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Originally posted by helpmehelpyou:
guy trys to send me a package OCT 9th..
http://i.imgur.com/saZBj.jpg

wonder whats wrong lol

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I am soliciting ideas for my cube. No rares or mythics. The theme is cycles. All the cycles of mages (rav guilds, battlemages, etc), all the charms, and every spellshaper so far.

I need cycles of good cards that are t necessarily connected, like Lightning Bolt, Brainstorm, Swords to Plowshares, etc.

I appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218b

New Oversize Foils - Grimgrin, Mayael and Sliver Queen

Regular Foils - Duplicant, Command Tower, Chaos Warp, LOYAL RETAINER, and Dragonlair Spider (didn't even know that was a card, LOL)

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Who knows? What I do know is that this won't be sold at MSRP. I hate when things aren't sold at MSRP.

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Yea, looking at 400+ a box, and most stores getting MAYBE 4-6 of them....finding one of these will not be easy....if anything cards from this will be worth MORE then the originals simply for this reason....

Hoping and praying I can find one at MSRP otherwise I won't be getting one ..

Then, they go and announce a Modern incentive set, except that it will be "very limited" because "we are afraid of what happened 17 years ago with Chronicles".

Players want to play the game. Thanks Wizards for pandering to the whiny hoarder group.

I'm just about done with the game, many thousands of dollars later. I feel as if Wizards cares more about the collectors than the players. I'm a player first, collector second. Collectors don't keep this game alive, idiots. The game exploded in Popularity in Zendikar, and it wasn't because of the people that whined about the reserve list.

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
I'm pretty ****ed at Wizards right now, tbh. They have this really good thing going, tons of new players, then they release a super limited edition product for Commander players, that few commander players will actually be able to get.

Then, they go and announce a Modern incentive set, except that it will be "very limited" because "we are afraid of what happened 17 years ago with Chronicles".

Players want to play the game. Thanks Wizards for pandering to the whiny hoarder group.

I'm just about done with the game, many thousands of dollars later. I feel as if Wizards cares more about the collectors than the players. I'm a player first, collector second. Collectors don't keep this game alive, idiots. The game exploded in Popularity in Zendikar, and it wasn't because of the people that whined about the reserve list.

I want to be able to give my money in exchange for their products. I don't want to buy Commander's Arsenal on eBay, and I sure as hell don't want to pay $7 for a pack of Chronicles. Wizards can go **** themselves.

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I'm in mostly the same boat. I'm sick and tired of Wotc making it such a hassel to buy there product at a resonable price. I feel like I've been getting nickled and dimned for the last decade. And I'm not willing to take it much longer.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Who knows? What I do know is that this won't be sold at MSRP. I hate when things aren't sold at MSRP.

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Originally posted by wayne:
Does this include boosters?

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The only point at which Booster Packs are actually a product, with an MSRP and a unique SKU are as boosters. And if/when I buy single booster packs, I pay MSRP.

A Booster Box isn't an actual product. If you look at the box, it's clearly printed right on it (Along with NO MSRP) that it is a display box for 36 individual booster packs. The reason you can pay less than 144 dollars for a "box" is that what you're actually doing is making a bulk purchase of 36 packs (or 216 packs if you buy a case) and the idea of a business giving you a marginal discount per item when you buy a lot of them at once is hardly the same thing as them tripling, or quadrupling the MSRP because they know the product is so limited that someone will pay it.

Everybody with a brain in their head knows how this is going to go. Stores are going to charge triple or quadruple MSRP. Every single one will be bought by investors/speculators first, and maybe 10% of them will actually be opened, mostly by people who already have all the cards in it, in their original printings, and the other 90% will be put on eBay for quintuple or sextuple the MSRP.

And only people who already dropped 150 bucks on a loyal retainer will have copies of loyal retainer.

For months there was BOO HOO, I CAN'T AFFORD TO PLAY ETERNAL.

