WCFmo is possibly on the block here. He has fwy's vote, possibly MM's vote and possibly MAB's vote. I do not feel that WCFmo is a troll and I don't plan on seeing another MOTLer hit the rail. This is why I hate it when people don't declare their votes.

That was an insightful post by Gawain, but I'm still suspicious of him at this point. I actually didn't see or catch that WCFmo actually bowed out of the fwy/WCFmo conversation either

I am going to tentatively vote for MAB. We won't get much out of him any other way other than to force his hand or remove him entirely and at least fwybwed and Gawain ARE trying to participate.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
This is something else to consider looking at the body language of the posts made so far and from last round.

WCFmo is possibly on the block here. He has fwy's vote, possibly MM's vote and possibly MAB's vote. I do not feel that WCFmo is a troll and I don't plan on seeing another MOTLer hit the rail. This is why I hate it when people don't declare their votes.

That was an insightful post by Gawain, but I'm still suspicious of him at this point. I actually didn't see or catch that WCFmo actually bowed out of the fwy/WCFmo conversation either

I am going to tentatively vote for MAB. We won't get much out of him any other way other than to force his hand or remove him entirely and at least fwybwed and Gawain ARE trying to participate.

{SUMMARY: some more thoughts}
{VOTING: MAB}

---

Gaw is mostly right, not really bowing out of it but I'm saying I'm done even responding to FWY. It is of no use to argue anymore with him but I will still analyze his posts for any info I can to determine his citizenship.

Not sure who/who isn't on the chopping block, but I'm still voting zak. THe only thing that bothers me about MAB is that he says he is busy but he's also playing the Vanishing tournament last week and scored his deck fairly quick, just my two cents.

You may switch your vote should you choose to do so. Or don't. I'll use your current vote if you don't change it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tranderas:
I posted previously that I didn't like fwy's logic. Since then, he's been excessively defensive and hasn't shown any new, good logic. I think he's trying to set us up to vote out WCFmo. Since I have yet to see anything that screams that WCFmo is trolling us (besides that huge wall of text, which he has yet to summarize) I will be submitting a vote for him.

{VOTING: fwybwed}

---

Can u please show me my logic you did not like....and also show me where I am getting defensive...this will show others what you are talking about in your post..and will help me explain my posts in a better light for you...

thanks

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gawain:
Two posts up you say that you hate the idea that the back and forth between you and WCFmo is bad for the town, but you just can't let these few niggling questions go.

---

Hmm funny that you say they are "niggling" questions. and yes I never let them go cuz WCF never answered them... he kept saying I was the one who started the bandwagon on Bernek77 yet I never once posted in any point to finger bernek at all it took him how many responses to respond with an answer to my questions lol....and it wasnt even worth a look....and it proves that I never started any wagon on anyone...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gawain:
You have no such excuse Fwyb.

---

I dont need an excuse...tho I have seen the effects of such back & forth to realize it could be bad if no one is willing to read it...like you have not.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gawain:
Ok, I can't let this one go. It's a completely personal, purposefully out of character (but genuinely me) response that has nothing to do with the game, and which I will not allow to color my list of suspects one bit, but I just can't let it go. You've played with me for how many games Fwyb? Do you take me for an idiot? Do you think I NEED a coach to formulate a well-thought out defensive response to an attack or suspicion against me? Or that I would accept someone's attempt to handle me? I'm frankly insulted by this post, and though I don't want to start a fight, I do want to make it clear that my posts and responses are 100% my own, 100% of the time.

---

ok wow...this to me seems a lil bit over dramatic....anyone else think so lol To me its like a teenager having one beer and pretending to stagger around hahaaa

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCF:
FWY ***
Quotes GAW/ZAK - Zak mirroring GAW, Me for buddying with Gawain and Dakrum, Not answering his questions, avoiding questions and copping out of discussion.

---

FIXED!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan:
3.) I agree that fwy has been falling back into his old habits of posting, without any continuity to his posts. However, he has been under a lot of heat. Not making excuses, just my take on it.

---

really can u show where this is happening on those backlashee spouts I used to have... thanks...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gawain:
You are tunneling and you are provoking pointless arguments, and since you have to know better, that leads me to believe that you must be doing it purposefully. Major, major suspicion points garnered for Fwyb in my book at this point. Probably where my vote is going.

