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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
I guess the potential benefit hinges on WOTC's interpretation of "extra turn after this one"). If that works, then that makes it much more interesting to play with.

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I fail to see how that can have multiple interpretations or make the card more interesting. Play on my turn? Take 2 turns in a row. Play on your turn? Take 2 turns in a row. We've been able to take instant speed extra turns for a very long time now.

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
That's not necessarily true. Planeswalkers aren't legendary but are...

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That's so different, you can't even use that comparison.
PWs are a whole different card type.

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Originally posted by Devonin:
competitive magic players

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can read the cards

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
That's not necessarily true. Planeswalkers aren't legendary but are...

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Planeswalkers are different because they're a different card type altogether. Suppose someone came back to the game and never saw a Planeswalker or Miracle card. A planeswalker has an entire set of rules that need to be explained, and just looking at it, clearly is not one of the other card types. A miracle card, on the other hand, looks like a sorcery with a keyword, like madness. Nothing would trigger them to ask about it, so if there were restrictions, they could easily be cheated.

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Originally posted by caquaa:
I fail to see how that can have multiple interpretations or make the card more interesting. Play on my turn? Take 2 turns in a row. Play on your turn? Take 2 turns in a row. We've been able to take instant speed extra turns for a very long time now.

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Well, it hinges on the understanding of "this one". Typically, that would mean the current turn. When you draw it on your opponent's turn, the current turn is his/hers, not yours, which effectively negates the "extra", since the command on the card is issued under the assumption that it's already your turn.

But yeah, that's probably just the philosopher in me splitting logical hairs. My assumption is that ultimately WOTC wants you to take two turns regardless of when you draw the card.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:

Well, it hinges on the understanding of "this one". Typically, that would mean the current turn. When you draw it on your opponent's turn, the current turn is his/hers, not yours, which effectively negates the "extra", since the command on the card is issued under the assumption that it's already your turn.

But yeah, that's probably just the philosopher in me splitting logical hairs. My assumption is that ultimately WOTC wants you to take two turns regardless of when you draw the card.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
Seriously, stop overanalyzing the card. Go read the oracle rulings on Time Warp, Time Walk, and Time Stretch. It's extremely simple. There is an extra turn inserted after the current turn ends, and that extra turn belongs to the controller of the spell/ability that created the extra turn. End of story.

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Calm down, it was (pretty clearly, I thought) a throwaway remark.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
It doesn't prevent anything with Brainstorm, and it's only removed after successful casting, so a Witness or Noxious Revival could still grab it. In any case, I don't think the concern with it is for an infinite turn combo or long chains of turns (although given a decent hand and board state, two might be feasible), but rather for cheap extra turns (i.e. it's really, really easy to set up the Miracle Cost consistently without really changing anything in most blue decks).

But we'll see. I definitely think it should be banned, but I also think it should have some time to prove itself first.

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What i mean is, you can't go Timewalk, Ewitness bringing back my timewalk to my hand then brainstorm putting it back on top taking my extra turn and casting it again.

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
What i mean is, you can't go Timewalk, Ewitness bringing back my timewalk to my hand then brainstorm putting it back on top taking my extra turn and casting it again.

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
What i mean is, you can't go Timewalk, Ewitness bringing back my timewalk to my hand then brainstorm putting it back on top taking my extra turn and casting it again.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
That's exactly why the impact of temporal mastery is overblown, at least in legacy. Very few blue decks have the board presence by turns 3-4 to even make an extra turn backbreaking, and that's assuming your opponent was unable to kill/counter your delver or goyf. Yeah, a free explore is saucy, but so many decks in the format can punish the fact that you are diluting your deck with miracle cards. Hymn, inquisition, spell pierce, daze, etc. Spell pierce is rather hilarious, since it essentially gives the controller of spell pierce a time walk.

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I have to disagree. Rug delver more often than not will have a presence by turn 4. This card doesn't need to be recast over and over again to be amazing. One extra turn can easily affect how you block, attack, play your spells and most importantly win or lose.

The thing that makes it so good is it just fits into existing proven winning archetypes without any major overhaul. You stick 4 of these in RUG delver and take 4 cards out. You stick 4 of these into U/W Stoneblade and take 4 cards out. There's no need to change much else. Those decks are already good. This just makes them better.

