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Author Topic:   The Rulings and Questions Thread, Part 54--Post ALL Your Rules Questions Here
rockondon
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posted April 19, 2013 09:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for rockondon Click Here to Email rockondon Send a private message to rockondon Click to send rockondon an Instant MessageVisit rockondon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rockondon's Have/Want ListView rockondon's Have/Want List
I have melek, izzet paragon and at least 7 lands in play.

If I manage to make the top two cards turnabout (top) and memory lapse (2nd from top), is it possible to turn this into an infinite mana combo?
Perhaps by having memory lapse resolve first, targeting turnabout, followed by the memory lapse copy targeting memory lapse, putting both cards back on top of the library with only the turnabout copy spell resolving. Yeah I know that's confusing.

 
thror
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posted April 19, 2013 10:20 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Sadly, no. Ill use a stack diagram and show you why.

Turnabout copy
Turnabout

**cast memory lapse, get a copy.**

Memory Lapse copy, targeting memory lapse
Memory Lapse, targeting actual turnabout
Turnabout copy
Turnabout

Here's the issue. The copy memory lapse always goes on top of the stack. If it targets the actual memory lapse, then that wont be there to put Turnabout back.

Even if you could switch them, then the real memory lapse would resolve, and be put into your graveyard. the memory lapse copy wouldnt be able to put real memory lapse back.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
rockondon
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posted April 19, 2013 12:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for rockondon Click Here to Email rockondon Send a private message to rockondon Click to send rockondon an Instant MessageVisit rockondon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rockondon's Have/Want ListView rockondon's Have/Want List
Okay well can I at least have the two memory lapses target each other and tear a hole through the time-space continuum?
 
flam flawless
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posted April 19, 2013 04:58 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for flam flawless Click Here to Email flam flawless Send a private message to flam flawless Click to send flam flawless an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Ok. Aurelia out & relentless assault or the enchantment from onslaught out. Do both trigger separately or do they stack giving you >2 attacks?
 
Devonin
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posted April 19, 2013 07:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
You'd attack with Aurelia, then after combat, you get the extra combat phase from attacking with her. Then after that one, you go into your second main phase, cast relentless assault, which will give you another attack phase after that main phase.

 
flam flawless
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posted April 19, 2013 09:05 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for flam flawless Click Here to Email flam flawless Send a private message to flam flawless Click to send flam flawless an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I appreciate the response. I cant remember the name of the card from onslaught that gave them relentless assault ability as an enchantment. That was the main question I wanted to ask. Would they go off in the same swing or stack and have 2 swings?
 
Devonin
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posted April 20, 2013 04:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
Aurelia while in a combat phase causes another combat phase to happen. Relentless Assault, in a main phase, causes there to be another combat phase afterwards. You only get more combat with Relentless Assault if you cast it in a main phase.

So the effective way to use it is like this:

Main Phase
Combat Phase (Aurelia Attacks, making more combat)
Combat Phase
Main Phase (Cast Relentless Assault)
Combat Phase
Main Phase

Aggravated Assault is the enchantment, and says 3RR: Untap all your creatures, have another attack phase and main phase, cast only as a sorcery.

YOu can actually use it multiple times if you have enough mana to keep activating it.

So if you had 6RRRR available you could go

Main Phase
Combat Phase (Aurelia attacks)
Combat Phase (From Aurelia)
Main Phase (Activate Aggravated Assault)
Combat Phase
Main Phase (Activate Aggravated Assault again)
Combat Phase
Main Phase

Also, I misunderstood what you meant by the timing and stacking, since both Assault cards are sorcery speed and you generally do them in post-combat main phase.

Relentless Assault, if you had a way to cast a sorcery during combat (Orrery etc) wouldn't do anything. Ruling from Gatherer:

04/10/2004 It only creates an additional combat and main phase if it resolves during a main phase.

Aggravated Assault, which you could activate in combat with an Orrery etc, would stack with Aurelia. Each one adds "an additional combat step" so they stack in the same that gaining multiple extra turns at once stack one after the other.

