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Author	Topic: The Post for Theros
Vegas10 Member	posted September 05, 2013 05:38 AM quote: Originally posted by KGtheLegend: I just don't see it man, it is literally a Watchwolf/Call of the Conclave(both of which are uncommons) before it's monstrous. If you drop this on curve they have at least 2 turns to deal with it before you can make it hexproof and indestructible, but there's an awful lot of removal seeing play that can kill this guy. Response to monstrous trigger, instant speed removal, thanks for wasting a turn. I can see that happening more often then not. Will it see play? Of course it will, it is a decent creature after all, but is it "the best rare in the set"? IMO, the answer is no. +1, good solid card but nothing special, see's play yes, best rare of the set, I hope not then the set is pretty bad.
hilikuS Member	posted September 05, 2013 05:54 AM quote: Originally posted by Vegas10: +1, good solid card but nothing special, see's play yes, best rare of the set, I hope not then the set is pretty bad. Thoughtseize is probably the best rare of the set.
walkerdog Member	posted September 05, 2013 05:55 AM quote: Originally posted by hilikuS: Thoughtseize is probably the best rare of the set. If you're looking past standard, sure. Most people aren't, at least not for "best whatever," unless it's just busted in another format. __________________ Originally posted by rats60: It's easy to run your month, but when it's time to back it up, no one's there.
jbark Member	posted September 05, 2013 06:18 AM The red god seems to be the best card so far. It will probably see the most play as well with the burning tree dude in GTC. Just don't know how devotion will work with so much removal available.
fluffycow Member	posted September 05, 2013 07:46 AM quote: Originally posted by skizzikmonger: Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver 1UB Planeswalker — Ashiok +2: Exile the top three cards of target opponent's library. -X: Put a creature card with converted mana cost X exiled with Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver onto the battlefield under your control. That creature is a Nightmare in addition to its other types. -10: Exile all cards from all opponents' hands and graveyards. 3 Why does it have to say "exiled with ~"!!! This set is making me sad (except for thoughtseize) PS. this set has more bulk than dragon's maze and gatecrash
Pail42 Member	posted September 05, 2013 10:47 AM quote: Originally posted by fluffycow: PS. this set has more bulk than dragon's maze and gatecrash More than dragon's maze? It definitely doesn't seem that bad. Are you basing bulk on limited, standard, modern, or some combination of formats?
thror Member	posted September 05, 2013 10:51 AM new watchwolf. 3/3 for GW. 3GW, Monstrosity 1. If monstrous, has hexproof and indestructible. beatdown! __________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there." <@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers <KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep <KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep
Bagbokk Member	posted September 05, 2013 10:58 AM Erebos makes me happy. BG or Junk after rotation (if format can support 3 colors). Just sad won't have Mutilate anymore. [Edited 1 times, lastly by Bagbokk on September 05, 2013]
Zeckk Member	posted September 05, 2013 11:41 AM quote: Originally posted by KGtheLegend: I just don't see it man, it is literally a Watchwolf/Call of the Conclave(both of which are uncommons) before it's monstrous. If you drop this on curve they have at least 2 turns to deal with it before you can make it hexproof and indestructible, but there's an awful lot of removal seeing play that can kill this guy. Response to monstrous trigger, instant speed removal, thanks for wasting a turn. I can see that happening more often then not. Will it see play? Of course it will, it is a decent creature after all, but is it "the best rare in the set"? IMO, the answer is no. It would have seen play purely as a 3/3 for 2. The activated ability just gives it added flexibility for a stalled board or topdeck mode. This little sucker, paired with unflinching courage, is a 12-point life swing every turn that requires an edict effect or a non-destruction based sweeper. I see this guy helping out voice of resurgence and giving GW the edge against most board states.
fluffycow Member	posted September 05, 2013 11:43 AM quote: Originally posted by Pail42: More than dragon's maze? It definitely doesn't seem that bad. Are you basing bulk on limited, standard, modern, or some combination of formats? Basing this on the amount of bulk that's been spoiled. I hope they have some kind of a way to speed the monstrosity up. Like a land that taps to add monstrosity mana or something
daner Member	posted September 05, 2013 11:46 AM quote: Originally posted by Zeckk: It would have seen play purely as a 3/3 for 2. The activated ability just gives it added flexibility for a stalled board or topdeck mode. This little sucker, paired with unflinching courage, is a 12-point life swing every turn that requires an edict effect or a non-destruction based sweeper. I see this guy helping out voice of resurgence and giving GW the edge against most board states. There are Far/Away more answers to this problem than you think.