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
You can't do that anyway, the card exiles itself upon resolution.

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Yes i know that's why i said TIME WALK not Temporal Mastery. If it didn't exile itself you could pull those shenanigans still.

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Todays cards are a bit boring compared to yesterday.

Sigarda, Host of Herons - 2GWW
Flying, Hexproof
5/5
Spells and abilities your opponents control can't cause you to sacrifice permanents

QUESTION TO ANYJUDGE HERE:

CAN A LEGEND RULE APPLY TO THIS CARD...THE CARD ITSELF STATE THAT "Spells and abilities your opponents control can't cause you to sacrifice permanents"...

SCENARIO 1:WHAT IF ONE OF MY OPPONENT CAST SPELLS SAME CARD NAME LIKE SIGARDA..IS MY SIGARDA ON PLAY DIED FOR LEGEND RULE WILL EFFECT. OR BOTH WILL BE PUT IN TO THE GRAVE.DO I NEED TO PUT MY SIGARDA IN GRAVEYARD..

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Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
Killing Wave (R)
XB
Sorcery
For each creature, its controller sacrifices
it unless he or she pays X life.

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I absolutely hate Wizards for printing this card. Not because it's either too good or too bad. Not because people will misread it, in a similar way that people misread Bond of Agony - Bond of Agony requires you to pay X mana AND X life, it's not a one card Channel+Fireball to win on turn 2 while Killing Wave requires the caster to pay X mana for the spell and requires BOTH players to pay X LIFE for each creature. Not because I think black needs more/less love.

I hate them for making another "punisher" card that will make people present stupid, ridiculous arguments for why this card is SO good, just like Blazing Salvo, Book Burning, Breaking Point, Browbeat, and Dash Hopes were all the subject of countless debates.

The card is only hours old and already I've seen people suggest that this card will be good, assuming there's a tutor effect like Treasure and Trinket Mage that allows you to search for spells with CMC = 1. And it will be good against aggro, because you can play it for 3 when they have 5 creatures out and no one would willingly pay 15 life to keep all their creatures. And it's good because you can play it in a black/red burn control deck where you're racing their creatures with burn spells and you play this for a lot and if they lose all their creatures, you win, and if they lose a bunch of life, you can burn them out for the win. And it's good when you're winning a creature race and and need to push through for the last few points of damage, so you use them to force them to lose life or lose blockers. And it's good when you're playing a control deck and you have enough life to pay for your finisher while also decimating their side of the board, because they're at low enough a life total that they can't keep most of their creatures.

In other words, it's really good in ridiculous, contrived situations that either don't exist, are highly unlikely to happen, or when you get to that state, you are already winning and playing this for X = 5, would be just as good as playing a Lava Axe or Bump in the Night plus flashback.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
The legend rule is separate from both destruction effects and sacrifice effects. Both the original and the copy will be put into the graveyard as a result of a state-based action.

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THANKS BUDDY,

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Originally posted by angelOFtorment:
THANKS BUDDY,

CAN MY OPPONENT COPY MY SIGARDA LIKE PHHYREXIAN METAMORM,CLONE OR PHANTASMAL IMAGE.SINCE SIGARDA IS HEXPROOF...

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Originally posted by angelOFtorment:
THANKS BUDDY,

CAN MY OPPONENT COPY MY SIGARDA LIKE PHHYREXIAN METAMORM,CLONE OR PHANTASMAL IMAGE.SINCE SIGARDA IS HEXPROOF...

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Clones dont target, so yes they can copy and subsequently kill Sigarda.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

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Originally posted by yakusoku:
... lots of valid points...

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Originally posted by yakusoku:
Phyrexian Metamorph, Clone, and Phantasmal Image do NOT target. They can copy a Sigarda just fine. Phyrexiam Metamorph and Phantasmal Image are commonly used in Standard to remove Thrun, the Last Troll or Geist of Saint Traft from the battlefield.

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thanks body,

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Originally posted by angelOFtorment:
thanks body,

one more thing if my opponent cast a spell lets say phantasmal image copying my sigarda..what type of creature has phantasmal image has..is it an illusion or legendary creature ANGEL...i'm a little bit confusing if tpye is legendary creature:angel then it i will be dead due to a legend rule..both phantasmal and sigarda...if not is phantasmal image is a creature type:illustion.

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