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Originally posted by WeedIan:
I really like that new Mythic guy as a General just because of his Flavour.

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I'm reworking my 5-color 'black' zombies tribal deck right now to include Innistrad. Basically a lot of benefitting from sacrificing (or punishing others for my loss) and token generating and reanimating whatever i please.
The phrase "5-color black deck" means every card is black, but it can also be blue/white/red/green. With that in mind, has anyone got good suggestions for multicolored cards that good with reanimating/sacrificing/graveyard play?

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Originally posted by Sovarius:

Like with Rooftop Storm?
There's a few cool zombie things in Innistrad, but zombies are already pretty solid.

I'm reworking my 5-color 'black' zombies tribal deck right now to include Innistrad. Basically a lot of benefitting from sacrificing (or punishing others for my loss) and token generating and reanimating whatever i please.
The phrase "5-color black deck" means every card is black, but it can also be blue/white/red/green. With that in mind, has anyone got good suggestions for multicolored cards that good with reanimating/sacrificing/graveyard play?

I've got such things like Necromancer's Covenant, Pyrrhic Revival, Skullbriar, Grimgrin, Grim Feast, Vulturous Zombie, etc.

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What General are you using?

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
Karona, False God.
Fun and tribal like the deck's supposed to be.

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Originally posted by Skwirlnutz:
Got my girlfriend's EDH deck finished recently, went yesterday for a few games and she destroyed us all. Gotta rethink my strategy now. Anyone ever use Phyrexian Revoker/Pithing Needle in edh for Generals? Seems good in theory how does it work in play?

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Speaking of, why exactly is Iona not banned when Kokopuff is? Drain a lot of life or render game unplayable for monocolor deck? Hmmm.

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Because its meant to be a multiplayer format and unless everyone is playing Mono coloured she isn't that great.

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
Because its meant to be a multiplayer format and unless everyone is playing Mono coloured she isn't that great.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
It's still only usable as a "jerk card". It's only worse when there's two decks that are main in those colors.

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There are a certain class of cards which are "jerk" cards which are justifiably left unbanned.

For instance, land destruction is mostly perceived as a "jerk" move. It does hurt everybody a lot. But it's necessary to keep everyone deck-building honest. However, Sundering Titan approaches ban-level worthiness to me.

Another entire class of "jerk" level cards are Scrambleverse, Grip of Chaos, etc. No one plays those cards other than to just screw with people. They offer little to no strategic advantages.

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Originally posted by choco man:
There are a certain class of cards which are "jerk" cards which are justifiably left unbanned.

For instance, land destruction is mostly perceived as a "jerk" move. It does hurt everybody a lot. But it's necessary to keep everyone deck-building honest. However, Sundering Titan approaches ban-level worthiness to me.

Another entire class of "jerk" level cards are Scrambleverse, Grip of Chaos, etc. No one plays those cards other than to just screw with people. They offer little to no strategic advantages.

Iona does cost 9 and is in a color with weak ramp potential and low reanimation enablers (decent reanimation spells/effects, but low discard and sac-outlets).

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... In a format with every mana fixing card ever printed. Nothing saying she can't be played in a non-mono-white deck. She can easily hit play turn 4 or earlier.

Iona locks people out of their decks. Against some color combos it might as well say "I win". I shouldn't have to have brittle effigy or something in hand in order to be able to play cards. And even if I did, they would just counter it or something (because griefers, or people who actually enjoy draw-go, guaranteed play blue).

Ironically the natural foil to decks that play Iona is LD. My meta is so full of griefers that I pretty much have to build a geddon deck.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Sundering Titan wrecks somebody's mana base. Iona is "target player can't play spells". Which one is more powerful?

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Sundering Titan...and it's not even close.

I rarely see Iona lock everyone out. And even if she did, powerful doesn't equal ban-worthy. EDH is also a format where almost every artifact is legal, too. Duplicant, Oblivion Stone, Nevinyrral's Disk, All is Dust are all regulars. Having so many cards legal also provides strong incentives for multi-color decks.

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Originally posted by Skwirlnutz:
She's playing akroma, I play Kiki jiki. It's good thing her general isn't linvala or Iona...

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Originally posted by choco man:
Sundering Titan...and it's not even close.

I rarely see Iona lock everyone out. And even if she did, powerful doesn't equal ban-worthy. EDH is also a format where almost every artifact is legal, too. Duplicant, Oblivion Stone, Nevinyrral's Disk, All is Dust are all regulars. Having so many cards legal also provides strong incentives for multi-color decks.

The RC does respect her a lot though. Painter's Servant is banned- for Grindstone and Iona. Which I think sucks, because I had a sweet, fun Jaya Ballard deck with a foil Painter's Servant built prior to the ban.

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Library of Alexandria is nowhere near as powerful as a card that says "you lose" and it's banned... for some unknown reason. Kokusho is banned because it made games unfun. How much more unfun is "you can't play"?

Just because there are artifacts doesn't mean I'll have them in hand or in play. Nev's disk is delayed a turn. O-Stone requires 8. Brittle Effigy requires 5. All assuming they don't counter/shatter these. Duplicant costs 6. All is Dust costs 7. All of the artifact solutions cost a lot and in the mean time they get massive card advantage off the fact that you can't do anything. It's the ultimate "end of the digestive system" card. Why do I have to give up playing monoblack because some idiot reanimates Iona turn 1, and not even with a god hand by 2-4?

