quote:

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Originally posted by Gawain:
Or what...?

This is the kind of language that leads to problems. Is diplomacy just completely dead on these forums? Is any perceived slight, whether intended or otherwise, to be met with a withering counter-burn no matter what? Is the policy of response on MOTL just to escalate the situation?

I didn't see anything any of Ray's posts to warrant a "shut your mouth or else" response from you Tran, and if we as a group hope to move forward productively in terms of retooling this game and maybe even playing it again like mature adults, then it's exactly this kind of crap that needs to go.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tranderas:
You don't know the real-life situation behind the remarks, Gawain. I respectfully encourage you to stay out of it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gawain:
If it's a real life issue, keep it there. It has nothing to do with this thread and only serves to bog things down. I encourage YOU to keep things you want people to stay out of off of public boards and forums; posting that comment here instead of just talking to him IRL automatically invites commentary from all of those who can view your post.

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It only bogs down the thread if nosy people choose to dwell on it instead of biting into the meat of the problem presented in the post...which you've yet to do.

1. Anyone can claim any role (except Cop). Highly suggesting is allowed.

2. Doctor can save anyone with no restrictions.

3. Vigilante will no longer be used.

What will not change:

1. Only the Cop can claim his role. The reason for this is that when I started playing this game, the citizens were on a 10 game losing streak. Then this rule change occured and the cits won their first game ever (on MOTL). The win ratio for cits became 1 in 3 until after WW5, a few years later.

2. Personal attacks are not allowed. Werewolf/Mafia was shut down because of this. The games were restarted under the understanding that this would not continue.

quote:

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Originally posted by thror:
The problems I see stem from this:
1) Lack of interest within a game.
2) The doctor is irrelevant. He doesn't save.
3) Cits end up relying on the cop too heavily, because he is their ONLY source of information on living players.

I believe we should increase the power of ONLY the cits. If they become too dominant, we can always remove some function, increase the mafia powers, or introduce a 'wildcard' role.

Solutions to #1 - Shorten the round times. 3 Days for Day, 24 hours for NK. If you don't vote/submit in that time, your action is wasted. Also, increasing the # of roles could make more people interested in playing.
Solutions to #2 - Add a 2nd doctor? This lets the cits save a little more often, puts us to 6 roles, and lets a doctor survive late into the game much more often.
Solutions to #3 - I still believe that the cop, if killed without revealing any names, should either release the role of 1 player at random, OR name ALL the cits they scried (to be decided before game starts). This removes some of the pressure to reveal from the cop, possibly keeping him around longer in the process.

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Solution to #1 : The current system for Day is 4, 4, 3, 3, 2. Mafia has always been given a day for NK. Usually receive within 12 hours though.

Solution to #2 : The last time I remember a Doctor save, it was by Woolly in WW5. Prior to that we had about 1 save in each game. A 2nd doctor does sound viable.

Solution to #3 : I can see either working. Though would negate the need for a 2nd doctor.

quote:

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Originally posted by ryan2754:
There are some BALANCED theme games I have stowed away where EVERYONE, and I mean, EVERYONE, has a unique role, whether neutral, pro-town, or pro-mafia. I have different ones for different numbers of people. I would be intrigued to put them into place on this site, as I think everyone having a lot of roles would be a way to keep people interesting. It is a lot of work for the mod, but I would like to do it, and could maybe host a game in CONJUNCTION with Josh/Nder/PD to make it less daunting. Big theme games are fun.

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Mind sharing these with me. I'd be more than willing to mod/help mod it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tranderas:
For reference, here is the list of roles used in the IRC Mafia game that I played:

Mafia roles

I like how the Killer, Detective and homeless bum (our game's cop) function. Those are what i want to try to export into our game.

Perhaps we could modify the detective so that he can't kill, but he does get the bum and they can talk. Ragnarok thinks that's too much, but I think that, and a Killer, are excellent roles as a starting point for changing the game.

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If we were to allow the detective, his only ability would be ambush. As per the killer, we'd have to up the player count to at least 21 and considering the time it takes to fill up a game currently, I don't see it as viable at the moment.

quote:

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Originally posted by dakrum:
How about having two mafia families? If necessary, we rotate which mafia family can nightkill for the night and give one of the second mafia family members (the group that gets nightkill two) some sort of extra ability to compensate? Of course, the cits will receive plenty of extra firepower.

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2 Mafia Families present the same problem as the killer. We would need to up the player count and player participation has been low as of late.

quote:

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Zombie Club E-mail from PlasteredDragon:
1. A lynch should occur the MOMENT A MAJORITY VOTE is reached.
2. All votes MUST be public.
3. People who go 48 hours without posting and not providing notice should be immediately replaced.
4. There should be no rules about what you can and cannot talk about.

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Thoughts?

__________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!

All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

quote:

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
1. A lynch should occur the MOMENT A MAJORITY VOTE is reached.
2. All votes MUST be public.
3. People who go 48 hours without posting and not providing notice should be immediately replaced.
4. There should be no rules about what you can and cannot talk about.