KGtheLegend Member	posted September 05, 2013 12:15 PM quote: Originally posted by daner: There are Far/Away more answers to this problem than you think. I see what you did there! quote: Originally posted by Zeckk: It would have seen play purely as a 3/3 for 2. The activated ability just gives it added flexibility for a stalled board or topdeck mode. This little sucker, paired with unflinching courage, is a 12-point life swing every turn that requires an edict effect or a non-destruction based sweeper. Call of the Conclave sees very little play, even though it's a 3/3 for 2. I do understand what you're saying though, and I agree he is a solid creature, but you said "best rare in the set" and I just don't think that is true. Even if monstrous he's only a 4/4, have you seen the size of the dudes in this set? Smiter trades even up with monstrous Fleecemane, but for 4 less mana invested. [Edited 1 times, lastly by KGtheLegend on September 05, 2013]
daner Member	posted September 05, 2013 01:35 PM QUOTE]Originally posted by KGtheLegend: Call of the Conclave sees very little play, even though it's a 3/3 for 2. I do understand what you're saying though, and I agree he is a solid creature, but you said "best rare in the set" and I just don't think that is true. Even if monstrous he's only a 4/4, have you seen the size of the dudes in this set? Smiter trades even up with monstrous Fleecemane, but for 4 less mana invested.[/QUOTE] Couldn't agree more. The two drop slot has better options. G/W Tokens you probably want to cast Voice or Call...or if you turn 1 Elf Smiter. If you are Naya you want Voice, or Smiter/Domri if you played turn 1 Elf. It's a solid card...no doubt, but 7 mana for a 4/4 isn't that attractive.... quote: Originally posted by Zeckk: It would have seen play purely as a 3/3 for 2. The activated ability just gives it added flexibility for a stalled board or topdeck mode. I see this guy helping out voice of resurgence and giving GW the edge against most board states. Now back to this.....if you are in "top deck" mode vs. Control and you have 7+ lands in play do you really think this creature is going to do anything off the top? Don't get me wrong, this is as SOLID a card as you'll find...but solid doesn't always find it's way into decks. Maybe it's a 2x of in GW and Naya builds? Just seems clunky, and clunky isn't going to help you beat Control.
junichi Moderator	posted September 05, 2013 02:45 PM I can't say Fleecemane Lion is the best rare in the set, but it's definitely a very strong card, and I would expect it to see quite a bit of play. It's pretty much a Watchwolf with upside. You might not want to use its Monstrosity ability as soon as you hit 5 mana, but the option is there, and there is definitely value to that option. A 4/4 hexproof indestructible creature is nothing to sneeze at, and even though there are some removals that can deal with it, there are also a lot more that can't. If opponents have to construct their deck in a way to make sure they have answer to this guy, it has already done its impact. __________________ (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ "The enemy has been destroyed, sir. So have the forest, the city, your palace, your dog . . ." —Keldon soldier
jbark Member	posted September 05, 2013 04:08 PM new incinerate/ searing spear. thats 2 nice burn spells in the set.
Zeckk Member	posted September 05, 2013 04:11 PM quote: Originally posted by daner: There are Far/Away more answers to this problem than you think. No one said you couldn't answer the card. I'm saying that the lion is going to define how players build their decks. Between smiter, lion, and voice, you have 3 highly efficient cards that present different problems for any given deck. Lion is powerful because his "upside" is great against creatures AND removal. He's great on turn 2, and he's great as a topdeck. Creatures of that nature tend to see a ton of play, i.e. voice of resurgence. I'm confident that lion sees more top8 play in the first month after release than the other rares, barring the lands.
WinkyBlitzen Member	posted September 05, 2013 04:24 PM quote: Originally posted by Zeckk: No one said you couldn't answer the card. I'm saying that the lion is going to define how players build their decks. Between smiter, lion, and voice, you have 3 highly efficient cards that present different problems for any given deck. Lion is powerful because his "upside" is great against creatures AND removal. He's great on turn 2, and he's great as a topdeck. Creatures of that nature tend to see a ton of play, i.e. voice of resurgence. I'm confident that lion sees more top8 play in the first month after release than the other rares, barring the lands. The problem besides the susceptibility to Far/Away, which I anticipate we'll be seeing a lot of in the upcoming format whether Grixis or Esper become the control deck of choice is that he's great as a top deck if you have 7 mana to cast it, because otherwise everything in the format deals with it immediately if you have to even wait one turn to make it monstrous, whereas Voice beats everything except Detention Sphere with just the 2 mana investment. It also doesn't even beat Verdict or Mortars most of the time compared with Voice given that both come down before you can even make it monstrous. Additionally, in terms of Esper, the finisher of choice in those decks was Blood Baron, which obviously matches up very well against Lion even when monstrous. And if you draw it late, and have the 7 mana to make it monstrous immediately, you're still an aggressive strategy with 7 lands, and are likely already buried under card advantage from Revelation or Opportunity. It's a fine card, and will likely see play, but I just think a Watchwolf with upside isn't what it used to be, since Watchwolf isn't playable, and hasn't been for years.
