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Author
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Topic: EDH/Commander Discussion : Part Three (The legit one)
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Crash21
Member
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posted October 18, 2011 10:18 AM
        
I would like to point out that Scrambleverse DOES provide a competitive advantage, if you're playing a removal/damage deck that utilizes few permanents. It can certainly even the board position that the deck is designed to neglect, and is very good at breaking up existing combo pieces already on the board by giving them to the folks that can't really use them.
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Bugger
Member
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posted October 18, 2011 10:23 AM
Which is why I've often thought of acquiring a copy of scrambleverse and altering it so the hand is giving the finger to some well-known combo piece (Mindslaver and Academy Ruins, probably)
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-Lunch_Box-
Member
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posted October 18, 2011 11:01 AM
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
Funny thing, Green is the most broken color in the format and nobody talks about banning cards in green. 
I would say that green is by far the best support color but certainly not the best color overall. As far as green cards that should be banned Hermit Druid tops the list followed by Survival of the Fittest and Tooth and Nail.
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WeedIan
Member
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posted October 18, 2011 01:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by -Lunch_Box-:
I would say that green is by far the best support color but certainly not the best color overall. As far as green cards that should be banned Hermit Druid tops the list followed by Survival of the Fittest and Tooth and Nail.
The most degenerate decks i've played against in EDH have been green. Its mostly because of Eldrazi and not because of Green itself, but the 2 Generals for green help (omanth and the exploration x2 lady) __________________
Member Since 03/28/2001
11000+ posts
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choco man
Member
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posted October 18, 2011 01:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Crash21:
I would like to point out that Scrambleverse DOES provide a competitive advantage, if you're playing a removal/damage deck that utilizes few permanents. It can certainly even the board position that the deck is designed to neglect, and is very good at breaking up existing combo pieces already on the board by giving them to the folks that can't really use them.
It's actually not very good at doing any of the things you mentioned. Actual removal would be much better and doesn't cost you 8cc.
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yakusoku
Member
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posted October 18, 2011 02:59 PM
Random effects are random.They CAN randomly level the playing field or even pull you ahead, but they can also just make things worse. I just played a game the other day where someone played Warp World (a comparable, albeit different effect) when one player had 8 permanents, the other had 12, and I had 14. In response I played Sprout Swarm with buyback twice. I get Admonition Angel, Eternal Witness, Fauna Shaman, Windbrisk Heights, Lighting Greaves, many basic lands, and some other creatures. Admonition Angel exiles the best creatures my two other opponents had and I ended up discarding a creature to Fauna Shaman to get Sun Titan (equipped with Lightning Greaves), getting back Beastmaster Ascension before I attacked and attacking with exactly 7 creatures. I killed one player in a single attack and the other conceded after his draw. It very easily could have gone the other way, where I reveal Birds of Paradise, Llanowar Elves, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, and basic lands. WW and Scrambleverse have the potential (since it's random) for you to come out way ahead, but it's also often possible that you don't. I would rather Blatant Thievery and take the best permanent from everyone, rather than randomly hope you get some good ones.
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stab107
Member
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posted October 19, 2011 05:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
Funny thing, Green is the most broken color in the format and nobody talks about banning cards in green.
quote:
Originally posted by -Lunch_Box-:
I would say that green is by far the best support color but certainly not the best color overall.
I had the pleasure of meeting and playing with Michael French while I was in Japan. He is primarily a green player, almost always mono-green. And I'm not talking about ramp to fatties I'm talking about mono-green control. If he is allowed time and space he will completely take over a game. I have never seen anyone utilize green as effectively as Michael. If you have never seen someone playing mono-green control then you really don't understand the true maximization of green's power in EDH. quote:
Originally posted by yakusoku:
Random effects are random.WW and Scrambleverse have the potential (since it's random) for you to come out way ahead, but it's also often possible that you don't. I would rather Blatant Thievery and take the best permanent from everyone, rather than randomly hope you get some good ones.
