Click Here!
         

Thread Closed  Topic Closed
  Magic Online Trading League Bulletin Board
  Magic Discussion
  Innistrad Spoiler! (Page 5)

Post New Topic  
profile | register | preferences | faq | rules | memberlist | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 13 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13 
  next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Innistrad Spoiler!
Sliver King
Member
posted August 28, 2011 10:36 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sliver King Click Here to Email Sliver King Send a private message to Sliver King Click to send Sliver King an Instant MessageVisit Sliver King's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I am excited to see how these actually play. They seem cool, but I envision a few rough moments when one player claims to have played two spells in a given turn while the other disagrees.

I'll also be interested in how the first match of each prerelease goes. I can imagine a number of people neglecting the checklist and shuffling naked. There will be a lot of judge calls as these players are instructed to use the checklists. It seems like the judges will need to make it explicitly clear how these are expected to work prior to the start of the tournament. They will probably have to repeat themselves multiple times, as many players near me disregard the judges and do their own thing.

Regardless of these potential difficulties, I cannot wait to get my hands on some lycanthropes and go to town (why did they have to get rid of that creature type - it was so cool!)

 
Goaswerfraiejen
Member
posted August 28, 2011 10:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I hated Kamigawa (largely because I didn't care for the flavour or the art) and flip cards. These, I don't mind. In fact, they're kinda cool IMO. But they clearly introduce a whole slew of problems that it may have been better to avoid--and it really is just the same mechanic rehashed.

Question: how exactly will these interact with Maelstrom Pulse and Deed? I imagine that the cmc of a transformed card is the same as its other face, right? I'm less clear on Pulse, however.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions.
Info on grad school in Phil.

 
Bugger
Member
posted August 28, 2011 10:54 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bugger Click Here to Email Bugger Send a private message to Bugger Click to send Bugger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WestWycke:
I think that this will prove to be more of a problem in the long-term future than in the immediate future, particularly for the casual environment. While a set is brand-new, it is hard to encounter the cards without also encountering the peripherals. Anyone played Scars block and NOT encounter the poison counters WOTC made? They're pretty ubiquitous. Now imagine someone new to the game trading for one of these double-sided cards a couple of years from now. Where will they be getting their checklists?

How about the problems associated with storing, transporting, and managing a deck with double-sided cards and checklists? In the tournament environment, constructed decks will be larger than usual; what will you store them in? When you sit down to play, where do you put the double-sided cards so they're easily accessible when needed without giving information to your opponent. Heck, just the fact that you have to find someplace to set them aside gives your opponent some measure of information about the contents of your deck. OF course, in tournaments most players will likely go for the opaque sleeve option. But that will still require that the card be de-sleeved/flipped/re-sleeved when it transforms, or de-sleeved when it transforms and then played naked on the battlefield until it needs to get re-sleeved when it leaves the battlefield. Either way gets clumsy and will NOT help with the pace of games.

And for casual players, trying to build decks and keep track of their cards becomes more difficult as you will almost need to keep one checklist with every double-sided card you own to ensure you can use it if you make a deck with it sometime in the future.

I gotta say that the logistics of requiring either opaque sleeves for casual play, or needing two cards to represent one card in any environment, was a poor design choice.


For the third time: are you really fretting about casual? Use the super secret tech of sharpie + basic land if you're so worried about not having enough checklists. It's really, truly, honestly not an issue.

__________________
It is a known fact that more Americans watch the television than any other appliance.

 
-PoX-
Member
posted August 28, 2011 11:06 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for -PoX- Click Here to Email -PoX- Send a private message to -PoX- Click to send -PoX- an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
The checklists are pretty useless. You need them as much as you need the right kind of tokens for your token generating cards.

The flip thing seems way way more suited for online play than paper, kind of like Goblin Games and Scrambleverse.

 
revenger
Member
posted August 28, 2011 11:47 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for revenger Click Here to Email revenger Click to send revenger an Instant MessageVisit revenger's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View revenger's Have/Want ListView revenger's Have/Want List
It's a werewolf tcg meets transformers tcg. I can almost hear Optimus Prime saying: Blue creatures, transform!
 
skizzikmonger
Member
posted August 28, 2011 02:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Double-faced card rules
 
Goaswerfraiejen
Member
posted August 28, 2011 02:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Sigh. It looks like the 'duals' are really just doubles--lands that produce two colours, but aren't fetchable (AND CIPT unless you already control a requisite land). Pooper scoopers. Maybe my Drowned Catacomb will become a hot commodity. =/

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions.
Info on grad school in Phil.

