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Author Topic:   New Planeswalker in Gatecrash... (spoiler alert)
WeedIan
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posted December 27, 2012 05:44 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
Extort looks bonkers if they put it on any cheap creatures

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MAB_Rapper
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posted December 27, 2012 05:57 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for MAB_Rapper Click Here to Email MAB_Rapper Send a private message to MAB_Rapper Click to send MAB_Rapper an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View MAB_Rapper's Trade Auction or SaleView MAB_Rapper's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
Extort looks bonkers if they put it on any cheap creatures


That looks bonkers in Commander, where you will almost have extra mana.

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Pail42
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posted December 27, 2012 06:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Pail42's Have/Want ListView Pail42's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
The fact that it uses +1/+1 counters is completely irrelevant to a discussion of the fitness of the mechanic as a U/G mechanic. They could have created a new thing, Evolution Counters, and just had the primary function of evolution counters be to give +1/+1 and suddenly it would be a cool new thing that fit great with the colours. You're adding counters, moving them around in a way that modifies and improves things.

If they were evolution counters and each creature could react differently I would be very happy with the mechanic.

 
Link139232
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posted December 27, 2012 11:52 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Link139232 Click Here to Email Link139232 Send a private message to Link139232 Click to send Link139232 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Link139232's Have/Want ListView Link139232's Have/Want List
I will not play Extort unless the creature is costed at 2 or less, and has either Hexproof or Protection From Red. Also, it could be printed on a land or enchantment, which would increase its playability.
 
marlo213
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posted December 27, 2012 11:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for marlo213 Send a private message to marlo213 Click to send marlo213 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View marlo213's Have/Want ListView marlo213's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Link139232:
I will not play Extort unless the creature is costed at 2 or less, and has either Hexproof or Protection From Red. Also, it could be printed on a land or enchantment, which would increase its playability.

It must also have a p/t of 4/4 with a leave play ability if it were a creature. It also can't be worth more than $2 since I don't want to Wizards to gauge me for all of my hard earned money when all they do is run stuff through a printer

 
MagicPatty
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posted December 27, 2012 12:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for MagicPatty Click Here to Email MagicPatty Send a private message to MagicPatty Click to send MagicPatty an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View MagicPatty's Have/Want ListView MagicPatty's Have/Want List
Never mind the extort, the creature is solid! And come on guys, the idea is that you return creatures from your graveyard that are black and/or white, so you get to cast cheap B/W cards and extort them while doing so.

It's card advantage with some drain life action, very sweet in limited, and a fine card for 6 mana.

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Devonin
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posted December 27, 2012 02:20 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
If they were evolution counters and each creature could react differently I would be very happy with the mechanic.

There's already one that draws cards every time it evolves. Who is to say there won't be ones that deal damage, gain abilities, gain life, etc etc etc?

 
Link139232
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posted December 27, 2012 02:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Link139232 Click Here to Email Link139232 Send a private message to Link139232 Click to send Link139232 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Link139232's Have/Want ListView Link139232's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by marlo213:
It must also have a p/t of 4/4 with a leave play ability if it were a creature. It also can't be worth more than $2 since I don't want to Wizards to gauge me for all of my hard earned money when all they do is run stuff through a printer

Nice.

Did we forget Smiter is a 4/4 uncounterable for 3 with the discard ability? A 1/3 or 0/2 or something for BW with extort and pro red is really not absurd. There are so many playables right now, which is why I said it would require something solid for me to consider playing it.

Maybe think about improving the quality of your posts here

 
JayC
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posted December 27, 2012 02:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JayC Click Here to Email JayC Send a private message to JayC Click to send JayC an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View JayC's Have/Want ListView JayC's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Link139232:
Nice.

Did we forget Smiter is a 4/4 uncounterable for 3 with the discard ability? A 1/3 or 0/2 or something for BW with extort and pro red is really not absurd. There are so many playables right now, which is why I said it would require something solid for me to consider playing it.

Maybe think about improving the quality of your posts here


This ^

 
marlo213
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posted December 27, 2012 03:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for marlo213 Send a private message to marlo213 Click to send marlo213 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View marlo213's Have/Want ListView marlo213's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Link139232:
Nice.

Did we forget Smiter is a 4/4 uncounterable for 3 with the discard ability? A 1/3 or 0/2 or something for BW with extort and pro red is really not absurd. There are so many playables right now, which is why I said it would require something solid for me to consider playing it.

Maybe think about improving the quality of your posts here


Are you just saying random stuff because it amuses you?