[Edited 3 times, lastly by Devonin on April 20, 2013]

 
flam flawless
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posted April 20, 2013 07:57 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for flam flawless Click Here to Email flam flawless Send a private message to flam flawless Click to send flam flawless an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Excellent! That was What I was trying to ask yet having a hard time doing it. Thanks!
 
achaye
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posted April 28, 2013 12:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for achaye Send a private message to achaye Click to send achaye an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If an opponent has a Void Maw and I have a Rest in Peace in play, what happens when creatures die?
 
Devonin
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posted April 28, 2013 02:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
If you control both Void Maw and Rest in Peace, you control two replacement effects that are both trying to replace "Is put into the graveyard from the battlefield" with "Exile" so you could apply them in whichever order you wanted, and the second attempt to exile the card would fail because the card has already been exiled.

Since they control Void Maw and you control Rest In Peace, it depends upon who is the active player when the creature dies. APNAP says whichever one of your turns it is NOT will be the one whose card's replacement effect goes on the stack second, and thus resolves first.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Devonin on April 28, 2013]

 
achaye
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posted April 28, 2013 03:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for achaye Send a private message to achaye Click to send achaye an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
That makes sense, thanks!

Second question, about passive effects. If I have a Goblin Chieftain (2/2) in play with another Goblin that's a 2/2, that 2/2 goblin would become 3/3 (2/2 with a +1/+1 effect from the chief).

What if an opponent casts Infest? It would give both goblins -2/-2 until end of turn. The Chieftain would die because it doesn't get its own buff. What would happen to the other goblin though? Does it become 1/1 until end of turn, or does it die because losing the chief turns it back to 2/2, and Infest kills it with -2/-2?

 
thror
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posted April 28, 2013 05:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
all creatures get -2/-2. state based effects see a 0/0 chieftain, send him to the graveyard, and his buff stops applying. state based effects check again (because something in game happened), and now see another 0/0 goblin, which is also put into the graveyard.

both will get sent to the graveyard.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
<@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers
<KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep

 
Leeroy
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posted April 28, 2013 07:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Leeroy Click Here to Email Leeroy Send a private message to Leeroy Click to send Leeroy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
Since they control Void Maw and you control Rest In Peace, it depends upon who is the active player when the creature dies. APNAP says whichever one of your turns it is NOT will be the one whose card's replacement effect goes on the stack second, and thus resolves first.

No, replacement effects don't work this way. Controller of the creature that dies always gets to choose which effect applies first.

quote:
616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply ...
 
mcelraca
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posted April 30, 2013 09:57 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for mcelraca Click Here to Email mcelraca Send a private message to mcelraca Click to send mcelraca an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mcelraca's Have/Want ListView mcelraca's Have/Want List
Does this work?

Opponent: Plays instant or sorcery spell
Me: cast a counter spell targeting original spell.
Me: in response to my other cast, cast reverberate copying original spell

Does this work so I basically steal their spell?

 
walkerdog
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posted April 30, 2013 10:00 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for walkerdog Click Here to Email walkerdog Send a private message to walkerdog Click to send walkerdog an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View walkerdog's Have/Want ListView walkerdog's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by mcelraca:
Does this work?

Opponent: Plays instant or sorcery spell
Me: cast a counter spell targeting original spell.
Me: in response to my other cast, cast reverberate copying original spell

Does this work so I basically steal their spell?


Your opponent casts instant/sorc, and it goes on the stack.

You put your counter on the stack, keeping priority, and put reverberate on the stack. Reverberate resolves first - the effect of his spell that you copied occurs - say lightning bolt, does 3 dmg to what you target. Then your counterspell resolves.

You could also reverb it, resolve reverb, and then counter his spell.

 
B14ckM4g3
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posted May 02, 2013 12:25 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for B14ckM4g3 Click Here to Email B14ckM4g3 Send a private message to B14ckM4g3 Click to send B14ckM4g3 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
alright EDH question time:

I have a mono-white artifact deck.
I play a batterskull (if it's legal - part 2 will explain)
Batterskull gives me a black 0/0 token attatched to batterskull. Is this legal? Does the token fizzle?