 
AtriumXP
Member
posted August 28, 2011 03:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for AtriumXP Click Here to Email AtriumXP Send a private message to AtriumXP Click to send AtriumXP an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
We need the same treatment for the Zendikar EtBT uncommon "Refuge" lands now

__________________
Check my List!
**I send in bubble mailer + top loader + soft sleeve**

AtriumXP@gmail.com (e-mail/PayPal)
I answer ref requests!

Rippers, fear my Mail Fraud Form! :mad:

 
Bugger
Member
posted August 28, 2011 05:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bugger Click Here to Email Bugger Send a private message to Bugger Click to send Bugger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Whelp, Moonmist is the speculated Werewolf enabler. Nifty!

__________________
It is a known fact that more Americans watch the television than any other appliance.

 
daner
Member
posted August 28, 2011 05:41 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for daner Click Here to Email daner Send a private message to daner Click to send daner an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View daner's Have/Want ListView daner's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Sliver King:
I am excited to see how these actually play. They seem cool, but I envision a few rough moments when one player claims to have played two spells in a given turn while the other disagrees.

I'll also be interested in how the first match of each prerelease goes. I can imagine a number of people neglecting the checklist and shuffling naked. There will be a lot of judge calls as these players are instructed to use the checklists. It seems like the judges will need to make it explicitly clear how these are expected to work prior to the start of the tournament. They will probably have to repeat themselves multiple times, as many players near me disregard the judges and do their own thing.

Regardless of these potential difficulties, I cannot wait to get my hands on some lycanthropes and go to town (why did they have to get rid of that creature type - it was so cool!)


1.How would one argue about the number of spells played in a turn. If you play a spell....then don't play another spell, and I don't play a spell guess what? Nothing happens. If I draw and say go and you don't respond with any spells guess what? My guy flips. How does one argue about the amount of spells that were cast? Was that a real thought? Are you reaching for a complaint?


2.How is this going to be hard? You get a checklist card to use as a flip card. If you shuffle without sleeves your opponent is obviously going to make you take the card out of the deck because you can plainly see the card like a marked card rule. So this is what happens....the judge comes over, tells you to use the checklist and reshuffle. How is this going to be a hard problem to fix? Again....reaching for complaints.

For the rest of you

This set looks awesome. Most of you are bitching because you are plain stupid and like to bitch. I'm not suprised one bit as every time a new set spoiler comes out MOTL turns into Salvation Jr.

EDIT: I'm so glad you are around Bugger...you don't really know what it means right now to have one other sane person. I'm horribly tired of this "sky is falling" mentality from everyone.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by daner on August 28, 2011]

 
Bugger
Member
posted August 28, 2011 05:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bugger Click Here to Email Bugger Send a private message to Bugger Click to send Bugger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by daner:
1.How would one argue about the number of spells played in a turn. If you play a spell....then don't play another spell, and I don't play a spell guess what? Nothing happens. If I draw and say go and you don't respond with any spells guess what? My guy flips. How does one argue about the amount of spells that were cast? Was that a real thought? Are you reaching for a complaint?


2.How is this going to be hard? You get a checklist card to use as a flip card. If you shuffle without sleeves your opponent is obviously going to make you take the card out of the deck because you can plainly see the card like a marked card rule. So this is what happens....the judge comes over, tells you to use the checklist and reshuffle. How is this going to be a hard problem to fix? Again....reaching for complaints.

For the rest of you

This set looks awesome. Most of you are bitching because you are plain stupid and like to bitch. I'm not suprised one bit as every time a new set spoiler comes out MOTL turns into Salvation Jr.


For once, daner and I are in complete agreement; he just says what's in my mind without editing for politeness.

__________________
It is a known fact that more Americans watch the television than any other appliance.

 
revenger
Member
posted August 28, 2011 05:48 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for revenger Click Here to Email revenger Click to send revenger an Instant MessageVisit revenger's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View revenger's Have/Want ListView revenger's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by revenger:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gaeacradle:So the enemy version of core set duals are going to in Innistrad.

SWEET! Now the set looking better. prolly should preorder a box or at least get me 4x u/g dual.[/QUOTE]

Hmm. What happens to the other duals in the format of type 2? Which ones rotate?

__________________
Your 2008 and 2010 Motl Siskel & Ebert award winner!

Need a 3rd party trader? I'm available! Email me if interested.

 
Volcanon
Member
posted August 28, 2011 05:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by revenger:
Hmm. What happens to the other duals in the format of type 2? Which ones rotate?


