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Author Topic:   Rulings and Questions: Part 49
rockondon
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posted August 06, 2011 10:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for rockondon Click Here to Email rockondon Send a private message to rockondon Click to send rockondon an Instant MessageVisit rockondon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rockondon's Have/Want ListView rockondon's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Bugger:
Rings can't copy mana abilities, so I'm not sure how you intend to go infinite...

...by copying the untap ability.

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WestWycke
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posted August 06, 2011 11:06 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for WestWycke Click Here to Email WestWycke Send a private message to WestWycke Click to send WestWycke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rockondon:
I'm building an arcum dagsson EDH deck.
If I use arcum to tinker away a creature for rings of brighthearth, can I pay 2 mana to copy arcum's ability, sacking a creature for basalt monolith, then create infinite mana with the basalt/brighthearth?

I'm thinkin that I have to have the rings of brighthearth in play already when I use arcum's ability but just wanted to make sure.


You can't copy Arcum Daggson's ability in this scenario. As you guessed, the Rings would need to already be in play.

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Jazaray
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posted August 06, 2011 06:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jazaray Click Here to Email Jazaray Send a private message to Jazaray Click to send Jazaray an Instant MessageVisit Jazaray's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I have a couple of questions.

I have a reflecting pool and a vivid creek (with no more counters) in play. The pool can still tap for any color, correct? Because the "remove a counter" part is the activation cost of using the creek, so it doesn't matter that I can't activate it now, just that it could possibly produce any color mana.. right?


Next question:

My opponent has Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendent in play, however, it's flipped. I can't copy it with my Sakashima the Impostor right? Because it's no longer a creature?

If it wasn't flipped, and I copy it, would it work the same way and flip when I got to 30 life? If it does, does it still have the "return to hand" ability?


Thanks,
Jazaray

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Kyzneg
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posted August 06, 2011 06:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jazaray:
I have a couple of questions.

I have a reflecting pool and a vivid creek (with no more counters) in play. The pool can still tap for any color, correct? Because the "remove a counter" part is the activation cost of using the creek, so it doesn't matter that I can't activate it now, just that it could possibly produce any color mana.. right?


Correct. From the Shadowmoor FAQ:

quote:
Originally posted by Shadowmoor FAQ:
5/1/2008: Reflecting Pool checks the effects of all mana-producing abilities of lands you control, but it doesn't check their costs. For example, Vivid Crag says "{T}, Remove a charge counter from Vivid Crag: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool." If you control Vivid Crag and Reflecting Pool, you can tap Reflecting Pool for any color of mana. It doesn't matter whether Vivid Crag has a charge counter on it, and it doesn't
matter whether it's untapped.

-------------------------------------------------------

quote:
Originally posted by Jazaray:
Next question:
My opponent has Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendent in play, however, it's flipped. I can't copy it with my Sakashima the Impostor right? Because it's no longer a creature?

Correct, it is no longer a creature, thus no longer a legal target for Sakashima, Clone, or similar effects.

quote:
Originally posted by Jazaray:
If it wasn't flipped, and I copy it, would it work the same way and flip when I got to 30 life? If it does, does it still have the "return to hand" ability?

It does have the flip ability, and though I can't find a specific rule for it, there is an example in the Comp Rules that suggests that the Sakashima-Rune-Tail retains Sakashima's granted return to hand ability:

quote:
Originally posted by Comprehensive Rules, Example under rule 110.6:
Example: Dimir Doppelganger says “{1}{U}{B}: Exile target creature card from a graveyard. Dimir Doppelganger becomes a copy of that card and gains this ability.” It becomes a copy of Jushi Apprentice, a flip card. Through use of Jushi Apprentice’s ability, this creature flips, making it a copy of Tomoya the Revealer with the Dimir Doppelganger ability.

This is a little unintuitive, but as far as I can tell, flipping the card only changes the printed text box, and doesn't change the granted ability given when Sakashima copies a creature.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Kyzneg on August 06, 2011]

 
Jazaray
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posted August 06, 2011 10:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jazaray Click Here to Email Jazaray Send a private message to Jazaray Click to send Jazaray an Instant MessageVisit Jazaray's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Ok, thanks.

If my opponent and I both ONLY have Exotic Orchard out, do either of them produce mana?

