Author
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Topic: The Rulings and Questions Thread, Part 54--Post ALL Your Rules Questions Here
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Devonin Member
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posted August 06, 2013 07:13 AM
Well, only if you have no lands of your own that you want to be playing. It's not a bad card, but it's hardly a top tier "Oh crap we lose" card. After all, it dies to Lightning Bolt.
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Magihyren Member
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posted August 06, 2013 12:58 PM
Hey, I just want to clarify the card wording on Ranger's GuileCard Text: Target creature you control gets +1/+1 and gains hexproof until end of turn. (It can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.) My question is does the +1/+1 counter stay on the creature or is it also removed at the end of the turn. Thanks in advance.
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mcelraca Member
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posted August 06, 2013 01:02 PM
quote: Originally posted by Magihyren: Hey, I just want to clarify the card wording on Ranger's GuileCard Text: Target creature you control gets +1/+1 and gains hexproof until end of turn. (It can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.) My question is does the +1/+1 counter stay on the creature or is it also removed at the end of the turn. Thanks in advance.
the +1/+1 is gone at the end of the turn. It doesn't actually place a counter on the creature. Think of it just like giant growth. It only last until end of turn.
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flavor_of_the_weak Member
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posted August 07, 2013 05:01 PM
What would happens if i play Doom Blade on black creature?Doom Blade Instant, 1B Destroy target nonblack creature.
__________________ Term Respect Is Used To Often,Get A Free Token Card In Every Trade!R.I.P Lucky (1997-2003).
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Myy Member
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posted August 07, 2013 05:20 PM
quote: Originally posted by flavor_of_the_weak: What would happens if i play Doom Blade on black creature?Doom Blade Instant, 1B Destroy target nonblack creature.
you can't target it. It's an illegal target for doom blade, you have to chose a valid target, or you can't cast it.
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caquaa Member
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posted August 08, 2013 03:42 AM
quote: Originally posted by flavor_of_the_weak: What would happens if i play Doom Blade on black creature?
717. Handling Illegal Actions 717.1. If a player realizes that he or she can't legally take an action after starting to do so, the entire action is reversed and any payments already made are canceled. No abilities trigger and no effects apply as a result of an undone action. If the action was casting a spell, the spell returns to the zone it came from. The player may also reverse any legal mana abilities activated while making the illegal play, unless mana from them or from any triggered mana abilities they triggered was spent on another mana ability that wasn't reversed. Players may not reverse actions that moved cards to a library, moved cards from a library to any zone other than the stack, or caused a library to be shuffled. 717.2. When reversing illegal spells and abilities, the player who had priority retains it and may take another action or pass. The player may redo the reversed action in a legal way or take any other action allowed by the rules.
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caquaa Member
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posted August 08, 2013 03:43 AM
quote: Originally posted by flavor_of_the_weak: What would happens if i play Doom Blade on black creature?
717. Handling Illegal Actions 717.1. If a player realizes that he or she can't legally take an action after starting to do so, the entire action is reversed and any payments already made are canceled. No abilities trigger and no effects apply as a result of an undone action. If the action was casting a spell, the spell returns to the zone it came from. The player may also reverse any legal mana abilities activated while making the illegal play, unless mana from them or from any triggered mana abilities they triggered was spent on another mana ability that wasn't reversed. Players may not reverse actions that moved cards to a library, moved cards from a library to any zone other than the stack, or caused a library to be shuffled. 717.2. When reversing illegal spells and abilities, the player who had priority retains it and may take another action or pass. The player may redo the reversed action in a legal way or take any other action allowed by the rules.
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ryan2754 Member
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posted August 08, 2013 02:50 PM
Bred for the Hunt and Man-Lands - If the Man-lands are unblocked, do they keep the +1/+1 counter after they lose creature status?__________________ -Schmitty, MOTL's Psychiatrist 76th in Refs [311] on MOTL (1 behind implode) 2nd in Refs [311] in OH-IO (57 behind souladvocate) 1st in Posts in OH-IO (Passed the legendary ValMTG) “If Brad Stevens is the future of coaching in college basketball, the sport is in a good place" - Rick Pitino
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Myy Member
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posted August 08, 2013 04:03 PM
quote: Originally posted by ryan2754: Bred for the Hunt and Man-Lands - If the Man-lands are unblocked, do they keep the +1/+1 counter after they lose creature status?
