|
Author
|
Topic: EDH/Commander Discussion : Part Deux
|
JesusChristMD
Member
|
posted March 23, 2011 08:18 PM
      
Sweet. I started this.
Been playing Teeg for ~2 weeks now. I like that by just not playing Teeg on turn 2, my deck is much more casual.
__________________
Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore"
|
joz
Banned
|
posted March 23, 2011 08:24 PM
I call teeg "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN"And then I sudden death the little bugger. I have recently started a Dakkon Blackblade budget EDH (cards I have lying around) and have been slowly building it up into a wrath-machine (yes, it likes to wrath the board.) I'm also working an a group-fun (not group-hug) monored EDH; that hopefully is less mean (cruel and sadistic) then my other 4 monocolor EDHs.
Also, don't touch my generals.
|
jshields
Member
|
posted March 23, 2011 09:20 PM
when I first started playing EDH (I mean commander  ), I really did not know which colors I really wanted to play, but have been in love with Survival of the Fittest based green // black reanimator decks ever since I first played with one when I first played magic around 12 years ago. I thought Doran the Siege tower would be a good fit to start, but there were sooooo very many great affordable mana cost cards worthy of a red and blue splash that I finally switched to a 5-color EDH deck with my current general (Scion of the Ur-Dragon) really just as a placeholder for a great deck. My current deck is usually very powerful and is for the most part a green black reanimator deck that revolves around Survival of the Fittest // Hermit Druid // Fauna Shaman combos with Living Death, etc... The best part is that I just love the double take look on my opponents faces when I play a crap 5-color general like Atogatog or a completely unrelated 5-color general like Sliver Queen in my non-sliver deck that then scares the bajeebers out of anyone I am playing against when I crack out real old-school dual lands!
BTW, is this possibly a post where we can list and discuss our decks + how to improve upon what we have? I remember there was a similar forum for this here, but it seems like almost nobody is ever there to discuss competitive EDH decks.
  |
joz
Banned
|
posted March 23, 2011 09:59 PM
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/index.php
|
caquaa
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 03:57 AM
 
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
BTW, the "rules committee" or better known as "ruiners of the format" article on Starcity goes pretty far in showing why they shouldn't be in charge for the format.
interesting you say this, care to explain? If your view is that, "such and such card is broken and needs banned," but isn't there an extremely large list of cards? Are you doing what you should to protect yourself against problematic cards?
|
stab107
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 05:56 AM
Also interested in your reasoning, Volcannon. quote:
Originally posted by jshields:
BTW, is this possibly a post where we can list and discuss our decks + how to improve upon what we have? I remember there was a similar forum for this here, but it seems like almost nobody is ever there to discuss competitive EDH decks.
Check out the forums on MTGS as well as the official boards Joz directed you to. There's a pretty large community over on Salvation. Just be aware that not all feedback you receive will be useful. Feel free to post it here as well. This would be the right thread for it.
|
CoupDeGrace
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 06:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by joz:
I have recently started a Dakkon Blackblade budget EDH (cards I have lying around) and have been slowly building it up into a wrath-machine (yes, it likes to wrath the board.)
lol ! Dakkon Blackblade is good general based on the colors, espically black and blue. I rather play Thraximundar :X
[Edited 1 times, lastly by CoupDeGrace on March 24, 2011]
|
Volcanon
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 06:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
interesting you say this, care to explain? If your view is that, "such and such card is broken and needs banned," but isn't there an extremely large list of cards? Are you doing what you should to protect yourself against problematic cards?
The people posting on the starcity forums and probably the mtgs have summed it up well: His justification for banning/unbanning is "we thought it was best." There's no proof they tested it at all. There's no decklist showing why Kokusho in a 100 card highlander deck is broken over multiple strip mines a turn with Crucible or adding 20xG to your mana pool with Cradle. He also says implicitly that "people who play to win aren't invited." Which is silly: Spikes will just play what's the best allowed card. Why do they say Emerakul is unfair and unfun even though it can be briberied, but Blightsteel is fair because it can be briberied and acquired? They continue to refuse to even post a 1v1 banlist. Yes you can play house rules. Good luck going outside your usual circle of friends with a deck with Library in it. He doesn't even mention why Workshop isn't banned, but Library is. (So of course I will take advantage of this and run my workshop in Memnarch EDH). And so on.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Volcanon on March 24, 2011]
|
AlmostGrown
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 06:48 AM
My current EDH general is Karn. He's geared for multiplayer and the long game, and as such he has some interesting "combos". It's more synergy, but then again I did it on purpose :P Unlike ~50% of the people who play EDH, my general is an integral part of my strategy. I'm currently building Oona, Queen of the Fae for 1v1 and she's looking to be combotastic with a hint of control backup.__________________
send ref checks, paypal payment or any questions to the email in my profile!
