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Author
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Topic: The Post For Magic Stuff #74
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hilikuS
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 11:07 AM
        
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
I'm just waiting for the day that their official corporate policy is "Any card that gets over 50 dollars that isn't on the reserve list gets reprinted by the next core set"Then Magic can actually be about deckbuilding and play.
Eh, it's not like you have to play a deck with a full set of Goyfs in Modern or Legacy. There will always be less expensive deck options, which most of the time might be just as good. That doesn't mean you MUST play Gofys to win. It just means they're just a really good option. IMO the game is already about those things. Saying that your ability to succeed is almost all about the size of your wallet is kind of a cop out. Especially in such diverse formats.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by hilikuS on October 23, 2012]
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rats60
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 11:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
Actually, I'm the general manager of a successful and profitable business. One that routinely offers substantial discounts for bulk purchases, and more than makes up for the loss per item on the increased volume of sales.A box which sells as packs for 144 dollars would need to cost the store 95.00 to be a 50% markup. Even a box at 100 dollars would need to cost them 66.00 for a 50% markup. And since as near as I can tell, 60-70 IS about what they pay, they are making a 50% markup on the BOX, and a much larger one on individual packs. "Making less profit" and "Offering a loss leader" are not remotely the same thing. Now, the other thing to consider is that they are paying a price based on the MSRP of the product. If they are getting about a 50% margin on most merchandise from WOTC, and the Commander's Arsenal is MSRPing at 75.00, they are presumably paying about 50.00 If, as has been suspected by many in these threads, by people who claim to know a lot about these things, the stores will probably be selling the Arsenals for 200 dollars (Probably more now that one of the cards they spoiled is already currently over 100 dollars) that means a 400% markup. So yeah, I can see how cutting their markup from 100% to only 50% or so on packs justifies increasing the markup on these from 50% to 400% And I'll understand even more when secondary market dealers buy them all at 200, and flip them for 400, because an 800% markup makes even more sense.
I find it hard to believe that any general manager doesn't know how to calculate a profit margin. Did you go to college? Any business, accounting or economics classes? Some business can survive on lower magins with high volume. In MTG, most of those are selling over the internet. There is a reason these sets aren't going to internet only sellers or that SCG doesn't get more than a normal store. There are also businesses that start with much higher margins and then discount some items when needed to get to their desired margins.
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Devonin
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 11:21 AM
When you pay 50 dollars for something and mark it up 50%, it is 75 dollars...where exactly was the failure here?Oh, the 50 to 200 is 400% bit, yeah I didn't bother to think about that. 300%, but that hardly changes my point.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Devonin on October 23, 2012]
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rats60
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 12:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
Now, the other thing to consider is that they are paying a price based on the MSRP of the product. If they are getting about a 50% margin on most merchandise from WOTC, and the Commander's Arsenal is MSRPing at 75.00, they are presumably paying about 50.00.
If they are getting a 50% profit margin that means that they are paying 37.50, not 50.00. Do you really expect us to believe you know about retail?
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Devonin
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 12:32 PM
Margin and Markup are not the same words. Paying 37.50 and selling for 75 is a 100% increase, not a 50% increase. 50% of the total sale is profit, but the markup is 100%.
[Edited 2 times, lastly by Devonin on October 23, 2012]
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rats60
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 01:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
Margin and Markup are not the same words. Paying 37.50 and selling for 75 is a 100% increase, not a 50% increase. 50% of the total sale is profit, but the markup is 100%.
Who said they were? That would be you who doesn't know the difference and has used the two interchangably. I've never used the word markup, I've only talked about profit margin. You obviously don't have the education to continue this discussion.
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Devonin
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 03:15 PM
Maybe if I call his credentials into question loudly enough, I can ignore his point!
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Mr.C
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 06:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
Also Ironic: People in this thread saying "I'm a player first and a collector second, and this limited printing of staple cards is pandering to collectors" when over in the Modern Masters thread there are people saying "I'm a collector first and a player second, and all this printing of new limited stuff sucks for collectors because now there's too many new things to collect"
If you're going to call me out, then call me out. Not "some people said". Both products are awesome, but the distribution is awful. A product like Commander's Arsenal shouldn't be impossible to get. A product like Modern Masters, which is supposed to be a Modern incentive set, shouldn't be a "very limited" print run. I'm saying again, collectors don't keep the game afloat, players do. See other CCGs for reference. For me, this isn't a question of cost. Its purely a question of availability.