huh? I'm guessing you think they get a +1/+1 counter? what the enchantment does is draw you a card IF the man-land ( as a creature) deals combat damage while it already has a +1/+1 counter on it. otherwise, you draw nothing. i.e. Raging ravine Gets to draw you a card if it deals damage, mutavault doesn't ( unless again, it has a counter on it already) hope that helps. EDIT: if you were already aware of all that I typed earlier, and you still want to know if you attack with a man land with a +1/+1 counter on it and would it still retain the +1/+1 counter after drawing you the card and after it becomes a land again at the End of the Turn. then the answer is Yes, it still keeps that counter on it.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Myy on August 08, 2013]
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walkerdog Member
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posted August 08, 2013 04:07 PM
quote: Originally posted by ryan2754: Bred for the Hunt and Man-Lands - If the Man-lands are unblocked, do they keep the +1/+1 counter after they lose creature status?
If you manage to get +1/+1 counters onto lands, yes, they stay there.
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ryan2754 Member
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posted August 08, 2013 05:50 PM
Yeah, that's what I meant. Didn't mean Bred for the Hunt, meant something like Rite of Passage.Also, if I have creatures with graft, am I able to put the Graft trigger on the stack, activate a man land, and then give the counter to the man land? __________________ -Schmitty, MOTL's Psychiatrist 76th in Refs [311] on MOTL (1 behind implode) 2nd in Refs [311] in OH-IO (57 behind souladvocate) 1st in Posts in OH-IO (Passed the legendary ValMTG) “If Brad Stevens is the future of coaching in college basketball, the sport is in a good place" - Rick Pitino
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pugowar Member
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posted August 08, 2013 06:43 PM
How does ground seal interact with Varolz? If I have him on the table do my cards still have scavenge because he isnt targeting them?Conversely if my opponent tries to scavenging ooze the creature I am using varolz's ability to scavenge ground seal would block it right?
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Pail42 Member
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posted August 08, 2013 06:48 PM
quote: Originally posted by ryan2754: Also, if I have creatures with graft, am I able to put the Graft trigger on the stack, activate a man land, and then give the counter to the man land?
702.57a Graft represents both a static ability and a triggered ability. “Graft N” means “This permanent enters the battlefield with N +1/+1 counters on it” and “Whenever another creature enters the battlefield, if this permanent has a +1/+1 counter on it, you may move a +1/+1 counter from this permanent onto that creature.” No. Graft only triggers when a creature enters the battlefield and you can only move one counter onto the creature that caused the trigger. No fair playing a creature and then grafting the counter onto something else.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Pail42 on August 08, 2013]
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Pail42 Member
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posted August 08, 2013 06:54 PM
quote: Originally posted by pugowar: How does ground seal interact with Varolz? If I have him on the table do my cards still have scavenge because he isnt targeting them?Conversely if my opponent tries to scavenging ooze the creature I am using varolz's ability to scavenge ground seal would block it right?
Yes, granting scavenge is not targeted so ground seal doesn't stop Varolz. 702.96. Scavenge 702.96a Scavenge is an activated ability that functions only while the card with scavenge is in a graveyard. "Scavenge [cost]" means "[Cost], Exile this card from your graveyard: Put a number of +1/+1 counter equal to the power of the card you exiled on target creature. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery." Since you exile the card as part of the cost to scavenge your opponent can't use ooze to stop the ability once you have activated it. Ground seal stops scavenging ooze's ability because it is a targeted ability.
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ryan2754 Member
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posted August 09, 2013 01:57 PM
One more +1/+1 counter question. I activate Birthing Pod on say, Sporeback Troll (2 +1/+1 counters). Can I, with the Pod sac on the stack, remove ALL the +1/+1 counters from Sporeback troll using Zameck Guildmage?
Or because Sacrificing creature is required as activation cost can I not remove counters? __________________ -Schmitty, MOTL's Psychiatrist 76th in Refs [311] on MOTL (1 behind implode) 2nd in Refs [311] in OH-IO (57 behind souladvocate) 1st in Posts in OH-IO (Passed the legendary ValMTG) “If Brad Stevens is the future of coaching in college basketball, the sport is in a good place" - Rick Pitino
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walkerdog Member
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posted August 09, 2013 02:15 PM
Your 2nd thought is correct - saccing the dude is part of the cost, so he will be dead with the pod activation on the stack. You could remove 1 counter to draw of course, then sac your 1/1, but you can't remove the 2nd (or it will die, since removing the counter is also part of the cost).