Serra Angel Count: 268
Nightmare Count: 103
DCI Rules Advisor
PlasteredDragon - Gone but not forgotten
|
caquaa
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 08:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
His justification for banning/unbanning is "we thought it was best." There's no proof they tested it at all
If you can't think of a simple deck list where this is broken in a multiplayer format, you're doing it wrong. You seem to be inclined to think that EDH is meant to be 1v1 and it isn't. If you want to play that way its fine, but you're creating your own problems.quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
There's no decklist showing why Kokusho in a 100 card highlander deck is broken over multiple strip mines a turn with Crucible or adding 20xG to your mana pool with Cradle.
[/B]
No one said its "more broken". Its simply easily abuse and leads to games that can be unfun. I'm sure stasis sucks the fun out of the format too, but Koko is one that seemed like an auto-include if you're in the color. Have you tried playing artifact mana so lando doesn't hurt so much? Do you play things like shred memory to stop crucible/strip lock? maybe even tormod's crypt. UNless the green player is dropping all 20 creatures in 1 turn, I'm failing to see how they are allowed to get to the point where cradle produces 20? If they are comboing off, do something about it other then complaining. There are cards that handle every situation, included the previous mentioned stripmine. Thats why those cards are played even in friendly games, you have to stop that stuff from going down.quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
Why do they say Emerakul is unfair and unfun even though it can be briberied, but Blightsteel is fair because it can be briberied and acquired?
annihilator. Even if you manage to survive an attack, annihilator is brutal. I believe the banning on him mentioned the rules committee didn't see a huge issue with him because of bribery, but it was the community that was having a huge issue with him. He simply wasn't fun to play against. I can point all kinds of fun removal at BSC, or even borrow it for a turn. Emrakul has much fewer options, but I gladly played those to stay in the game instead of randomly losing to Emrakul out of no where.quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
They continue to refuse to even post a 1v1 banlist
Again, I'm not sure why I multiplayer format is requiring a 1v1 ban list. If you are having problems playing 1v1, its because the format isn't designed for it. EDH bombs like mind's eye and vicious shadows can be terrible in a 1v1 format. You have standard, extended, legacy, vintage, draft, etc for 1v1. If you want to play the multiplayer format, just ask a few more people to sit down at the table. Politics help keep things in balance.quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
He doesn't even mention why Workshop isn't banned, but Library is. (So of course I will take advantage of this and run my workshop in Memnarch EDH).
No idea. If I had to take a guess at it, I'd say its the cost factor partially. Yes, I know they are about even cost wise, but library would be something you would need for every EDH deck, while if you threw workshop in every EDH deck it would work out fairly poorly for you. I'd certainly like to be able to use library, but that's because I know its totally unfair.Everyone has a different play style when it comes to EDH. If the group you play with doesn't have a play style that leads to an enjoyable experience, set a decent example and build a fun deck. You'll get worked over a few times, then it will be less fun for people to play against... hopefully they build something more suitable. If they don't, you can always find a new play group or use mtgo.
|
Tha Gunslinga
Moderator
|
posted March 24, 2011 08:19 AM
Emrakul was a recurring uncounterable Time Walk with Crystal Shard or Erratic Portal. The other abilities were just a free bonus.__________________
Ebay problems?
File a claim, leave a neg, buy on MOTL.
|
caquaa
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 08:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
Emrakul was a recurring uncounterable Time Walk with Crystal Shard or Erratic Portal. The other abilities were just a free bonus.
that too. He was a beast. I was playing fairly friendly EDH decks until people refused to stop abusing him. In came 3x timewarp, identity crisis, etc. I have cards that aren't fun to play against, I just choose not to. Its good incentive for others to not decide to play abusing/boring decks. Also have grand arbiter prison on standby just in case.
|
Volcanon
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 11:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Volcanon:
His justification for banning/unbanning is "we thought it was best." There's no proof they tested it at all
If you can't think of a simple deck list where this is broken in a multiplayer format, you're doing it wrong. You seem to be inclined to think that EDH is meant to be 1v1 and it isn't. If you want to play that way its fine, but you're creating your own problems.quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
There's no decklist showing why Kokusho in a 100 card highlander deck is broken over multiple strip mines a turn with Crucible or adding 20xG to your mana pool with Cradle.