 
Demilio
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posted December 27, 2012 03:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Demilio Click Here to Email Demilio Send a private message to Demilio Click to send Demilio an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Demilio's Have/Want ListView Demilio's Have/Want List
I like the orzhov card a lot for EDH. The extort ability isn't really what excites me (although nice), it's the return from graveyard ability which is fantastic. The art does seem a bit phallic like armada wurm though.. heh

 
Pail42
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posted December 27, 2012 05:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Pail42's Have/Want ListView Pail42's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
There's already one that draws cards every time it evolves. Who is to say there won't be ones that deal damage, gain abilities, gain life, etc etc etc?

I'm sure there will be lots of creatures (especially blue ones) that do stuff when they evolve, but because it's also a 1/1 counter it means that each of those abilities generally needs to be less powerful than if it was just some generic counter that didn't also give a power/toughness boost.

 
daner
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posted December 27, 2012 05:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for daner Click Here to Email daner Send a private message to daner Click to send daner an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View daner's Have/Want ListView daner's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
That looks bonkers in Commander, where you will almost have extra mana.


It's also bonkers in limited. If you get to untap and attack with it once it's already borderline 3 for 1 probably.

I'm gonna be hard pressed choosing my guild. I'm partial to bw and ub.

 
Link139232
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posted December 27, 2012 06:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Link139232 Click Here to Email Link139232 Send a private message to Link139232 Click to send Link139232 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Link139232's Have/Want ListView Link139232's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by marlo213:
Are you just saying random stuff because it amuses you?

How is any of my post 'random'? You have zero refs and low post count and start trolling on the forums. You will surely have a short stay in this community if you continue to act like that.

As for the other bit, I was comparing power levels on cards because your other post clearly demonstrated that I was asking too much out of Extort.

Lastly, yeah, the extort mechanic on a decent midrange body will be probably first pickable in draft. Adding Last Kiss effects to all of your spells can break up the frequent board stalls we encounter at some point or another. In sealed, it is surely even better, since games are generally slower either way.

 
Zeckk
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posted December 27, 2012 06:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zeckk Click Here to Email Zeckk Send a private message to Zeckk Click to send Zeckk an Instant MessageVisit Zeckk's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Zeckk's Have/Want ListView Zeckk's Have/Want List
Just for perspective, lobber crew is a top 5 red pick at common for current RTR drafting. Extort definitely powerful, though likely we will only see 1-2 cards that are constructed playable from the start. Ask yourself how many detain cards are currently seeing constructed play. Heck, outside of rakdos cackler and dreg mangler, there are nearly zero cards showcasing current guild mechanics in competitive standard right now.
 
Link139232
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posted December 27, 2012 07:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Link139232 Click Here to Email Link139232 Send a private message to Link139232 Click to send Link139232 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Link139232's Have/Want ListView Link139232's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Zeckk:
Just for perspective, lobber crew is a top 5 red pick at common for current RTR drafting. Extort definitely powerful, though likely we will only see 1-2 cards that are constructed playable from the start. Ask yourself how many detain cards are currently seeing constructed play. Heck, outside of rakdos cackler and dreg mangler, there are nearly zero cards showcasing current guild mechanics in competitive standard right now.

Rootborn Defenses
Cyclonic Rift
Gore-House Chainwalker
Mizzium Mortars


I mean, I don't disagree with you, but these do see play. I guess detain is really the only one that doesn't. I guess the main point is that we should hope that at least 1-2 cards with each mechanic will see constructed play.

 
walkerdog
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posted December 27, 2012 07:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for walkerdog Click Here to Email walkerdog Send a private message to walkerdog Click to send walkerdog an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View walkerdog's Have/Want ListView walkerdog's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Link139232:
Rootborn Defenses
Cyclonic Rift
Gore-House Chainwalker
Mizzium Mortars


I mean, I don't disagree with you, but these do see play. I guess detain is really the only one that doesn't. I guess the main point is that we should hope that at least 1-2 cards with each mechanic will see constructed play.


I would say that citing 3 cards that are VERY infrequently 4x in top decks and 1 that is a roleplayer in 1 (maybe 2?) deck isn't exactly "seeing play".

 
Link139232
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posted December 27, 2012 08:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Link139232 Click Here to Email Link139232 Send a private message to Link139232 Click to send Link139232 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Link139232's Have/Want ListView Link139232's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by walkerdog:
I would say that citing 3 cards that are VERY infrequently 4x in top decks and 1 that is a roleplayer in 1 (maybe 2?) deck isn't exactly "seeing play".

Rootborn is a sideboard card at best, Cyclonic is a very strong 1-of in control decks, Mortars doesn't see much play at all anymore, and Chainwalker is generally a 4-of in a lot of RDW and RB decks.