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Library of Alexandria is nowhere near as powerful as a card that says "you lose" and it's banned... for some unknown reason. Kokusho is banned because it made games unfun. How much more unfun is "you can't play"?

Just because there are artifacts doesn't mean I'll have them in hand or in play. Nev's disk is delayed a turn. O-Stone requires 8. Brittle Effigy requires 5. All assuming they don't counter/shatter these. Duplicant costs 6. All is Dust costs 7. All of the artifact solutions cost a lot and in the mean time they get massive card advantage off the fact that you can't do anything. It's the ultimate "end of the digestive system" card. Why do I have to give up playing monoblack because some idiot reanimates Iona turn 1, and not even with a god hand by 2-4?

Oh and the RC are full of "discarded fecal matter". They are the reason we had all those terrible Alara generals in the Legends FtV. And they still refuse to even post a link to a viable 1v1 list. And they have LoA banned and other cards that are far less powerful in a format like EDH over things like Iona and Sundering Titan.

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Library i think is banned due to $$ but it should be unbanned.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Library of Alexandria is nowhere near as powerful as a card that says "you lose" and it's banned... for some unknown reason. Kokusho is banned because it made games unfun. How much more unfun is "you can't play"?

Just because there are artifacts doesn't mean I'll have them in hand or in play. Nev's disk is delayed a turn. O-Stone requires 8. Brittle Effigy requires 5. All assuming they don't counter/shatter these. Duplicant costs 6. All is Dust costs 7. All of the artifact solutions cost a lot and in the mean time they get massive card advantage off the fact that you can't do anything. It's the ultimate "end of the digestive system" card. Why do I have to give up playing monoblack because some idiot reanimates Iona turn 1, and not even with a god hand by 2-4?

Oh and the RC are full of "discarded fecal matter". They are the reason we had all those terrible Alara generals in the Legends FtV. And they still refuse to even post a link to a viable 1v1 list. And they have LoA banned and other cards that are far less powerful in a format like EDH over things like Iona and Sundering Titan.

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Honestly, there are a bunch of cards ahead of Iona on the ban ladder. For instance, if you go strictly by why they banned Staff of Domination, silly stuff like Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch should be banned. NO ONE EVER includes those cards other than to mise Kiki-Jiki or Splinter Twin.

And like I said, there are many more unfun cards than just Iona and she doesn't do as much in multiplayer games.

The RC does a pretty good job. I feel the only point of contention on their ban list is how Kokusho is still on it. Their reasoning for it still on it is not consistent with why Sundering Titan is still off it. Either ban Titan or unban Kokusho.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Cards should not be banned for $$. Drain is legal. Crypt is legal. Moat is legal. Twister is legal. Imperial Seal is far more expensive than LoA now. Proxying is rampant. So why LoA?

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It's more of the issue that any deck that could play LoA would want one. With a price tag easily over $100, it would be bad for the format. Some argument could be made about Crypt on that front, but that's still in the double digit range only.

__________________
Wisconsin - smells like dairy air!

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
[B]Cards should not be banned for $$.[B]

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I agree with this.

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Originally posted by iccarus:
It's more of the issue that any deck that could play LoA would want one. With a price tag easily over $100, it would be bad for the format. Some argument could be made about Crypt on that front, but that's still in the double digit range only.

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LoA barely helps most decks. It only really helps control, which isn't very strong in multiplayer. You get way more cards out of Mind's Eye, which is a couple dollars. Or Rhystic Study. Or Mystic Remora, especially in multiplayer.

Remora, actually, is virtually always worth more cards than Ancestral Recall for the same cost. So why is Recall banned? Who cares if nobody can afford it and it's broken in half? The format is broken in half.

And, Seal is way more than LoA. Drain is up there. Workshop is more than LoA and just as powerful. Actually why IS Shop unbanned, when it's more expensive than LoA and probably better?

Cards should really only be banned if they easily enable degenerate combos (like Time Vault) or are patently unfun. Like Iona.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
LoA barely helps most decks. It only really helps control, which isn't very strong in multiplayer. You get way more cards out of Mind's Eye, which is a couple dollars. Or Rhystic Study. Or Mystic Remora, especially in multiplayer.

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The biggest difference between the cards you mentioned and LoA is the roles they play in a deck. Any non land card you add to your deck is competing against countless other cards for the same position. A land though can just swap out with a basic in most cases and does not actually effect any of your spell slots and in the the case of LoA, or any utility land, act almost like a spell.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Workshop is more than LoA and just as powerful. Actually why IS Shop unbanned, when it's more expensive than LoA and probably better?

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Workshop is 100% better in an Artifact based deck, but outside of that it is unplayable. If LoA was to be unbanned it would be playable on the same level as Top and Sol Ring and would go into almost 100% of decks.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Cards should not be banned for $$. Drain is legal. Crypt is legal. Moat is legal. Twister is legal. Imperial Seal is far more expensive than LoA now. Proxying is rampant. So why LoA?

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I dont agree with banning by price either but price is only part of the reason LoA is banned. Moat and Twister tend to fall into certain strategies so are not needed for most decks in those colors. Imperial Seal is certainly on the level of auto include but only for black decks. The fact that Crypt and LoA are colorless means that they can actually go in any deck regardless of color. The utility LoA provides by being a colorless land and the fact that it should be played in almost every deck combined with the price is the reason it is currently banned.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
The format is broken in half.

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
Funny thing, Green is the most broken color in the format and nobody talks about banning cards in green.

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