The first time someone plays WW, it's fun. But when people fork it or do it over and over in a game it gets pretty annoying. While I do enjoy randomness quite a bit WW takes it to an extreme that can be unfun if overused. Blatant Thievery is in almost every blue deck in my playgroup. It's way more reliable than a WW, obviously, but not quite as fun in the abstract. Still, when you can steal everyone's giant fatties or annoying utility lands like Maze of Ith it's pretty sweet .
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-Lunch_Box-
Member
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posted October 19, 2011 06:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by yakusoku:
Random effects are random.
Last time I played a guy Chaos Warped my general into Sun Titan. During another game I was attacking him for lethal with a Berserked Rafiq and a Finest Hour which would have let me kill two players that turn. He Chaos Warped one of his guys in the hopes of getting a bigger blocker to survive and hit Bogardan Hellkite to kill me because I was at 5 life  . quote:
Originally posted by stab107:
If he is allowed time and space he will completely take over a game.
To be fair though that statement applies to any well constructed EDH deck. Im not trying to say that green is bad by any means and would rank it 3rd overall and 1st in support colors. It provides solid ramp that is harder to deal with then artifacts, great removal for everything except creatures, good tutor options that are limited to creatures and land, and some of the most threatening creatures in the game. The biggest weakness green has in my mind is dealing with problem creatures, especially generals, and almost no interaction with the stack.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by -Lunch_Box- on October 19, 2011]
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caquaa
Member
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posted October 19, 2011 12:48 PM
My primary EDH deck is my Warp WOrld deck. Its built for pure advantage off of warp world with a non-permanent count of ~8. I still lose sometimes when I cast warp world. Someone hits disk and I hit a huge amount of creatures, no haste, and 2 lands. It happens, but typically I come out ahead.My deck does power out the large genesis waves though, and that card is broke cause its all one sided.
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MasterWolf
Member
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posted October 19, 2011 12:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
My primary EDH deck is my Warp WOrld deck. Its built for pure advantage off of warp world with a non-permanent count of ~8. I still lose sometimes when I cast warp world. Someone hits disk and I hit a huge amount of creatures, no haste, and 2 lands. It happens, but typically I come out ahead.My deck does power out the large genesis waves though, and that card is broke cause its all one sided.
Got a list somewhere? I've wanted to do something similar.
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caquaa
Member
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posted October 19, 2011 08:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MasterWolf:
Got a list somewhere? I've wanted to do something similar.
This list is outdated, but here is what I was running:
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6582&p=78510 I know its outdated cause there isn't' a tooth and nail in the list 
I also no longer run the gamble, vexing shusher, anarchist, bogardan hellkite, nihil spellbomb, riftsweeper, madrush cyclops, or jund panorama. Only things off the top of my head that came in are bloodgift demon, rune-scarred demon, and tooth and nail.
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choco man
Member
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posted October 19, 2011 09:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by -Lunch_Box-:
The biggest weakness green has in my mind is dealing with problem creatures, especially generals, and almost no interaction with the stack.
"To be fair though that statement applies to any EDH deck." ...Or color of deck for that matter. Every color has it's weaknesses, even blue. Taking everything into consideration, it wouldn't be unreasonable for anyone to make a case that Green is the best color in EDH.
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revenger
Member
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posted October 20, 2011 12:15 PM
So what's a good Commander for the 2 color decks I am starting to build?White/Blue- I've ordered a Geist of Saint Traft. It's that or Grand Arbiter Augustin IV Blue/Black Oona is my target, as it's a mill deck. But is there another that could replace her and/or be better? Green/Red Fry em is the theme of the deck with some of the best CC creatures for those 2 colors. Kird Ape, Lightning Bolt, FTK. Ideas anyone? __________________
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iccarus
Member
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posted October 20, 2011 12:38 PM
UW - Of the Generals available, Geist is the least likely to make others auto-target you and still be good enough to be competitive. Most of the others are build around generals (Sygg/Isperia) or have to high a cc (Ith). The Arbiter just draws hate as soon as you reveal him.UB - With a mill theme, Oona seems right on. Other considerations would be Wrexial, for the bonus of using the stuff your opponent mills. Usually though, getting a horde of 1/1 flyers is just plain better. GR - I like Wort for straight RG decks. Conspiring burn and removal spells seems pretty decent. __________________
Wisconsin - smells like dairy air!I collect Granite Gargoyles. Send them my way.