---

From what I've seen of Fwybwed, this is some of the stuff he usually does. At least to the tunneling. I wouldn't put fwy on out of character based on that, because I seem to remember previous posts of his (from previous games) where his ideas aren't very open-ended. You may have a better beat on him than I do Gawain, but I thought it would be helpful to point out mine.

If anything, I would call a more conservative fwybwed, who is quieter, and less confrontational out of character.

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
Well looks like I hit some nerves... with Gawain and WCF

jes took one person to insight some bad logic and they jumped for it...but unlike WCF I am willing to fall for MOTL...

this will show you who the trolls are...

---

This seems to be a perfect example of a garden variety fwyb post. IMO. I think Gawain, this type of thing is what you're referring to?

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:

For the record, I don't like hili's playing so far. Lacking compared to normal.

---

haha, somebody noticed... Admittedly I have not been putting the time in, and have been a pretty crappy replacement thus far. That will change. What alarms me is that with the people posting their asses off, nobody mentioned it until here. If I'm another player looking at hilikuS, who is not posting his ass off, I'm wondering why. It kind of alarms me that nobody has made anything of that thus far.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:

I am going to tentatively vote for MAB. We won't get much out of him any other way other than to force his hand or remove him entirely and at least fwybwed and Gawain ARE trying to participate.

---

There seems to be plenty of other, less talkative players still around, why pick on MAB personally? I'm thinking his angry post is being scrutinized a little too much here. From what I've seen, the thread has been dominated by a few of the players, and a bunch of others are just chilling out. Is MAB's angry post really that suspicious, or did he just feel irritated at that time? I tend to feel that if a player gets upset like that, it's usually because people are making misconceptions about his situation or his posts, not because they're trying to hide something.

As far as my own suspicions, it seems to me that Gawain is trying to provoke fwyb in the last few of his posts (especially the big one). I think he knows fwyb will take the bait, because he's never resisted before. Perhaps he's trying to get fwybwed lynched? I know from experience that a great way to get the citizens to lynch somebody is to successfully provoke that player. I think that might be happening here with Gawain vs. fwyb.

In regards to WCFmo, he's doing the same stuff as last game, which was being a driving force in the conversation. I loved what he did last game (he was a citizen), and don't see anything different this time around. With the sheer volume of text he produces, somebody's going to think something is suspicious. As of right now he seems to be playing what will soon be called a patented WCFmo game.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:

My vote is submitted. If I'm in the mood, I'll share it.

---

Ok, I feel like saying it.

{VOTING: Tranderas}

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - Three Years Running for 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My Nationals)

Co-Founder of Long Island's Newest Vintage Team - Team of Towers

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zakman86:
Where did I say that I supported Trand as a policy lynch? I said Trand was a troll, not that he was a good policy lynch.

---

I forgot to answer this from earlier.

I was mentioning this post below from round 2. It's not a particularly suspicious post or anything, but I thought it was worthy enough to mention.

That being said... I'm still planning on keeping my vote on Tranderas, mainly because he's posted all of once in 2 rounds; if he is a troll, great, if not, it's a good policy lynch because he's not contributing.

quote:

---

Originally posted by hilikuS:
What alarms me is that with the people posting their asses off, nobody mentioned it until here.

There seems to be plenty of other, less talkative players still around, why pick on MAB personally? I'm thinking his angry post is being scrutinized a little too much here.

---

I did some cutting on this from your earlier post so that the only thing in this quote was your play concern and question to me.

I made some brief mentions of how I dislike the silence yesterday, but the number of players who are being more silent than usual is disturbingly high. It is something that ALL of the players have to fix, not just one or two players.

My vote for MAB was a tentative vote; however, the logic behind it was two-fold. I already made my case in round one why not declaring your votes was a bad thing for the MOTLers and yet he decided to do it again. That just makes no sense - he shouldn't have any problem taking one minute to post it and giving the MOTLers as much information as he can. The second thing is that he has contributed little other than "I'm busy - go away". You were also guilty of both accounts (and I am suspicious of you because of it), but I felt that placing my tentative vote on him was the best option.

Even if he is mad that life isn't going too well (and I hope that things get better for him soon), he can do something much better than tell us to get off his back. If anything, his anger is either a troll strategy or something that is just not helpful to his fellow MOTLers. How hard is it to say "Sorry guys"?

