quote:

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Originally posted by Pringlesman:
Man, I was so excited about this block, but then they had to pull crap like this? This is really one of the worst designed mechanics they have ever made.

Ok heres another question I have, what justification does wotc now have for not allowing World Champion cards in tourney decks (provided they play opaque sleeves?) I mean it's just another card with a different back.

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Originally posted by 264505:
Imagine drafting with this as well.

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Wow, I just realized how that could pose a problem.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Havoc Demon:
Wow, I just realized how that could pose a problem.

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Yeah. You can even show it so you can tell people what color you drafted too. It's really weird.

Love the flavor. Hate the execution. Starting to get the jump the shark feeling. ZEN was so good, hidden treasures was brilliant. Scars wad very mediocre and poison and Phyrexian mana sucked for the game.

What happens if someone drafts 4 flip cards but only gets 3 checklists and no one will lend him checklists during a draft?

Guess you can't play your flip card because people are jerks.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pringlesman:
Man, I was so excited about this block, but then they had to pull crap like this? This is really one of the worst designed mechanics they have ever made.

Ok heres another question I have, what justification does wotc now have for not allowing World Champion cards in tourney decks (provided they play opaque sleeves?) I mean it's just another card with a different back.

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Wow, they got balls. This is one of those extremes that will either bring a lot of success or have the entire design team fired.

I wonder how foils will work.

My first impression is don't like it. Besides the flipping, does it make sense that cards transform when people don't play spells. I guess its "quiet" so like night?

I still want to see a Pirate or Ancient Egyptian themed sets.

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
Flip cards are lame, and will be difficult to deal with.

What happens if someone drafts 4 flip cards but only gets 3 checklists and no one will lend him checklists during a draft?

Guess you can't play your flip card because people are jerks.

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Originally posted by Bugger:
ITT: knee-jerk reactions to something new better suited to salvation. Come on people, you're better than this.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Nah. Nothing will make me think this isn't crap. Half the time I don't draft with sleeves. I don't want to play with no stupid checklist either. I sincerely hope that none of these are tournament playable in any meaningful way so that I don't ever have to play with them.

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Cynical, judgmental, and butthurt? You? No, never!

quote:

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Originally posted by Pringlesman:
Ok heres another question I have, what justification does wotc now have for not allowing World Champion cards in tourney decks (provided they play opaque sleeves?) I mean it's just another card with a different back.

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Is this supposed to be a riddle or something? They have gold borders. Boy, that was easy.

quote:

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Originally posted by TimeBeing:
Yeah. You can even show it so you can tell people what color you drafted too. It's really weird.

Love the flavor. Hate the execution. Starting to get the jump the shark feeling. ZEN was so good, hidden treasures was brilliant. Scars wad very mediocre and poison and Phyrexian mana sucked for the game.

Now t go great flavor like Zen but crappy design like Scars.

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Yeah, that Richard Garfield ******* really jumped the shark on this whole card game. Does he have, like, no respect for history or something? Get him off the design team, Rosewater! Clearly he doesn't know what he's doing.

quote:

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Originally posted by reaperbong:
WOTC is ripping off the old CCG 'Rage' with these werewolf flip cards. except for without the gore and general badassness that made Rage awesome

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I have nothing snarky to say to this except that I <3 the humor of a guy with "bong" in his name talking about rips :P

quote:

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
Flip cards are lame, and will be difficult to deal with.

What happens if someone drafts 4 flip cards but only gets 3 checklists and no one will lend him checklists during a draft?

Guess you can't play your flip card because people are jerks.

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...Are you serious?
You can't be serious.
Alright, I don't know how scarce the pen supply is up in canada these days, but if you ever find yourself in the absolutely crushing situation of not having enough official nifty checklist cards, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to write on a basic land and use that instead.

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Originally posted by sammyt125:
Use sleeves, then. Or use another card (not from the block) as a proxy. There are easy solutions.

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Originally posted by mtglover:
So what is the solution to exposing the cards during deck building? Oh look, I'm drafting green, oh look, I drafted that bomb.

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In fairness, this is the only valid concern I've yet seen expressed re: double-faced cards. I'd expect this to be either solved or explained by rosewater or Lapille this week.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:
In fairness, this is the only valid concern I've yet seen expressed re: double-faced cards. I'd expect this to be either solved or explained by rosewater or Lapille this week.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mtglover:
So what is the solution to exposing the cards during deck building? Oh look, I'm drafting green, oh look, I drafted that bomb.

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Originally posted by James_Hetfield2:
I wonder how foils will work.

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quote:

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
Flip cards are lame, and will be difficult to deal with.

What happens if someone drafts 4 flip cards but only gets 3 checklists and no one will lend him checklists during a draft?

Guess you can't play your flip card because people are jerks.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:

...Are you serious?
You can't be serious.
Alright, I don't know how scarce the pen supply is up in canada these days, but if you ever find yourself in the absolutely crushing situation of not having enough official nifty checklist cards, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to write on a basic land and use that instead.

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I'm not serious but it said in his ruling you HAVE TO use a checklist.

I don't like when people don't use sleeves to draft anyways.

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Originally posted by coasterdude84:
I had the same thought. From a manufacturing standpoint, it seems like it would be difficult to foil the fronts and backs without foiling the backs of the normal cards. Unless of course, all the flip cards are printed on a separate sheet, but that would pose logistical problems as well. Sadly, my gut tells me only the front side will be foiled, but here's hoping I'm wrong.

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Read some articles on de-inking foils and making proxies. They will likely use the foiling where the ink if on top of the shiny surface and cards would be printed on both sides.

quote:

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Originally posted by WeedIan:

I'm not serious but it said in his ruling you HAVE TO use a checklist.

I don't like when people don't use sleeves to draft anyways.

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I'm wagering at the local level your TO would let you use the super secret tech of basic lands + sharpie, and at higher levels like PTs and such they'll have checklist cards provided.

quote:

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Originally posted by Devonin:
There should be sufficient checklists floating around to allow you to use them for deck construction as well as draft concealment, so it shouldn't be that big of a problem.

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Of course, that really only applies if there isn't a checklist in every pack that has a flip card, or if they do not supply stores with a sleeve of them just in case (PLEASE!!!).

This feels like a nightmare for judges at the prerelease and the launch party, honestly. I hope it isn't as bad as I think it could be. IDK when I became such a doomsayer...

EDIT:
Also, the spoiled "Ludevic's Test Subject" looks particularly impressive if combined with Proliferate

Good thing Vampire Hexmage will rotate out soon, lol. I guess Hex Parasite is still a concern, though.

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How about the problems associated with storing, transporting, and managing a deck with double-sided cards and checklists? In the tournament environment, constructed decks will be larger than usual; what will you store them in? When you sit down to play, where do you put the double-sided cards so they're easily accessible when needed without giving information to your opponent. Heck, just the fact that you have to find someplace to set them aside gives your opponent some measure of information about the contents of your deck. OF course, in tournaments most players will likely go for the opaque sleeve option. But that will still require that the card be de-sleeved/flipped/re-sleeved when it transforms, or de-sleeved when it transforms and then played naked on the battlefield until it needs to get re-sleeved when it leaves the battlefield. Either way gets clumsy and will NOT help with the pace of games.

And for casual players, trying to build decks and keep track of their cards becomes more difficult as you will almost need to keep one checklist with every double-sided card you own to ensure you can use it if you make a deck with it sometime in the future.

I gotta say that the logistics of requiring either opaque sleeves for casual play, or needing two cards to represent one card in any environment, was a poor design choice.

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