Everything in Zendikar is rotating. That notably includes the manlands from Worldwake.

 
Sliver King
Member
posted August 28, 2011 06:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sliver King Click Here to Email Sliver King Send a private message to Sliver King Click to send Sliver King an Instant MessageVisit Sliver King's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by daner:
Most of you are bitching because you are plain stupid and like to bitch. I'm not suprised one bit as every time a new set spoiler comes out MOTL turns into Salvation Jr.

I don't understand why some people respond so severely to discussions posted on this site. If you disagree with something that's been posted, feel free to say so. There's no need to call people "stupid" because they've expressed an opinion that might be contrary to your own.

Returning to Innistrad, I'm looking forward to quoting Mortal Kombat every time I use the fight mechanic. "Finish him!"

 
LemonMeringue
Member
posted August 28, 2011 06:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LemonMeringue Click Here to Email LemonMeringue Send a private message to LemonMeringue Click to send LemonMeringue an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or SaleView LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or Sale
New ghost quarter art rules, glad to see the reprint
 
daner
Member
posted August 28, 2011 06:20 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for daner Click Here to Email daner Send a private message to daner Click to send daner an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View daner's Have/Want ListView daner's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Sliver King:
I don't understand why some people respond so severely to discussions posted on this site. If you disagree with something that's been posted, feel free to say so. There's no need to call people "stupid" because they've expressed an opinion that might be contrary to your own.


The "OMG Magic is ruined, this set is aweful, fire everyone at WOTC" chicken little responses that are being generated are NOT discussions. These "discussions", if you want to call them that, are really just moans and groans you would expect from a child.

Like Bugger and I have said...most of this you'd expect from Salvation. It just keeps getting worse and worse on MOTL. If all you can add to a discussion is how terrible something is, then why even open your mouth? You add NOTHING to discussion and to call it a discussion in itself is a crime against rational thought.

Why not have a positive outlook until you've actually played with the cards?

 
SageShadows
Member
posted August 28, 2011 06:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for SageShadows Click Here to Email SageShadows Send a private message to SageShadows Click to send SageShadows an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
I hated Kamigawa (largely because I didn't care for the flavour or the art) and flip cards. These, I don't mind. In fact, they're kinda cool IMO. But they clearly introduce a whole slew of problems that it may have been better to avoid--and it really is just the same mechanic rehashed.

Question: how exactly will these interact with Maelstrom Pulse and Deed? I imagine that the cmc of a transformed card is the same as its other face, right? I'm less clear on Pulse, however.



Quoted for truth. I actually like this, although I can see the awkwardness. I hated flip cards because they looked so darn fugly.
 
thror
Member
posted August 28, 2011 06:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by daner:

Why not have a positive outlook until you've actually played with the cards?


Because we are all entitled to our own opinions, even if they are contrary to yours.

The flip cards create headaches.
1) Now you HAVE to play with sleeves, or have these official proxies. Are there going to be enough for everyone? How do we know? Will there be any 5 years from now, when someone wants to draft Inn for fun? There are still people that don't like to play with sleeves, and this will irk them.
2) Your flip card is in a sleeve, whats the other side? 10 minutes later, wait what does the other side do again? Etc.
3) Judge, i sided in my flip card by mistake, so now it and the checklist card are in my deck. Halp!
4) Hey, its a draft, and i can see two of the cards in YOUR pack. And you took the red one. Now i can screw with your draft by cutting red in pack two, hurrah, this is fun.

Wotc had to really, REALLY think these were the greatest thing ever if they printed it in spite of these points. It's ballsy, and there is a possibility it backfires, and if I were making the cards, printing on the back is something i would NOT have done.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
Havoc Demon
Member
posted August 28, 2011 06:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Havoc Demon Click Here to Email Havoc Demon Send a private message to Havoc Demon Click to send Havoc Demon an Instant MessageVisit Havoc Demon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I find this set pretty cool. If they can print a Liliana Vess for EDH then its icing on the cake.

__________________
Most References in Massachusetts
88th All-time

Support my friend's store: http://www.tabletoparena.com

 
Bugger
Member
posted August 28, 2011 07:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bugger Click Here to Email Bugger Send a private message to Bugger Click to send Bugger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thror, your complaints have already been addressed multiple times in this thread. Restating the same whines isn't "discussion", it's just bullheaded *****ing.

__________________
It is a known fact that more Americans watch the television than any other appliance.

 
-PoX-
Member
posted August 28, 2011 08:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for -PoX- Click Here to Email -PoX- Send a private message to -PoX- Click to send -PoX- an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I like that new vampire legend chick.

