of Pain Overwhelming Forces Rain of Daggers Do or Die Mutilate Damnation Life's Finale Forced March Hellfire Reiver Demon Season of the Witch Spreading Plague Tsabo's Decree Bane of the Living Havoc Demon Ichor Explosion Infest Sudden Spoiling + Infest Kagemaro, First to Suffer Massacre Planar Despair Oblivion Stone Nevinyrral's Disk Abyssal Gatekeeper Fleshbag Marauder Extinction All is Dust Curse of the Cabal Choice of Damnations Living Death/Living End (can be used as a mass removal spell too!) I may be forgetting a few....I havn't looked at my black edh in a while (blushes*) Also: Sudden Death Cannibalize Profane Command Urborg Justice Seal of Doom Chill to the Bone Also, any black EDH needs to include the following: Yawgmoth's Will Necropotence Promise of Power Temporal Extortion Bosium Strip Contamination Hecatomb Phyrexian Reclamation Beacon of Unrest Liliana Vess Xenic Poltergeist And a full suit of tutors, I suggest: Beseech the Queen Demonic Tutor Diabolic Tutor Demonic Collusions Diabolic Intent Citanul Flute Also, autoinclude Sculpting Steel. __________________ Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue? Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would. [Edited 3 times, lastly by joz on June 08, 2011]
Sovarius Member	posted June 08, 2011 09:56 PM Still appreciate the effort and thought, but also very specific about spot-removal and not board wipe. That time wasn't very vague. Why Sculpting Steel as an autoinclude?
joz Banned	posted June 08, 2011 10:05 PM quote: Originally posted by Sovarius: Still appreciate the effort and thought, but also very specific about spot-removal and not board wipe. That time wasn't very vague. Why Sculpting Steel as an autoinclude? Because, no matter what, there is always an artifact worth copying. As for black spot removal...(not racist at all) re-usable creatures are the best bet, Visara, Avatar of Woe, Kalitas, Grul Daz Assasin, Royal Assasin, otherwise: Ashes to Ashes Grasp of Darkness Sudden Death Dismember Chill to the Bone Cannibalize are the only spot-removal I'd consider. For a black EDH, you need to follow one of a few specific strategies: Voltron, with generals like Korlash, Skittles, etc... Control, with generals like Kiku, Visara, Kalitas, etc.. and..thats really about it. Going control means lots of board wipe, a few good tutors, high-quality reanimation and card advantage generators. YOu want to wrath, draw a new wrath to replace it, and drop a Skeletal Vampire to beat face and make tokens with for a few turns. Going Voltron/Aggro...is equipments, some wraths (but not as many) a few lower-quality removals to get blockers out of the way and a few more misc tutors to fish up winning equipments and spells. And combo...going infinite with any number of janky, degenerate, and not-fun at all methods. Cabal Coffers, Deserted Temple, Rings of Brighthearth being my method, and then powering into large, repeated draws of Promise of Power+Bosium Strip; or Necropotence. Thank god Bargain was banned (I hate you RC,) otherwise i'd never play any other color. Also, it doesn't matter if your creatures die in black, there five or six good ways to get them back. + any other lower quality ways... Beacon of Unrest Volroth's Stronghold Nezumi Graverobber Yawgmoth's Will Phyrexian Reclamation Reito Lantern (puts them back into your library.) Let me give you an example, my monoblack with Kiku as my general plays like this: mana, wrath, wrath, wrath, card draw, land search, wrath, drop a threat, let it get blown up, wrath, drop an artifact, drop an enchantment, wrath. Tutor for combo peices, wrath, tutor agian for a quick fix, wrath. Win in the orange zone with a dozen cards in hand, a board full of everyones graveyards. and four other players playing with blue cards. The less creatures your EDH deck has, the more WRATH effects you should be running. And a few ways to get creatures back that aren't affected by those wraths, spells and permanents. __________________ Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue? Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would. [Edited 4 times, lastly by joz on June 08, 2011]
eXtremeEagle Member	posted June 09, 2011 12:08 AM What I would consider for black spot-removal: Slaughter Pact Vendetta Doom Blade Go for the Throat Hero's Demise Reckless Spite Befoul Slaughter Snuff Out Spread the Sickness Phthisis Not saying I would use every one of those in every mono-B I made, but those would be the ones I would consider. __________________ The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.
Havoc Demon Member	posted June 09, 2011 01:34 AM Find The Abyss if you can afford it, it's the closest thing to spot removal I play other than Profane Command. __________________ Most References in Massachusetts 85th All-time Support my friend's store: http://www.tabletoparena.com [Edited 1 times, lastly by Havoc Demon on June 09, 2011]

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