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Originally posted by Liq:

As of yet, I haven't seen anyone abuse the replacement system. But I do agree, there's been too many replacements as of late. Unless MM (PD) disagrees, I think starting next game (WW12) there should be a 1 game penalty for asking for a replacement outside of necessary reasons.

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Not to rub salt in AGM's wound, 'cause I never really intended to **** him off so bad in the first place (thought he had a thicker skin?), but as far as I can tell the only reason he had for requesting a replacement this time around was petulance. It's definitely an abuse of the system.

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Originally posted by Thanos:
With all the rudeness, animosity towards others, and "cliques" going on in these two games, I think they should just be shut down altogether.

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Granted, I was completely guilty of not being fair and level in the ZC for the one mafia game (and for that I apologize), and I find the amount of maturity and ToS violations in the current games to be very disturbing, but I don't think that shutting them down for good is the best answer.

The problem here is there are a number of large egos in the game which are very easily bruised. Honestly I think the current game is pretty low-key as far as rude behavior goes--but high-key on hypersensitivity.

We shouldn't be treating each other with disdain, but we shouldn't be walking as if we are treading on eggshells either. We need to not be so precious, and get over ourselves. I say this fully cognizant of my own shortcomings in this area.

I see a little too much of both in recent history--people going too far in their criticisms, and people taking criticisms far too seriously.

Criticism is a necessary part of this game. Standard WW/mafia gear should be boxing gloves. Not brass knuckles, but not kid gloves either.

In regards to the most recent mafia game, I was really on edge for most of the game.

I completely believed that the cits had it in the bag as long as they continued to follow their non-Zak pile voting. Would have been close with a 1-v-3 end game but it gave more victory options. Especially with the possibility of a Vigilante endgame save.

Edit : Current Standings

2.0

Jaz
Xplr

1.5

Mystic

1.0

Bernie
Dakrum
OGB (top cit player thus far)
Zakman

0.5

PD
Josh

~MM

__________________
I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion and 2007 Captain N award winner.

Basically, I think cits should stop being so defensive early in the game if one of the helpers are still alive. If you go down, at the very least you save one of them. I'm not saying roll over and die if you're a cit and accused, but instead of being defensive, be offensive. Don't go into details on why you aren't wolf, because quite frankly, all reasoning is somewhat pointless. Instead, point out why others are wolves. Obviously this ceases to apply later in the game when a) there's more info and b) misses are much more crucial.

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Originally posted by MagicMystic:
I feel that cits are playing this game completely wrong. In this past game we had several players who were so worried about looking guilty that they'd rather survive than help find wolves. While the cits were in trouble from the get-go when the seer and angel were killed, it didn't help that there were people basically not playing. The objective of the game isn't to live, it's to win, even if you go out first doing so. The only people who should care about living are the people with roles. If you're a cit, you're a pawn, you should be relatively fine with dying.

Basically, I think cits should stop being so defensive early in the game if one of the helpers are still alive. If you go down, at the very least you save one of them. I'm not saying roll over and die if you're a cit and accused, but instead of being defensive, be offensive. Don't go into details on why you aren't wolf, because quite frankly, all reasoning is somewhat pointless. Instead, point out why others are wolves. Obviously this ceases to apply later in the game when a) there's more info and b) misses are much more crucial.

Oh, also, if someone requests out early in the game, and not under duress, they should be given that out. If XPR was a wolf, it would've completely screwed the cits.

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Originally posted by Liq:
No offense MM, but I think PD should take over Werewolf as he has more time.

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~MM

__________________
I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion and 2007 Captain N award winner.

quote:

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Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
Well it's actually easier for me to run instead of play

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I know what you mean but you always seem to disappear at crucial times.

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Originally posted by MagicMystic:
In this past game we had several players who were so worried about looking guilty that they'd rather survive than help find wolves.

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From my perspective any cit who appears to be worried about what other people think of him is definitely a good candidate for lynching. Cits die. They HAVE to die. A perfect 3-round cit win cannot happen every single game. If you're gonna die you're gonna die--there's always the zombie club if you want to keep chatting up the game with other people who are interested.

The cit MVP is not the player who survives to the end--it's the player who did the most to help the cits work together and find wolves--that could be a guy who dies in R2, or who baits the wolves into killing him or something. Sometimes your own demise is the best thing you can do for your team.

I'm sure Liq would agree--as I recall Liq's Mafia 101 book states that cits should not fear death, they should embrace it.

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Originally posted by MagicMystic:
Oh, also, if someone requests out early in the game, and not under duress, they should be given that out. If XPR was a wolf, it would've completely screwed the cits.

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WW is a 3 to 4 week commitment that's going to require approximately 30 minutes a day. And the longer you go between reads/posts, the more catching up you have to do and the more time it takes. Yes, real life issues arise--but not all of them are so unforeseen that someone can't say "hmmm, I'm probably not going to be able to do this for 4 weeks" up front and not sign up in the first place.

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
I'm sure Liq would agree--as I recall Liq's Mafia 101 book states that cits should not fear death, they should embrace it.

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I totally agree, and I feel like I have to bring it up every game we play that people shouldn't defend themselves in the early rounds that strongly because if you are a cit who manages to survive but still have tons of suspicion, you are just making the endgame harder.

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Originally posted by MasterWolf:
I totally agree, and I feel like I have to bring it up every game we play that people shouldn't defend themselves in the early rounds that strongly because if you are a cit who manages to survive but still have tons of suspicion, you are just making the endgame harder.

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Originally posted by MagicMystic:
One thing that would be interesting would be to cut down the time given for rounds. If we only had, say, 48 hours to discuss/vote, it might increase discussion, since there always seems to be a day where barely anyone posts. Also, if a game only took 2 weeks to completion, people might be more willing to be lynched since there would be another game starting relatively quickly.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MagicMystic:
One thing that would be interesting would be to cut down the time given for rounds. If we only had, say, 48 hours to discuss/vote, it might increase discussion, since there always seems to be a day where barely anyone posts. Also, if a game only took 2 weeks to completion, people might be more willing to be lynched since there would be another game starting relatively quickly.

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2 rounds a week is about the best you can hope for. You simply can't have rounds end over the weekends, since so many people are away and doing other things. It never works. In my experience, the biggest x-factor to how quickly the game can move is the Mafia/WWs and how long they take to make their kills, and the Cop/Angel while they're still around. When I was running the games, I always appreciated when the roleplayers were organized and got names in quickly, and it was even better when the voting was pretty one-sided and the bad guys had names in before the lynch was posted so that I could post them all in one fell swoop and keep things moving right along.

__________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!

All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

Edit : It really depends on the movement of players. If there's a bunch of active players engaging each other then a bit of extra time is given. But if the conversations look dead, time is taken away.

I would like to know what 'roles' you would like.

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Originally posted by Liq:
I'm considering adding flavor similar to how PD did for the previous WW game.

I would like to know what 'roles' you would like.

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