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mattmdotcom New Member
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posted August 10, 2013 11:27 AM
Say I have an enchantment in play that gives all creatures -1/-1. Then I cast a creature that is 2/1. Does it die instantly, or could I equip it with something that gives it +__/+1 to let it survive, or maybe even use sacrifice it to another creature that has that option as an activated ability?
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thror Member
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posted August 10, 2013 12:25 PM
quote: Originally posted by mattmdotcom: Say I have an enchantment in play that gives all creatures -1/-1. Then I cast a creature that is 2/1. Does it die instantly, or could I equip it with something that gives it +__/+1 to let it survive, or maybe even use sacrifice it to another creature that has that option as an activated ability?
you cast a 2/1, and it resolves. it is now on the battlefield, and the game checks the game state (state based effects/actions). the game sees your creature as a 1/0. because it has zero or less toughness, it is immediately put into your graveyard. you cant do anything to save it and you cant do anything with it before this happens. __________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers <KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep <KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep
[Edited 1 times, lastly by thror on August 10, 2013]
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chaos021 Member
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posted August 10, 2013 06:24 PM
quote: Originally posted by thror: you cast a 2/1, and it resolves. it is now on the battlefield, and the game checks the game state (state based effects/actions). the game sees your creature as a 1/0. because it has zero or less toughness, it is immediately put into your graveyard. you cant do anything to save it and you cant do anything with it before this happens.
However, you can cast the creature, equip it and then cast the enchantment.
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jasonost Member
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posted August 11, 2013 12:40 AM
I have a question about using simple combos to reach an arbitrary (but not guaranteed) board state.Say that I control an Ashnod's Altar and a Tariel, Reckoner of Souls equipped with a Thornbite Staff. My opponent's graveyard contains several creatures, one of which is a Blood Artist. Assume nothing else will interact with the board. Can I say, "Reanimate creatures and sac them until I kill you with a lethal amount of Blood Artist triggers" and win the game immediately, or will I have to play out the combo because I don't actually know how many combo cycles I will need to complete? Are any rules infractions incurred by playing this way? Thanks in advance.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by jasonost on August 11, 2013]
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thror Member
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posted August 11, 2013 12:55 AM
quote: Originally posted by jasonost: I have a question about using simple combos to reach an arbitrary (but not guaranteed) board state.Say that I control an Ashnod's Altar and a Tariel, Reckoner of Souls equipped with a Thornbite Staff. My opponent's graveyard contains several creatures, one of which is a Blood Artist. Assume nothing else will interact with the board. Can I say, "Reanimate creatures and sac them until I kill you with a lethal amount of Blood Artist triggers" and win the game immediately, or will I have to play out the combo because I don't actually know how many combo cycles I will need to complete? Are any rules infractions incurred by playing this way? Thanks in advance.
unfortunately, i dont think your combo even works. Tap tariel, get a random creature. Sac the creature to altar for (2), tariel untaps. (2), T tariel: deal 1 damage. you need another untap trigger. Even IF you had the extra untap trigger, you cannot "repeat until lethal" because it is not a demonstrable loop. Kiki Jiki + pestermite can demonstrably create as many creatures as you want, so you can shortcut it to 'i make 10k pestermites'. but because Tariel gets creatures At Random, you cannot shortcut it.