No one said its "more broken". Its simply easily abuse and leads to games that can be unfun. I'm sure stasis sucks the fun out of the format too, but Koko is one that seemed like an auto-include if you're in the color. Have you tried playing artifact mana so lando doesn't hurt so much? Do you play things like shred memory to stop crucible/strip lock? maybe even tormod's crypt. UNless the green player is dropping all 20 creatures in 1 turn, I'm failing to see how they are allowed to get to the point where cradle produces 20? If they are comboing off, do something about it other then complaining. There are cards that handle every situation, included the previous mentioned stripmine. Thats why those cards are played even in friendly games, you have to stop that stuff from going down.quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:Why do they say Emerakul is unfair and unfun even though it can be briberied, but Blightsteel is fair because it can be briberied and acquired?
annihilator. Even if you manage to survive an attack, annihilator is brutal. I believe the banning on him mentioned the rules committee didn't see a huge issue with him because of bribery, but it was the community that was having a huge issue with him. He simply wasn't fun to play against. I can point all kinds of fun removal at BSC, or even borrow it for a turn. Emrakul has much fewer options, but I gladly played those to stay in the game instead of randomly losing to Emrakul out of no where.quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
They continue to refuse to even post a 1v1 banlist
Again, I'm not sure why I multiplayer format is requiring a 1v1 ban list. If you are having problems playing 1v1, its because the format isn't designed for it. EDH bombs like mind's eye and vicious shadows can be terrible in a 1v1 format. You have standard, extended, legacy, vintage, draft, etc for 1v1. If you want to play the multiplayer format, just ask a few more people to sit down at the table. Politics help keep things in balance.quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:He doesn't even mention why Workshop isn't banned, but Library is. (So of course I will take advantage of this and run my workshop in Memnarch EDH).
No idea. If I had to take a guess at it, I'd say its the cost factor partially. Yes, I know they are about even cost wise, but library would be something you would need for every EDH deck, while if you threw workshop in every EDH deck it would work out fairly poorly for you. I'd certainly like to be able to use library, but that's because I know its totally unfair.Everyone has a different play style when it comes to EDH. If the group you play with doesn't have a play style that leads to an enjoyable experience, set a decent example and build a fun deck. You'll get worked over a few times, then it will be less fun for people to play against... hopefully they build something more suitable. If they don't, you can always find a new play group or use mtgo.[/QUOTE] For 1v1: Would it really be so hard to say "We support this as a mulitplayer format, but we recognize that some people like to play 1v1. So we will link you to this ban list. We recommend you go to this community to discuss 1v1 (and then point to the MTGS 1v1 forum). Or just say: "In 1v1, we recommend you remove sol ring and mana crypt, and you can use these cards:..."
|
Volcanon
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 11:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
that too. He was a beast. I was playing fairly friendly EDH decks until people refused to stop abusing him. In came 3x timewarp, identity crisis, etc. I have cards that aren't fun to play against, I just choose not to. Its good incentive for others to not decide to play abusing/boring decks. Also have grand arbiter prison on standby just in case.
Fine. But Blightsteel is a one-hit kill off a turn 2 sneak attack if you don't have a STP or a fog.
|
Havoc Demon
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 12:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
Fine. But Blightsteel is a one-hit kill off a turn 2 sneak attack if you don't have a STP or a fog.
Which is less likely to happen with a 100 card deck full of singletons unless you cheat or aggressively mulligan. And does nothing in multiplayer except make the game one player smaller. __________________
Most References in Massachusetts
87th All-timeSupport my friend's store: http://www.tabletoparena.com
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Havoc Demon on March 24, 2011]
|
joz
Banned
|
posted March 24, 2011 12:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
Fine. But Blightsteel is a one-hit kill off a turn 2 sneak attack if you don't have a STP or a fog.
But BSC can be responded to with path, swords, or a few other select spells. The only way to respond to emrakul is with enchantments (only white and black and blue have that capacity )but you need to also do it at instant speed; which makes it several times harder to deal with then BSC. The Sneak Attack argument is invalid; the chances of getting both in the opening hand and in play for a turn 2 win are to low to consider as a valid argument against Emrakul.
|
Volcanon
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 12:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by joz:
But BSC can be responded to with path, swords, or a few other select spells. The only way to respond to emrakul is with enchantments (only white and black and blue have that capacity )but you need to also do it at instant speed; which makes it several times harder to deal with then BSC. The Sneak Attack argument is invalid; the chances of getting both in the opening hand and in play for a turn 2 win are to low to consider as a valid argument against Emrakul.
Regardless, BSC + Greaves is a one-hit kill and he's hard to remove. Emurakul isn't. If they ban cards based on being "unfun", then I don't see why they woudl that here. Kokopuff doesn't win the game and they banned it. Crucible is exclusively used for strip/wasteland abuse and the unbanned it.
|
WeedIan
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 12:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
Regardless, BSC + Greaves is a one-hit kill and he's hard to remove. Emurakul isn't. If they ban cards based on being "unfun", then I don't see why they woudl that here. Kokopuff doesn't win the game and they banned it. Crucible is exclusively used for strip/wasteland abuse and the unbanned it.