Thanks,
Jazaray

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A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

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LemonMeringue
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posted August 06, 2011 10:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LemonMeringue Click Here to Email LemonMeringue Send a private message to LemonMeringue Click to send LemonMeringue an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or SaleView LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or Sale
Jazaray, in that case neither of you could produce mana.
 
ryan2754
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posted August 07, 2011 06:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryan2754 Click Here to Email ryan2754 Send a private message to ryan2754 Click to send ryan2754 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryan2754's Have/Want ListView ryan2754's Have/Want List
Say I have a Recycle of Null Profusion in Play.

What is the my maximum hand size if I have a Spellbook/Reliquary Tower in play?

Since the Spellbook/RT has a negative in it's wording ("no), it takes precedence correct?

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Kyzneg
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posted August 07, 2011 06:20 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ryan2754:
Say I have a Recycle of Null Profusion in Play.

What is the my maximum hand size if I have a Spellbook/Reliquary Tower in play?

Since the Spellbook/RT has a negative in it's wording ("no), it takes precedence correct?


No precedence, timestamp order applies. So if you play Recycle, then play Spellbook, you have no maximum hand size. If you play Spellbook, then play Recycle, your maximum hand size is 2.

 
ryan2754
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posted August 07, 2011 06:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryan2754 Click Here to Email ryan2754 Send a private message to ryan2754 Click to send ryan2754 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryan2754's Have/Want ListView ryan2754's Have/Want List
Real quick, another question.

I have a Pestilence and Fungusaur in play.
If I used Pestilence ability twice, Fungusaur is still alive because he had a +1/+1 counter after the first activation.

 
Meddling Pimp
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posted August 07, 2011 06:29 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Meddling Pimp Click Here to Email Meddling Pimp Send a private message to Meddling Pimp Click to send Meddling Pimp an Instant MessageVisit Meddling Pimp's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ryan2754:
Real quick, another question.

I have a Pestilence and Fungusaur in play.
If I used Pestilence ability twice, Fungusaur is still alive because he had a +1/+1 counter after the first activation.


Yes. Fungasaur's ability will trigger after the first Pestilence resolution, putting a counter on it (and again after the second, of course).

 
Kyzneg
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posted August 07, 2011 06:29 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ryan2754:
Real quick, another question.

I have a Pestilence and Fungusaur in play.
If I used Pestilence ability twice, Fungusaur is still alive because he had a +1/+1 counter after the first activation.


Correct, the Fungusaur would trigger after the top activation of Pestilence on the stack resolves, and that trigger resolves before the second Pestilence activation.

Edit: Nathed

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Kyzneg on August 07, 2011]

 
rockondon
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posted August 08, 2011 06:09 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for rockondon Click Here to Email rockondon Send a private message to rockondon Click to send rockondon an Instant MessageVisit rockondon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rockondon's Have/Want ListView rockondon's Have/Want List
The more I look at rings of brighthearth the more powerful it seems. At first I intended it to copy Arcum's tinker ability and make infinite mana with basalt monolith in my EDH deck, but it can do so much more.

Which of the following are legal uses of rings of brighthearth?:
1) fetch an additional land when using fetchlands.
2) copy the copper gnomes ability and put a 2nd artifact into play.
3) transmuting tolaria west will fetch me two zero-cost cards.
4) sacking a 4/4 creature to altar of dementia will mill 8 cards off the opponent's deck.
5) you can mindslaver two opponents instead of one.
6) sacking kuldotha forgemaster and 2 other artifacts will fetch an additional artifact.
7) myr retriever returns an additional artifact.
8) using tezzeret the seeker for a 4-cost artifact will fetch an additional 4-cost artifact.
9) using sensei's top to draw a card and put the top on the library will fetch an additional card.
10) I can fetch an additional land with expedition map.

11)I attempt to equip Arcum dagsson with lightning greaves. My opponent responds by casting swords to plowshares on Arcum. I respond by copying the equip ability of the greaves (using the rings of brighthearth) which equips Arcum and protects him from the stp.

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caquaa
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posted August 08, 2011 06:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
rockondon: Those look fine except for the last one. Rings is a triggered ability so it goes on the stack when you activate lightning greaves. You can pay the 2 mana when the triggered ability of rings resolves, not whenever you want to.
 