So they make Modern Masters to try and curb the price of eternal staples in their shiny new format that's just for those people who can't afford to play Legacy. Here's your chance to spend about as much as a regular box and open the cards you need for modern.

Still, boo hoo it's a limited print run. I guess you can't please everybody, but still.

They're not catering to the collector, they're trying to make a balance here. Lets give you access to the singles you want, make you a pretty cool cube style draft format, and not tank the value of the cards.

How many people would be out a bunch of money if they tanked the price of Goyf? I think that's why they won't ban it. Look at how many people are out like $200 or more.

They're even giving you some answers to Goyf and trying to curb demand that way. I think Deathrite Shaman was printed to do that. Whether it works or not is a different story, but they're doing work on it.

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
Man these guys can never win.

For months there was BOO HOO, I CAN'T AFFORD TO PLAY ETERNAL.

So they make Modern Masters to try and curb the price of eternal staples in their shiny new format that's just for those people who can't afford to play Legacy. Here's your chance to spend about as much as a regular box and open the cards you need for modern.

Still, boo hoo it's a limited print run. I guess you can't please everybody, but still.

They're not catering to the collector, they're trying to make a balance here. Lets give you access to the singles you want, make you a pretty cool cube style draft format, and not tank the value of the cards.

How many people would be out a bunch of money if they tanked the price of Goyf? I think that's why they won't ban it. Look at how many people are out like $200 or more.

They're even giving you some answers to Goyf and trying to curb demand that way. I think Deathrite Shaman was printed to do that. Whether it works or not is a different story, but they're doing work on it.

Above all else, this is a money grab for the brick and mortar stores. They keep their supply chain healthy.

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Originally posted by Bugger:
All I'll say is I'm verbally chokeslamming the next mouth-breather who thinks he's made a profound discovery by calling out Modern Masters as some sort of "cash grab" by WotC.

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If you were referring to me, I was calling it a cash grab for the local stores, not WoTC. Everything is a cash grab for WoTC.

Put crazy stuff in and people complain that they can't find it for MSRP.

Don't put crazy stuff in (FTV: Legends, DD: Ajani vs Nicol Bolas) and people complain that its barely worth the MSRP.

stu and hilikuS mentioned it already but WoTC knows what they're doing (most of the time). I wouldn't be surprised if they've done some kind of research on where the price threshold is for cards with relation to age and outrage on a reprint.

Reprinting a large enough quantity of Goyfs to bring the value down angers only those who bought in higher than the price it settles at.

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Originally posted by Devonin:
Oh look, the MSRP "You don't pay MSRP for boosters" argument again.

The only point at which Booster Packs are actually a product, with an MSRP and a unique SKU are as boosters. And if/when I buy single booster packs, I pay MSRP.

A Booster Box isn't an actual product. If you look at the box, it's clearly printed right on it (Along with NO MSRP) that it is a display box for 36 individual booster packs. The reason you can pay less than 144 dollars for a "box" is that what you're actually doing is making a bulk purchase of 36 packs (or 216 packs if you buy a case) and the idea of a business giving you a marginal discount per item when you buy a lot of them at once is hardly the same thing as them tripling, or quadrupling the MSRP because they know the product is so limited that someone will pay it.

Everybody with a brain in their head knows how this is going to go. Stores are going to charge triple or quadruple MSRP. Every single one will be bought by investors/speculators first, and maybe 10% of them will actually be opened, mostly by people who already have all the cards in it, in their original printings, and the other 90% will be put on eBay for quintuple or sextuple the MSRP.

And only people who already dropped 150 bucks on a loyal retainer will have copies of loyal retainer.

Also Ironic: People in this thread saying "I'm a player first and a collector second, and this limited printing of staple cards is pandering to collectors" when over in the Modern Masters thread there are people saying "I'm a collector first and a player second, and all this printing of new limited stuff sucks for collectors because now there's too many new things to collect"

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
If you were referring to me, I was calling it a cash grab for the local stores, not WoTC. Everything is a cash grab for WoTC.