__________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers <KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep <KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep
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Devonin Member
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posted August 11, 2013 07:03 AM
The combo doesn't need a second untap trigger, because what it does isn't power Thornbite pinging. What it does is "When he finally hits a Blood Artist, sacrificing it to the altar causes the opponent to lose 1 life"The problem with this is that if you hit a non-blood artist, when you sacrifice it, the game is returned to the previous board state. That means after a few iterations, you are likely to get nailed by a judge call for slow play or stalling which could cost you the game. If you had another combo piece that itself caused a change to the board state (Say, your own blood artist, or anything that gains a +1/+1 counter or has some other effect when a creature dies) you could argue that each iteration is still modifying the board state to the point where you will keep fishing for artist triggers, but if you don't find one in 10 or 15 tries, you've still got a 15/15 creature to attack with. I mean...the other thing is that you're also generating infinite mana through this combo. Since you tap Tariel, get a creature, sac the creature for (2) which untaps Tariel for free, allowing you to grab and sac another creature, you -do- have a predictable loop that is generating (2) mana per iteration. What you can then say to your opponent after demonstrating the loop and establishing that they aren't going to disrupt it is "I'm going to loop this 10 million times to generate 20 million mana." If you point out the statistical liklihood that with say 4 or 5 possible creatures to choose from and 10 million iterations, that they are pretty much going to have died from Blood Artist being grabbed before you even get anywhere near to that much mana, they'll probably concede on the spot. Mind you, it might pay to include something in the deck to -use- infinite mana in case they disagree about the fact that they'd die from Blood Artist triggers, and -also- won't let you manually start iterating. But hey. It's better than the previous interpretation of "Combo doesn't work as described"
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Devonin on August 11, 2013]
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Dancam1 Member
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posted August 16, 2013 07:40 AM
I have a rules question that I posted wrong, so, I will post it here.I have 4 lands in play, one being a Flagstones of Trokair. I cast Scapeshift. I sacrifice the 4 lands. I get 3 more Flagstones of Trokair and a green land. Once all this resolves, how many lands will I have? I think I should have 8. Here is why: I sacrifice 4 lands to Scapeshift. I search my library for 4 lands and put them in play tapped. Since one of those lands was a Flagstones, that triggers and I would also get a plains card. So, after Flagstones and Scapeshift resolve, I should have 5 mana. Is that correct? The other 3 flagstones would be sacrificed and I'd have to get 3 more plains cards. So, I'd have 5 mana in play and 4 flagstones and a scapeshift in my graveyard once it is all said and done, right? My second question is more of a posting question. I have tried to load my have list and it is too big. How much room do I have? Anyone know? I could shape it if I know how much space I have. Thanks in advance Dan
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nderdog Moderator
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posted August 16, 2013 08:31 AM
quote: Originally posted by Dancam1: I have a rules question that I posted wrong, so, I will post it here.I have 4 lands in play, one being a Flagstones of Trokair. I cast Scapeshift. I sacrifice the 4 lands. I get 3 more Flagstones of Trokair and a green land. Once all this resolves, how many lands will I have? I think I should have 8. Here is why: I sacrifice 4 lands to Scapeshift. I search my library for 4 lands and put them in play tapped. Since one of those lands was a Flagstones, that triggers and I would also get a plains card. So, after Flagstones and Scapeshift resolve, I should have 5 mana. Is that correct? The other 3 flagstones would be sacrificed and I'd have to get 3 more plains cards. So, I'd have 5 mana in play and 4 flagstones and a scapeshift in my graveyard once it is all said and done, right? My second question is more of a posting question. I have tried to load my have list and it is too big. How much room do I have? Anyone know? I could shape it if I know how much space I have. Thanks in advance Dan
You would have 5 lands in play. Scapeshift would let you sacrifice 4 lands to put 4 lands into play, with a Plains off of the Flagstones pending. Putting 3 Flagstones into play off of the Scapeshift will mean losing 2 to the new Legends rule (instead of 3 per the pre-M14 Legends rule) and netting 2 more Plains. Grabbing 3 Flagstones is a terrible use of Scapeshift unless you're trying to fill your graveyard with extra lands for some reason. The second question doesn't belong here as it's not a MTG Rules question, but while I don't know the actual number, the best thing is to just keep trimming your list down until it fits. It's some specific number of characters, but I've never been remotely bored enough to try and determine it. Suffice to say you can list hundreds of haves and hundreds of wants with no problem, from personal experience.
__________________ There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please! Report rules violations. Remember the Auctions Board!
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Dancam1 Member
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posted August 16, 2013 08:32 AM
I actually have a second question. I just found out that damage doesn't go on the stack. i haven't played magic in years and was playing with some new friends. So, if damage doesn't go on the stack, then how can you healing salve a creature?Lets run through a few scenarios: 1. I have a Llanowar Elf in play. My opponent has a White Knight. He attacks. I block. I play Giant growth on the elf, making it a 4/4. He would play healing salve when? 2. I heard that you can't do "parting tricks" anymore either. So, you can't have Cavern Harpy (2/1 flyer that for 1 life u can return to your hand) block, deal damage, put it on the stack, and then return it to your hand, is that correct? So, if I had a Llanowar elf and he blocked with his Harpy, he can't kill my elf and save his Harpy? This is really bizarre b/c this goes against almost 20 years of magic. Is there a specific rules section that deals with damage? thanks Dan
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