junichi Moderator	posted September 05, 2013 04:36 PM quote: Originally posted by WinkyBlitzen: The problem besides the susceptibility to Far/Away, which I anticipate we'll be seeing a lot of in the upcoming format whether Grixis or Esper become the control deck of choice is that he's great as a top deck if you have 7 mana to cast it, because otherwise everything in the format deals with it immediately if you have to even wait one turn to make it monstrous, whereas Voice beats everything except Detention Sphere with just the 2 mana investment. It also doesn't even beat Verdict or Mortars most of the time compared with Voice given that both come down before you can even make it monstrous. Additionally, in terms of Esper, the finisher of choice in those decks was Blood Baron, which obviously matches up very well against Lion even when monstrous. And if you draw it late, and have the 7 mana to make it monstrous immediately, you're still an aggressive strategy with 7 lands, and are likely already buried under card advantage from Revelation or Opportunity. It's a fine card, and will likely see play, but I just think a Watchwolf with upside isn't what it used to be, since Watchwolf isn't playable, and hasn't been for years. If a 2cc creature requires attention right away, that's a pretty strong creature. __________________ (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ "The enemy has been destroyed, sir. So have the forest, the city, your palace, your dog . . ." —Keldon soldier
WinkyBlitzen Member	posted September 05, 2013 04:53 PM quote: Originally posted by junichi: If a 2cc creature requires attention right away, that's a pretty strong creature. I wouldn't call Verdicting on T4 "attention," since I was planning on doing that anyway. It does require immediate attention if you can make it monstrous on the same turn, but then it's a 7 mana creature, not a 2 mana creature. I'm not saying that it isn't strong, just that it's already worse than Voice, and it doesn't necessarily have a deck. It's an aggressive card, and Gruul seems a heck of a lot better positioned to be the best aggressive strategy with BTE, Purphoros, Rampager, Domri, and Xelagos.
junichi Moderator	posted September 05, 2013 04:57 PM quote: Originally posted by WinkyBlitzen: I wouldn't call Verdicting on T4 "attention," since I was planning on doing that anyway. It does require immediate attention if you can make it monstrous on the same turn, but then it's a 7 mana creature, not a 2 mana creature. I'm not saying that it isn't strong, just that it's already worse than Voice, and it doesn't necessarily have a deck. It's an aggressive card, and Gruul seems a heck of a lot better positioned to be the best aggressive strategy with BTE, Purphoros, Rampager, Domri, and Xelagos. Voice doesn't have a deck? If I remember correctly, there are definitely some strong finish from Voice in the past few weeks. Either way, they aren't even mutually exclusive, and they are both strong 2cc creatures. __________________ (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ "The enemy has been destroyed, sir. So have the forest, the city, your palace, your dog . . ." —Keldon soldier [Edited 2 times, lastly by junichi on September 05, 2013]
skizzikmonger Member	posted September 05, 2013 05:00 PM This could be fun: Prophet of Kruphix 3GU Creature — Human Wizard Untap all creatures and lands you control during each other player's untap step. You may cast creature cards as though they had flash. 2/3
WinkyBlitzen Member	posted September 05, 2013 05:09 PM quote: Originally posted by skizzikmonger: This could be fun: Prophet of Kruphix 3GU Creature — Human Wizard Untap all creatures and lands you control during each other player's untap step. You may cast creature cards as though they had flash. 2/3 It's interesting, but it always feels like outside of Teferi, cards allowing you to play things at instant speed are always a bit overvalued, and in Teferi's case it was more making their things sorceries. Obviously it has more of an impact than something like Leyline of Anticipation which I remember getting a bit of a hype train.
WinkyBlitzen Member	posted September 05, 2013 05:14 PM quote: Originally posted by junichi: Voice doesn't have a deck? If I remember correctly, there are definitely some strong finish from Voice in the past few weeks. Either way, they aren't even mutually exclusive, and they are both strong 2cc creatures. I tend to have an admittedly harsh standard of "a deck." If it's not the best deck at the strategy it's pursuing, I don't see it as being a deck, and that creature is conducive to aggressive strategies, and Gruul just does that better on both ends (two powerful planeswalkers for more midrange-aggro and Burning Tree Emissary and Rampager for faster aggro).
Zeckk Member	posted September 05, 2013 06:25 PM quote: Originally posted by WinkyBlitzen: [QUOTE]Originally posted by junichi: Voice doesn't have a deck? If I remember correctly, there are definitely some strong finish from Voice in the past few weeks. Either way, they aren't even mutually exclusive, and they are both strong 2cc creatures. I tend to have an admittedly harsh standard of "a deck." If it's not the best deck at the strategy it's pursuing, I don't see it as being a deck, and that creature is conducive to aggressive strategies, and Gruul just does that better on both ends (two powerful planeswalkers for more midrange-aggro and Burning Tree Emissary and Rampager for faster aggro).[/QUOTE] And that's the beauty of meta-gaming: GW has a favorable matchup against gruul aggro/midrange strategies, largely because their 2 and 3 drops outclass gruul's early dudes. Reckoner is quite solid, but I have a feeling that trying reckoner in GW or Gruul is going to be rather hard to accomplish, unless it becomes optimal for decks to be running guildgates.
WinkyBlitzen Member	posted September 05, 2013 09:17 PM Well, the Theros picture becomes clearer. Land Cycle spoiled! Temple of Abandon When it comes into play, Scry 1. Comes into play tapped. Add R or G. etc. Edit: Also, different order. Not all allied, nor all enemy. RG, UB, BW, RW, UG in Theros. [Edited 1 times, lastly by WinkyBlitzen on September 05, 2013]

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