Darkwing
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posted August 09, 2011 08:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Darkwing Send a private message to Darkwing Click to send Darkwing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Would playing a Red Sun's Zenith, paying "X" of zero still "target" a creature? (specifically wondering about playing a zero-damage RSZ on an opponent's Illusion creature to cause it to be sacrificed)
 
yukizora
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posted August 09, 2011 08:13 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for yukizora Click Here to Email yukizora Send a private message to yukizora Click to send yukizora an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Darkwing:
Would playing a Red Sun's Zenith, paying "X" of zero still "target" a creature? (specifically wondering about playing a zero-damage RSZ on an opponent's Illusion creature to cause it to be sacrificed)

Yup.

 
yukizora
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posted August 09, 2011 08:14 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for yukizora Click Here to Email yukizora Send a private message to yukizora Click to send yukizora an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
rockondon: Those look fine except for the last one. Rings is a triggered ability so it goes on the stack when you activate lightning greaves. You can pay the 2 mana when the triggered ability of rings resolves, not whenever you want to.

If his opponent doesn't say he let's ring's ability resolve first, too bad for him.
As described, it would work, but there's a way for his opponent to avoid it

 
Kyzneg
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posted August 09, 2011 08:35 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by yukizora:
If his opponent doesn't say he let's ring's ability resolve first, too bad for him.
As described, it would work, but there's a way for his opponent to avoid it

Still doesn't work. The Rings triggers and puts its triggered ability on the stack before either player gets priority after the Lightning Greaves equip ability is put on the stack. So the first chance the opponent gets to cast StP is when both the greaves' and the Rings' abilities are on the stack, so the StP will resolve before either ability has a chance to equip Greaves to a creature.

 
yukizora
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posted August 09, 2011 10:03 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for yukizora Click Here to Email yukizora Send a private message to yukizora Click to send yukizora an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kyzneg:
Still doesn't work. The Rings triggers and puts its triggered ability on the stack before either player gets priority after the Lightning Greaves equip ability is put on the stack. So the first chance the opponent gets to cast StP is when both the greaves' and the Rings' abilities are on the stack, so the StP will resolve before either ability has a chance to equip Greaves to a creature.

My bad

 
rockondon
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So my monoblue general (Arcum) needs mana creatures for fodder for him. I can put in myr such as gold myr, copper myr, etc right? (yes I know they would produce colorless mana)

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Kyzneg
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posted August 10, 2011 12:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rockondon:
So my monoblue general (Arcum) needs mana creatures for fodder for him. I can put in myr such as gold myr, copper myr, etc right? (yes I know they would produce colorless mana)


They still aren't legal, see rule 903.5c:

quote:
Originally posted by Comprehensive Rulebook, 903.5c:
A card can't be included in a Commander deck if it has any colors that aren't part of the commander's color identity or if it has any mana symbols in its mana cost or rules text that aren't of a color in the commander's color identity

And for reference, color identity is 903.4:

quote:
Originally posted by Comprehensive Rules, 903.4:
The color identity of a deck's commander is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card's mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities



[Edited 1 times, lastly by Kyzneg on August 10, 2011]
 
ryan2754
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posted August 11, 2011 07:26 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryan2754 Click Here to Email ryan2754 Send a private message to ryan2754 Click to send ryan2754 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryan2754's Have/Want ListView ryan2754's Have/Want List
Just out of curiousity.

If a card happened to have both Flashback and BuyBack. Could you pay both costs and get the cards back from your hand despite playing it from your graveyard?

Would the same go for Madness and Buyback?

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yukizora
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posted August 11, 2011 07:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for yukizora Click Here to Email yukizora Send a private message to yukizora Click to send yukizora an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ryan2754:
Just out of curiousity.

If a card happened to have both Flashback and BuyBack. Could you pay both costs and get the cards back from your hand despite playing it from your graveyard?

Would the same go for Madness and Buyback?



Flashback says you get to exile if it would go anywhere out of the stack, so nope.

But with madness, you can pay for buyback as an additional cost to it's madness cost, and get it back in your hand as it resolves.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by yukizora on August 11, 2011]

 
mattw
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posted August 11, 2011 09:45 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mattw Click Here to Email mattw Send a private message to mattw Click to send mattw an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mattw's Have/Want ListView mattw's Have/Want List
When you get attacked with a general do you take just the general damage or also take that much damage from your life total?
 
TimeBeing
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posted August 12, 2011 12:29 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mattw:
When you get attacked with a general do you take just the general damage or also take that much damage from your life total?

You take both.

 
Devonin
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posted August 12, 2011 11:14 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
General damage isn't actually "damage" in the sense that in taking both, things that went off on you taking damage would not happen twice.

It's just "You have 40 life, and if at any time, you've taken 21 points of damage from a single general, you lose"

 

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