Hence why I didn't disagree with him :P

Here's hoping for some playables in Gatecrash!

 
skizzikmonger
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posted December 27, 2012 09:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Cipher is the new Dimir mechanic
 
marlo213
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posted December 28, 2012 06:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for marlo213 Send a private message to marlo213 Click to send marlo213 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View marlo213's Have/Want ListView marlo213's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Link139232:
How is any of my post 'random'? You have zero refs and low post count and start trolling on the forums. You will surely have a short stay in this community if you continue to act like that.

As for the other bit, I was comparing power levels on cards because your other post clearly demonstrated that I was asking too much out of Extort.

Lastly, yeah, the extort mechanic on a decent midrange body will be probably first pickable in draft. Adding Last Kiss effects to all of your spells can break up the frequent board stalls we encounter at some point or another. In sealed, it is surely even better, since games are generally slower either way.


You statement seemed ridiculous considering we have one card spoiled with the mechanic. And your smiter example was random because you know that the playability of a card is very meta/synergy dependent. So yes the smiter isn't seeing play right now, but if a good discard deck becomes dominant than the smiter will triple+ in price overnight. The smiter is simply meta bad right now (cavern of souls doesn't help either).

But to be honest though, I don't see extort cards being too amazing overall because the ability can be too abusive and Wizards don't usually make very good constructed cards with abusive abilities after affinity

The dimir ability looks insane right now though. Maybe a hymn that cost one more?

 
MagicPatty
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posted December 28, 2012 07:12 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for MagicPatty Click Here to Email MagicPatty Send a private message to MagicPatty Click to send MagicPatty an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View MagicPatty's Have/Want ListView MagicPatty's Have/Want List
Cipher seems strong. Any cipher card has Invisible Stalker as its go-to guy for repeat casting... solid.

That said, never mind the cipher. This is Windfall for one more mana, and two colors in the cost. Seems like a fine way of balancing a card that is banned in legacy, except the whole cipher part that has the potential to make it bonkers. Pretty neat card and ability!

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Zeckk
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posted December 28, 2012 10:18 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zeckk Click Here to Email Zeckk Send a private message to Zeckk Click to send Zeckk an Instant MessageVisit Zeckk's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Zeckk's Have/Want ListView Zeckk's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by MagicPatty:
Cipher seems strong. Any cipher card has Invisible Stalker as its go-to guy for repeat casting... solid.

That said, never mind the cipher. This is Windfall for one more mana, and two colors in the cost. Seems like a fine way of balancing a card that is banned in legacy, except the whole cipher part that has the potential to make it bonkers. Pretty neat card and ability!


Windfall is a lot less powerful in a card pool without the "free" spells you have access to in legacy. It's the same reason that new miracle wheel of fortune isn't really seeing play (or temporal master for that matter).

I think we need to see more cipher cards before we discuss the playability of it. If it's just going to be more mill stuff, then I'm not interested. If we get something like a 2-mana disfigure that can be ciphered onto a creature... then we might have something constructed playable.

 
Link139232
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posted December 28, 2012 10:32 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Link139232 Click Here to Email Link139232 Send a private message to Link139232 Click to send Link139232 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Link139232's Have/Want ListView Link139232's Have/Want List
Invisible Stalker + Windfall = TRAP.

My guess is that people will try playing UBx mill. I mean, its not completely unreasonable. Esper control might be able to use Mutilate now that we get Graves and Shrines. I still think Verdict and Terminus are strictly better though.

 
fluffycow
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posted December 28, 2012 02:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for fluffycow Click Here to Email fluffycow Send a private message to fluffycow Click to send fluffycow an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View fluffycow's Have/Want ListView fluffycow's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Link139232:
Invisible Stalker + Windfall = TRAP.

My guess is that people will try playing UBx mill. I mean, its not completely unreasonable. Esper control might be able to use Mutilate now that we get Graves and Shrines. I still think Verdict and Terminus are strictly better though.


I don't know, I think it would be a lot of fun if you can pull off some weird deck where you unsummon all of their stuff and then windfall twice the first turn, then just keep returning their stuff and windfalling. Doesn't sound tier 1 at all, but definitely FNM goodness

 
Zeckk
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posted December 28, 2012 04:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zeckk Click Here to Email Zeckk Send a private message to Zeckk Click to send Zeckk an Instant MessageVisit Zeckk's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Zeckk's Have/Want ListView Zeckk's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by fluffycow:
I don't know, I think it would be a lot of fun if you can pull off some weird deck where you unsummon all of their stuff and then windfall twice the first turn, then just keep returning their stuff and windfalling. Doesn't sound tier 1 at all, but definitely FNM goodness

Well snapcaster IS a card, and there are a host of flashback cards that are constructed playable. It's entirely possible to run a deck that focuses entirely on tempo in order to make this particular cipher worthwhile, but right now it's not enough to build a deck around.

 

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