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Volcanon
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 07:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.C:
If you're going to call me out, then call me out. Not "some people said".Both products are awesome, but the distribution is awful. A product like Commander's Arsenal shouldn't be impossible to get. A product like Modern Masters, which is supposed to be a Modern incentive set, shouldn't be a "very limited" print run. I'm saying again, collectors don't keep the game afloat, players do. See other CCGs for reference. For me, this isn't a question of cost. Its purely a question of availability.
Yeah, the cost of this set is stupid. The Commander decks weren't short-printed. You could find them for retail in stores for an entire season. If this is supposed to be like the Commander decks there's no justification for them to be extremely short-printed. It's kind of odd to promote a set and then short-print it. Is Modern Masters going to be sold $20 a pack retail because stores know people will buy it hoping for an ultra-rare new-art tarmogoyf? quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
I'm just waiting for the day that their official corporate policy is "Any card that gets over 50 dollars that isn't on the reserve list gets reprinted by the next core set"Then Magic can actually be about deckbuilding and play.
Good in short run. Bad in long run. Look at yugioh. They reprint $200 rares as commons regularly in order to sell new product. In doing so they destroyed most of the game's collectibility and have caused dealers to sell out or price high in order to either avoid or cover the inevitable losses associated with reprints. Or stop dealing. Reprint Pack: $3.99
Reprint Set: $49.99
Murdering your secondary market: Priceless
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Volcanon on October 23, 2012]
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dwiz
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 07:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.C:
If you're going to call me out, then call me out. Not "some people said".Both products are awesome, but the distribution is awful. A product like Commander's Arsenal shouldn't be impossible to get. A product like Modern Masters, which is supposed to be a Modern incentive set, shouldn't be a "very limited" print run. I'm saying again, collectors don't keep the game afloat, players do. See other CCGs for reference. For me, this isn't a question of cost. Its purely a question of availability.
I don't understand how "very limited" and "made to be drafted" can coexist. It's bad enough that a draft of this will probably cost $25, but if it's "very limited" how is that possible? When a GP has 2,000 people playing in it (with 6,000 boosters) how is that "very limited?"
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Devonin
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 07:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.C:
If you're going to call me out, then call me out. Not "some people said".
Except I wasn't calling you out. I wasn't even expressing agreement or disagreement with any side of the issue. I was just pointing out that I found it funny that there would be "Limited Things like this are for collectors and screw players" and also "Limited Things like this screw collectors" at the same time.
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oneofchaos
Member
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posted October 23, 2012 11:17 PM
What is ok with me: Having cards like goyf reprinted if the next decent planeswalker doesn't set me back 50 bucks in standard. Otherwise I want my goyf to maintain it's value so I don't have to feel bad that every standard card loses its value. Also if they didn't print mythics goyf would be only a rare in modern masters. It's tough. Part of me wants everyone to have every single card. Another part of me knows it took me 7 years to collect all 40 duals. Standard has gotten fairly pricey over the last few years, not quite sure I'm too keen on the way magic is going.
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stu55
Member
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posted October 24, 2012 01:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dwiz:
I don't understand how "very limited" and "made to be drafted" can coexist. It's bad enough that a draft of this will probably cost $25, but if it's "very limited" how is that possible? When a GP has 2,000 people playing in it (with 6,000 boosters) how is that "very limited?"
You think 6000 boosters is a lot? And it is closer to 15000 boosters, which is still not a lot
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Zakman86
Member
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posted October 24, 2012 03:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stu55:
You think 6000 boosters is a lot? And it is closer to 15000 boosters, which is still not a lot
2000 players = 12,000 boosters day 1. Then 6 boosters/player Day 2.
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yakusoku
Member
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posted October 26, 2012 11:28 PM
I had my best FNM in a long time.I opened up Rakdos in pack 1, pick 1. Pack 2, pick 3: FOIL Rakdos's Return Pack 3, pick 1: Steam Vents I went undefeated with this: Rakdos Cackler (FOIL!)