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i like 2, 3, & 4.
i'm not sure about 1 though. yes it could cut down on the mafia herding but it also lets the suddenly swing the vote and end the round.

edit:

quote:

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Originally posted by Liq:
2. Doctor can save anyone with no restrictions

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quote:

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Originally posted by Liq:
Changes to Mafia as it stands:

1. Anyone can claim any role (except Cop). Highly suggesting is allowed.

2. Doctor can save anyone with no restrictions.

3. Vigilante will no longer be used.

What will not change:

1. Only the Cop can claim his role. The reason for this is that when I started playing this game, the citizens were on a 10 game losing streak. Then this rule change occured and the cits won their first game ever (on MOTL). The win ratio for cits became 1 in 3 until after WW5, a few years later.

2. Personal attacks are not allowed. Werewolf/Mafia was shut down because of this. The games were restarted under the understanding that this would not continue.

Solution to #1 : The current system for Day is 4, 4, 3, 3, 2. Mafia has always been given a day for NK. Usually receive within 12 hours though.

Solution to #2 : The last time I remember a Doctor save, it was by Woolly in WW5. Prior to that we had about 1 save in each game. A 2nd doctor does sound viable.

Solution to #3 : I can see either working. Though would negate the need for a 2nd doctor.

Mind sharing these with me. I'd be more than willing to mod/help mod it.

If we were to allow the detective, his only ability would be ambush. As per the killer, we'd have to up the player count to at least 21 and considering the time it takes to fill up a game currently, I don't see it as viable at the moment.

2 Mafia Families present the same problem as the killer. We would need to up the player count and player participation has been low as of late.

Thoughts?

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People go Vote: X or Unvote: Y in the actual thread and votes are tallied by the moderator. It gets rid of some ambiguity and possible votes missed by the weird PM system sometimes. However, days end up running longer, because sometimes, it may take a week or so before people can reach a majority.
Also, it's general consensus that if the voting is one vote away from a majority (L-1, as it's called), and someone quickly drops the hammer so to speak (like mafia herding), that that person is suspicious.

Liq, a lot of the different scenarios/role combinations have to do with how many people sign up to play. If we run sign ups for a week or so, I can make a list of roles/balanced game based on how many people end up playing.

If there are around 15 people to play, I have a few that would work. If MORE people wanted to play, my sample set it smaller, and would more than likely need help modding the game, and help with the flavor because I'm terrible at that.

Again, I suggest just trying out said mafiascum-esque type game with multiple roles and see how people like it. It can't hurt to try.

If someone would like to see the rules of said game, I can dig them up. It would give everyone a chance to acquaint themselves with the subtle and drastic differences in the game style.

In essence, PD's 1-4 are things that are seen on mafiascum.
Role-claiming ANY role is also a big one.

So, if people would want to run with this new game, I can:
1.) Put a list of the rules in this thread, and see how people react
2.) Start up the game when nder deems is necessary.
3.) Need a co-mod to help with flavor and other things if the game gets large.

quote:

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Originally posted by rayragnarok:
would that include being able to save the cop after revealing his role?

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No.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tranderas:
The detective would replace the Cop. The Cop role would be consolidated into the Detective, which could check, ambush or NK (the NK part is optional, as i see it as being a problem); then the "bum" would function like the Cop does now, checking one person per night. I am just clearing up my suggestion, because i don't know if you were suggesting a different way for it to work or confused about the proposal.

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I am suggesting what it would have to be for it to work within our universe.

__________________
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There is nuthin wrong with the current game format just the issues at hand are what bug me....

1. Lack of participation
2. Overly defensive people

I would hate to think that we are changing the format to give the cits that winning edge...other wise we are just trying a new style... who knows.

When players lack the posting number....I wonder why they even bothered to sign up...its wasting our time as players of the game...I wonder if people even bother to read the opening post...as I am guilty of this... but cmon you signed up atleast make that effort.

also what are the rules on cop hinting... i have seen it in the past couple of games where people who are actual cits try to lure the Mafia in to thinking he or she is a cop....is this even allowed....

Players can not lie about being the Cop!

Almost everyone will have a role in this game, whether good bad or neutral, so participation should be up, seeing as they will have a role. Usually the least talkative people are regular citizens. So, to increase talking increase roles. The game will still be as balanced as games I've have played in the past.

The rules changes otherwise are a way to try something new and different - another way to spur on excitement and participation. It adds a different elementa (or 2) to the game that people will not be so used to, so the game will be new and exciting, seeing people adapt and adjust.

quote:

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Originally posted by dakrum:
w00f?

Then again, with the board issue I don't know if worrying about starting a new game is the best option anyway.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gawain:
I was wondering when we were gonna try to fire up another one myself...

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More roles, different voting methods, etc.

Again, depends on interest.

~MM

__________________
I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion and 2007 Captain N award winner.

MafiaBass (9:48:50 PM): sorry my keyboard is sticky
MeddlingEric (9:48:56 PM): ewwww
MafiaBass (9:51:43 PM): FTR, I did not show you my e-pee-pee

Anyone still interested in playing or is Mafia dead for good?