If you have so many problems with the format don't play it  Crucible isn't always used just for strip/wasteland combo. __________________
Member Since 03/28/2001
10000+ posts
3rd in posts in Ontario
15th in posts on MOTL
Top 5 in Refs in Ontario (by people who location posted)
|
Skwirlnutz
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 01:46 PM
So I found out last night that Mimic Vat + Acidic Slime is just mean...I had fun though. 
|
Havoc Demon
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 02:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
If you have so many problems with the format don't play it Crucible isn't always used just for strip/wasteland combo.
I've come to the realization that strip locks don't work in this format, so I pretty much use Crucible to get back Coffers. __________________
Most References in Massachusetts
87th All-timeSupport my friend's store: http://www.tabletoparena.com
|
stab107
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 02:44 PM
Kokusho is banned because it warps the game when it ETB. The game degenerates into a battle over who can recur and sack it most often/fastest, essentially a battle over one card.Emrakul is banned for reasons mentioned by both caquaa and 'slinga above. BSC is not in the same class as these cards. It's far easier to remove than Emrakul, can't be reanimated and the game doesn't degenerate into a fight over one card. Mishra's Workshop could be banned for the fact that it costs a billion dollars but I have only ever seen one player run it in all my games of EDH. It's use is also quite limited so I'm not really sure it needs to be banned (granted, I have never seen anyone abuse it in the same way I have seen someone abuse Kokusho). I mean, if you want to spend $300 on a card for a casual format, be my guest. But most people won't want to do that. Also, Daakkon Blackblade is a sweet choice as a general, thumbs up Joz.
|
WeedIan
Member
|
posted March 24, 2011 09:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stab107:
Kokusho is banned because it warps the game when it ETB. The game degenerates into a battle over who can recur and sack it most often/fastest, essentially a battle over one card.Emrakul is banned for reasons mentioned by both caquaa and 'slinga above. BSC is not in the same class as these cards. It's far easier to remove than Emrakul, can't be reanimated and the game doesn't degenerate into a fight over one card. Mishra's Workshop could be banned for the fact that it costs a billion dollars but I have only ever seen one player run it in all my games of EDH. It's use is also quite limited so I'm not really sure it needs to be banned (granted, I have never seen anyone abuse it in the same way I have seen someone abuse Kokusho). I mean, if you want to spend $300 on a card for a casual format, be my guest. But most people won't want to do that. Also, Daakkon Blackblade is a sweet choice as a general, thumbs up Joz.
If you ban workshop because its expensive then you have to ban Timetwister because its expensive and its really not that good When i was at the Tcgplayer open the one guy was playing an EDH deck and all it did was help everyone it was funny.
__________________
Member Since 03/28/2001
10000+ posts
3rd in posts in Ontario
15th in posts on MOTL
Top 5 in Refs in Ontario (by people who location posted)
|
caquaa
Member
|
posted March 25, 2011 02:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
When i was at the Tcgplayer open the one guy was playing an EDH deck and all it did was help everyone it was funny.
group hug EDH decks are odd. We had someone build one here locally. If I was trying to kill someone he'd help them out and it got annoying, so I ended up killing him first. Kind of odd, but its what consistently happened. He ended up taking it apart. I think he felt he should be able to sit back and mess with the game by helping everyone, but didn't take into account he needed to protect himself so the deck didn't end up being what he wanted it to be.
|
iccarus
Member
|
posted March 25, 2011 07:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Havoc Demon:
I've come to the realization that strip locks don't work in this format, so I pretty much use Crucible to get back Coffers.
Pretty much the only reason the card is in my Maga deck at all. I decided to focus on foiling out my favorite EDH deck (Vorosh). Bonus is that many of the cards will also work in the Kraj deck I've been working on, so I can just do that one instead if needed. I can't believe how much some random foils have jumped in price that are only good in EDH. $25+ foil decree of pain? Really? __________________
Wisconsin - smells like dairy air!
|
Sovarius
Member
|
posted March 25, 2011 11:10 PM
Is trying to win with 40 overall damage more efficient than 21 commander damage? I suppose it depends on your general. But just wondering if there is a good amount of consistency in trying to focus on one creature for beating face. Maybe an evasive commander like Xiahou Dun, but is it actually a strategy to equip and enchant the hell out of the commander?Seems like it would be an interesting mode of play; only general damage counts. __________________
If you can make/print proxies, i will trade for them.
Also looking for Microprose MTG computer game. Will trade for that or consider buying for cheap. Please pm
| |
Topic Closed
Magic Online Trading League Bulletin Board
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