Ash Zealot
Gore-House Chainwalker
Thrill-Kill Assassin
Grim Roustabout x4
Dread Reveler
Splatter Thug
Cryptborn Horror
Guttersnipe
Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Spawn of Rix Maadi
Golgari Longlegs Underworld Connections
Augur Spree
Ultimate Price x2
Traitorous Instinct
Rakdos's Return
Rakdos Charm One game I was on the play and did this: Turn 1: Mountain, Rakdos Cackler
Turn 2: Swamp, Grim Roustabout, attack for 2
Turn 3: Mountain, attack for 4, play Cryptborn Horror as a 4/4. He scooped pretty quickly after that start. I got four packs and in the very first pack I opened, I got a Blood Crypt. Pretty good for an initial $10 entry free.
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choco man
Member
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posted October 27, 2012 12:12 AM
$10 drafts are awesome. Especially with prize(s) structure like that.Store where I moved to doesn't even run drafts because they are short on RtR and want be able to sell the product. My first FNM at new city was disappointing.
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oneofchaos
Member
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posted October 27, 2012 01:49 AM
Speaking of drafts for the first time in my life, I have a ton of friends who hate our LGS and give me money to buy boxes and run drafts. We've done a few RTR and they want to take a break and try something else. What are reasonable sets to buy boxes of to draft?
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caquaa
Member
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posted October 27, 2012 02:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
Speaking of drafts for the first time in my life, I have a ton of friends who hate our LGS and give me money to buy boxes and run drafts. We've done a few RTR and they want to take a break and try something else. What are reasonable sets to buy boxes of to draft?
ravnica block
3x zendikar
3x shards of alara
Lorwyn + morningtide those were the sets i had some of the most fun drafting. big problem is that older boxes aren't cheap. If they're willing to put up a few extra bucks, it can be worth while.
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Drexus
Member
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posted October 27, 2012 03:10 AM
I'd add RoE to that list, really fun set to draft
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caquaa
Member
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posted October 27, 2012 03:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Drexus:
I'd add RoE to that list, really fun set to draft
lots of people liked this set. I thought it was one of the worst draft formats in quite a long while. To each their own I suppose.
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stab107
Member
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posted October 27, 2012 06:05 AM
RoE is my favorite draft format. I have been drafting heavily since SoA and that was a good one too. I recently picked up an RoE box for $180 so they are out there. Not sure what SoA boxes go for but that one is next on my list. I have seen Ravnica boxes going for $350- $400, no way would I ever draft something that expensive.
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Drexus
Member
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posted October 27, 2012 06:08 AM
Thought it was a really diverse and balanced set to draft - two factors which I think make or break a draft set. Did most of it on mtgo and even with the odd times when you had to tap 8 mana each turn to use the white invoker (and subsequently losing on time when you've got your opponent locked!) still really enjoyed it. That's in contrast to AVR, which imo is one of the worst draft sets.
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walkerdog
Member
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posted October 27, 2012 06:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
lots of people liked this set. I thought it was one of the worst draft formats in quite a long while. To each their own I suppose.
It is one of the 2-3 best draft formats ever. And whoever said ZZZ is smoking crack... that is not worth the expense for a mediocre draft format. LLL, LLM (if you want to get a box of morningtide), Triple Alara, and RGD are all fantastic formats (although Alara is the weakest of them), any of those and ROE are all basically the best formats we've had to draft in in a while.
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Zeckk
Member
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posted October 27, 2012 06:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
I'm just waiting for the day that their official corporate policy is "Any card that gets over 50 dollars that isn't on the reserve list gets reprinted by the next core set"Then Magic can actually be about deckbuilding and play.
You think that isn't already happening? Here's a fun exercise - count how many cards from coldsnap to RTR that have a current market value of $50 or more. It's less than 5. Hell, you could make the case that it's 2 - goyf and JTMS. It's just a matter of time before JTMS gets judge foil or FTV - Walkin' the Planes treatment.
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caquaa
Member
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posted October 27, 2012 07:17 AM
I still don't understand why people like RoE. It was essentially a combo deck format. Your deck could be better then your opponents deck, but they could just combo out faster. You have the lever deck w/ the dudes that add counters or the pump enchantment, you have eldrazi spawn into eldrazi, eldrazi spawn shenanigans with raid bombardment or the broodwarden, etc. I'm love playing combo, I just hate when the games aren't very interactive and each person is trying to do their own thing and first to do so wins. Dunno, maybe people just played this format wrong and just played random good cards and actually did interact.ZZZ was amazing because of the power level of the cards. It forced you to play tight because the matches were typically fairly close and if you weren't careful you could just die on the back swing.
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