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I wasn't. I woulda quoted you if I were haha.

That's the point, you're absolutely (if you'll pardon the pun) on the money! Everything is a cash grab by WotC! They're a business! it's what they do! It never fails to astound me how people will cough and retch at whatever the latest product line is and how it's clearly designed to make a profit for Wizards. That's the entire point, O Seer of Truths

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Originally posted by rats60:
Here comes the ignorant arguement from someone who doesn't understand business. Retailers look for ~ 50% profit margin on products. They don't get a discount buying by the box. So when they discount boxes, they are losing profit. These products are a chance to make up profit to get back to the 50% margin they need to survive. WOTC understands business, it's too bad you and many other players don't. If you don't like it, quit. It would make the rest of us happier if the cry babies just went away.

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Actually, I'm the general manager of a successful and profitable business. One that routinely offers substantial discounts for bulk purchases, and more than makes up for the loss per item on the increased volume of sales.

A box which sells as packs for 144 dollars would need to cost the store 95.00 to be a 50% markup. Even a box at 100 dollars would need to cost them 66.00 for a 50% markup. And since as near as I can tell, 60-70 IS about what they pay, they are making a 50% markup on the BOX, and a much larger one on individual packs.

"Making less profit" and "Offering a loss leader" are not remotely the same thing.

Now, the other thing to consider is that they are paying a price based on the MSRP of the product. If they are getting about a 50% margin on most merchandise from WOTC, and the Commander's Arsenal is MSRPing at 75.00, they are presumably paying about 50.00

If, as has been suspected by many in these threads, by people who claim to know a lot about these things, the stores will probably be selling the Arsenals for 200 dollars (Probably more now that one of the cards they spoiled is already currently over 100 dollars) that means a 400% markup.

So yeah, I can see how cutting their markup from 100% to only 50% or so on packs justifies increasing the markup on these from 50% to 400%

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Originally posted by Bugger:
I wasn't. I woulda quoted you if I were haha.

That's the point, you're absolutely (if you'll pardon the pun) on the money! Everything is a cash grab by WotC! They're a business! it's what they do! It never fails to astound me how people will cough and retch at whatever the latest product line is and how it's clearly designed to make a profit for Wizards. That's the entire point, O Seer of Truths

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It's corporate greed! Shame on them! Occupy Wizards!

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Originally posted by Devonin:
Actually, I'm the general manager of a successful and profitable business. One that routinely offers substantial discounts for bulk purchases, and more than makes up for the loss per item on the increased volume of sales.

A box which sells as packs for 144 dollars would need to cost the store 95.00 to be a 50% markup. Even a box at 100 dollars would need to cost them 66.00 for a 50% markup. And since as near as I can tell, 60-70 IS about what they pay, they are making a 50% markup on the BOX, and a much larger one on individual packs.

"Making less profit" and "Offering a loss leader" are not remotely the same thing.

Now, the other thing to consider is that they are paying a price based on the MSRP of the product. If they are getting about a 50% margin on most merchandise from WOTC, and the Commander's Arsenal is MSRPing at 75.00, they are presumably paying about 50.00

If, as has been suspected by many in these threads, by people who claim to know a lot about these things, the stores will probably be selling the Arsenals for 200 dollars (Probably more now that one of the cards they spoiled is already currently over 100 dollars) that means a 400% markup.

So yeah, I can see how cutting their markup from 100% to only 50% or so on packs justifies increasing the markup on these from 50% to 400%

And I'll understand even more when secondary market dealers buy them all at 200, and flip them for 400, because an 800% markup makes even more sense.

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Wrong. He's talking a 50% Gross Margin, which is calculated by sell price = cost/(1-GM). Margin and markup are not the same thing, with which, if you run a business, you should be very familiar. A $144 box needs to cost him no more than $72 for him to make margin.