I should probably know these rules, but EDH is new to me

 
choco man
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posted May 02, 2013 02:14 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for choco man Click Here to Email choco man Send a private message to choco man Click to send choco man an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by B14ckM4g3:
alright EDH question time:

I have a mono-white artifact deck.
I play a batterskull (if it's legal - part 2 will explain)
Batterskull gives me a black 0/0 token attatched to batterskull. Is this legal? Does the token fizzle?

I should probably know these rules, but EDH is new to me


It's legal and you keep your token

Just like how any color deck can play Dark Depths.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by choco man on May 02, 2013]

 
B14ckM4g3
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posted May 02, 2013 11:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for B14ckM4g3 Click Here to Email B14ckM4g3 Send a private message to B14ckM4g3 Click to send B14ckM4g3 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thanks Chocoman. I'm just getting into edh and wanted to make sure that it was legal.
 
keywacat
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posted May 03, 2013 04:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for keywacat Click Here to Email keywacat Send a private message to keywacat Click to send keywacat an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View keywacat's Have/Want ListView keywacat's Have/Want List
Ciao;

I'd like to confirm something before it comes up, that is I can Momentary Blink a Meddling Mage in response to a spell being cast to effectively counter it.

Cheers for the confirmation either way.

 
thror
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posted May 03, 2013 04:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by keywacat:
Ciao;

I'd like to confirm something before it comes up, that is I can Momentary Blink a Meddling Mage in response to a spell being cast to effectively counter it.

Cheers for the confirmation either way.


no, you cant. Mage only prevents spells from being cast, once it is actually cast, mage doesnt do anything. it never works as a counterspell.

gatherer:

5/1/2009 Spells with the chosen name that somehow happen to already be on the stack when Meddling Mage enters the battlefield are not affected by Meddling Mage's ability.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
<@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers
<KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep

 
revenger
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posted May 05, 2013 11:12 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for revenger Click Here to Email revenger Click to send revenger an Instant MessageVisit revenger's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View revenger's Have/Want ListView revenger's Have/Want List
Does Melira effectivly nullify Curse of Death's Hold?

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thror
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posted May 05, 2013 11:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by revenger:
Does Melira effectivly nullify Curse of Death's Hold?


not to be mean, but i think every question of yours i've answered is a result of you not reading the cards completely.

Melira stops -1/-1 COUNTERS. curse doesnt give counters, it just makes them smaller. melira doesnt do anything.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
<@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers
<KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep

 
revenger
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posted May 05, 2013 02:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for revenger Click Here to Email revenger Click to send revenger an Instant MessageVisit revenger's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View revenger's Have/Want ListView revenger's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:

Melira stops -1/-1 COUNTERS. curse doesnt give counters, it just makes them smaller. melira doesnt do anything.


This would have sufficed from you sir. Thanks!

__________________
28th in refs on Motl!

#1 Ref's for Arizona!

I offer 3rd party trading services. Email if interested.

Your 2008, 2010 & 2012 Siskel & Ebert award winner! Your Motl runner-up in My Cousin Vinny & Rolling Stone Award!

 
Kwas
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posted May 05, 2013 02:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kwas Click Here to Email Kwas Send a private message to Kwas Click to send Kwas an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Kwas's Have/Want ListView Kwas's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by revenger:
This would have sufficed from you sir. Thanks!



Quite sure it's because most of your questions aren't "RULE QUESTIONS" but more "I haven't cared to read the card. Could you please read it out aloud for me?"
 
revenger
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posted May 05, 2013 03:26 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for revenger Click Here to Email revenger Click to send revenger an Instant MessageVisit revenger's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View revenger's Have/Want ListView revenger's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Kwas:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by revenger:
This would have sufficed from you sir. Thanks!



Quite sure it's because most of your questions aren't "RULE QUESTIONS" but more "I haven't cared to read the card. Could you please read it out aloud for me?"
[/QUOTE]

on the contrary- read em all. Unfort, I over analyze and always try and work it out to my advantage.

__________________
28th in refs on Motl!

#1 Ref's for Arizona!

I offer 3rd party trading services. Email if interested.

Your 2008, 2010 & 2012 Siskel & Ebert award winner! Your Motl runner-up in My Cousin Vinny & Rolling Stone Award!

 

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