It's so great now that EDH exists. Every Legend is a potential commander! Plus this one steals creatures, the best thing to do in Magic. Woo

 
nderdog
Moderator
posted August 28, 2011 08:54 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for nderdog Click Here to Email nderdog Send a private message to nderdog Click to send nderdog an Instant MessageVisit nderdog's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View nderdog's Have/Want ListView nderdog's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
Because we are all entitled to our own opinions, even if they are contrary to yours.

The flip cards create headaches.
1) Now you HAVE to play with sleeves, or have these official proxies. Are there going to be enough for everyone? How do we know? Will there be any 5 years from now, when someone wants to draft Inn for fun? There are still people that don't like to play with sleeves, and this will irk them.
2) Your flip card is in a sleeve, whats the other side? 10 minutes later, wait what does the other side do again? Etc.
3) Judge, i sided in my flip card by mistake, so now it and the checklist card are in my deck. Halp!
4) Hey, its a draft, and i can see two of the cards in YOUR pack. And you took the red one. Now i can screw with your draft by cutting red in pack two, hurrah, this is fun.

Wotc had to really, REALLY think these were the greatest thing ever if they printed it in spite of these points. It's ballsy, and there is a possibility it backfires, and if I were making the cards, printing on the back is something i would NOT have done.


Don't play with total morons?

1) If anyone is really not smart enough to figure out that a sharpie + basic land = flip card replacement, they have no business playing Magic.

2) WotC has specifically said that the flip cards should be removed from the sleeves when in play if sleeved.

3) Is this really any different than some idiot shuffling tokens into their decks between games, or improperly sideboarding? This is not a new problem, and trying to make it into one is just silly.

4) Turn-about is fair play. Yes, this will cause some strangeness in drafts, but it isn't that hard to be careful when looking at your cards to not reveal information that you don't want to reveal.

Edit:
Am I the only one having flashbacks of "OMG, they changed the cardface, this is turrible, I quit"?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by nderdog on August 28, 2011]

CubFan81
Member
posted August 28, 2011 09:08 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for CubFan81 Click Here to Email CubFan81 Send a private message to CubFan81 Click to send CubFan81 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View CubFan81's Have/Want ListView CubFan81's Have/Want List
Forget the flavor and transform cards, I want to talk about the fighting!

I'm presuming and hoping the fight mechanic is Green's attempt at removal. I was thinking it would have eventually been Provoke but fight seems close enough.

__________________
PMs don't work in Chrome or Firefox 4.0+, see HERE for work arounds.

 
AlmostGrown
Member
posted August 28, 2011 09:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for AlmostGrown Click Here to Email AlmostGrown Send a private message to AlmostGrown Click to send AlmostGrown an Instant MessageVisit AlmostGrown's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View AlmostGrown's Have/Want ListView AlmostGrown's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by CubFan81:
Forget the flavor and transform cards, I want to talk about the fighting!

I'm presuming and hoping the fight mechanic is Green's attempt at removal. I was thinking it would have eventually been Provoke but fight seems close enough.


It can't be green's attempt at removal, seeing how it's activation cost is R. Honestly, it took them long enough to keyword it, although I honestly thought it would be called "Dueling". Kind of like there's a card called Rival's Duel. I think Duel evokes more flavor than Fighting. Look at Arena, Magus of the Arena, etc.

__________________
send ref checks, paypal payment or any questions to the email in my profile!
Serra Angel Count: 413
Nightmare Count: 129
DCI Rules Advisor
PlasteredDragon - Gone but not forgotten

 
Goaswerfraiejen
Member
posted August 28, 2011 09:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AlmostGrown:
It can't be green's attempt at removal, seeing how it's activation cost is R. Honestly, it took them long enough to keyword it, although I honestly thought it would be called "Dueling". Kind of like there's a card called Rival's Duel. I think Duel evokes more flavor than Fighting. Look at Arena, Magus of the Arena, etc.



Yeah, fighting is kind of a ridiculous keyword. After all, that's what they're supposed to be doing during the combat phase.

Sort of reminds of Pokémon, and the type that was 'fighting'. All the Pokémon were built to fight, making the 'fighting' type kind of redundant.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions.
Info on grad school in Phil.

 

This topic is 13 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13 

All times are PDT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Open Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  
Hop to:

Contact Us | MOTL Home Page | Privacy Statement & TOS

© 1996-2012 Magic Online Trading League

Powered by Infopop © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47e