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WeedIan
Member
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posted October 20, 2011 06:55 PM
I need a theme deck, Vampires, Goblins or Zombies.I'm not sure what to play __________________
Member Since 03/28/2001
11000+ posts
1st in posts in Ontario
13th in posts on MOTL
Top 5 in Refs in Ontario (by people who location posted)
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keywacat
Member
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posted October 20, 2011 11:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
I need a theme deck, Vampires, Goblins or Zombies.I'm not sure what to play
Knights with Crovax, Hero Ascendant as your general? (I plan to build this next )
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MasterWolf
Member
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posted October 21, 2011 11:01 AM
Ok, I'm building Relentless Rats EDH. I need ways to abuse them. I have Thrumming Stone, Pat. Bidding, and Living Death.Akroma's Memorial should be in there. What else?
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NorCalMtg
Member
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posted October 21, 2011 11:19 AM
I need your guys help. In the past I have constructed two very good very broken EDH decks. They were Rofellos before banning, and also Arcum Daggson. Arcum did absurdly powerful things as a general and I know I am a Spike at heart so I am looking for something similar to that, but maybe in a different color. Any suggestions? I would love to do another mono green deck or blue artifact based build, but looking to venture into U/B or 5c....thoughts? thanks in advance.
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MasterWolf
Member
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posted October 21, 2011 11:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by NorCalMtg:
I need your guys help. In the past I have constructed two very good very broken EDH decks. They were Rofellos before banning, and also Arcum Daggson. Arcum did absurdly powerful things as a general and I know I am a Spike at heart so I am looking for something similar to that, but maybe in a different color. Any suggestions? I would love to do another mono green deck or blue artifact based build, but looking to venture into U/B or 5c....thoughts? thanks in advance.
Oona with all the infi Mana combos. Spikey Maga decks are fun. Mimeoplasm combo.
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revenger
Member
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posted October 21, 2011 02:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
I need a theme deck, Vampires, Goblins or Zombies.I'm not sure what to play
Depends. Vampires? Lots of Choices as general. Personally I'd like to see Baron Sengir as a general, homelands need some respect. Goblins? Well, we've seen this before have we not? lol Zombies? Sounds interesting? But who as your General? Skittles? Zombie + Infect...sounds interesting. __________________
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revenger
Member
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posted October 21, 2011 02:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by iccarus:
GR - I like Wort for straight RG decks. Conspiring burn and removal spells seems pretty decent.
Would a Chandra Ablaze be a good fit for this deck? __________________
Your 2008 and 2010 Motl Siskel & Ebert award winner! I'm available for all your third party needs. Email me if interested in a 3rd party transaction.
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caquaa
Member
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posted October 21, 2011 02:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
I need a theme deck, Vampires, Goblins or Zombies.I'm not sure what to play
Vampires: Garza Zol, Plague Queen Goblins: Wort, Boggart Auntie Zombies: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born seems pretty straight forward. Choose the one you like best and get to it. Zombies seem to be the flavor of the month though. Maybe one of the other two are a better option.
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choco man
Member
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posted October 21, 2011 02:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by revenger:
Would a Chandra Ablaze be a good fit for this deck?
I think Chandra Firebrand would be better, since it also doubles spells.
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jaromirjagr
Member
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posted October 23, 2011 01:31 AM
My friends trying to make a doran commander deck.What would you suggest?Some high defence critters?Was thinking of using warmongers chariot,wakestone gargoyle wall of nets etc,sunweb.
Suggestions?
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Volcanon
Member
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posted October 23, 2011 01:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jaromirjagr:
My friends trying to make a doran commander deck.What would you suggest?Some high defence critters?Was thinking of using warmongers chariot,wakestone gargoyle wall of nets etc,sunweb.
Suggestions?
Play the white guy from Dissention that removes defender. And Castle.
Play stuff with high toughness that isn't necessarily a wall.
Play walls with the Glyphs from Legends.
Include standard broken WGB cards.
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