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:

My vote for MAB was a tentative vote; however, the logic behind it was two-fold. I already made my case in round one why not declaring your votes was a bad thing for the MOTLers and yet he decided to do it again. That just makes no sense - he shouldn't have any problem taking one minute to post it and giving the MOTLers as much information as he can. The second thing is that he has contributed little other than "I'm busy - go away". You were also guilty of both accounts (and I am suspicious of you because of it), but I felt that placing my tentative vote on him was the best option.

Even if he is mad that life isn't going too well (and I hope that things get better for him soon), he can do something much better than tell us to get off his back. If anything, his anger is either a troll strategy or something that is just not helpful to his fellow MOTLers. How hard is it to say "Sorry guys"?

---

Admittedly that sounds like a policy lynch to me. While I agree that silent players (myself included until now) are a problem, it's going to be tough to start taking them out because of that. Yes they're hard to read, and yes it's a pain in the butt, but I think we've gotta go with the best lead at hand. If you think that's MAB's frustrated post then that's fine, but if you have any other ideas, I'd like to hear them. I'm personally not sold on MAB as a troll.

The one thing I would like to point out is that yes, silents have been a huge and constant problem in the mafia/werewolf/troll game, but at the same time, we shouldn't be trying to set a precedent for the next game. It's not in the interest of this game's success to do so. It's sort of a catch 22 the way I see it. I think the best possible scenerio is to keep cracking at what we do have.

WCFmo's approach seems to be the most logical in regards to keeping people occupied. At least in the last werewolf game, he was asking questions constantly, and asking people to clarify their reasoning or post more suspicions or whatever else. Silents aren't non-posters, just rare posters. Holding accountable their posts seems like the way to go. Obviously there has been some level of that going on, but perhaps it should increase?

quote:

---

Originally posted by hilikuS:
Admittedly that sounds like a policy lynch to me.

---

If you feel that it's a policy lynch, then that's fine. The vote was tentative and not definitive.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
If you feel that it's a policy lynch, then that's fine. The vote was tentative and not definitive.

MAB's play was very poor for an MOTLer and I'm genuinely suspicious of him for it. Information helps the MOTLers much more than it helps the trolls.

---

And yet, before the new deadline, I went with the policy and announced my vote. Yet, you don't seem to want to mention that.

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - Three Years Running for 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My Nationals)

Co-Founder of Long Island's Newest Vintage Team - Team of Towers

quote:

---

Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
And yet, before the new deadline, I went with the policy and announced my vote. Yet, you don't seem to want to mention that.

---

It was only about the round before the extension.

Since the votes seem to be scattered, I don't see a reason why we shouldn't go for a massive round tie and squeeze out every bit of information that there is to get. The only problem with that is that we don't have MeddlingMage's vote and I can't tell if anybody has changed their votes.

Can I get everybody to confirm who they are voting for (or say who they are voting for)? Should I consider a vote on somebody else for the sake of the MOTLers? It is still currently on MAB but again it is only a tentative vote and I don't mind forcing Zakman86 to finally come out.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
It was only about the round before the extension.

Since the votes seem to be scattered, I don't see a reason why we shouldn't go for a massive round tie and squeeze out every bit of information that there is to get. The only problem with that is that we don't have MeddlingMage's vote and I can't tell if anybody has changed their votes.

Can I get everybody to confirm who they are voting for (or say who they are voting for)? Do you want me to put a vote on somebody else for the sake of the MOTLers? It is still currently on MAB.

{SUMMARY: who is everybody voting for?}

---

So today, for my analysis I tried examining posts by one player that mention another (I picked zak).

Randomly, I looked at every single post by ryan that mentioned Zak, here they are:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ryan:
Zakman86 - vote of Trand as seconding of "troll." Very interesting

...

So let me get this straight, Zak. You are suspicious of me because I through out the whole WIFOM ON MYSELF and because of the double bluff scenario? So if I would have said nothing about the whole thing, you wouldn't be suspicious of me?

...

quote:Originally posted by dakrum:
I'm still going to be voting for Zakman86 or Gawain though.

So let me get this straight. You lay out a fairly extensive(albeit poor) case against me, yet still want to vote for Zak or Gawain? Doesn't make any sense at all. Just seeing who will join your bandwgagon that you created, but you aren't on it so when people look at votes you won't be on a cit wagon? Seems like the exact same thing MM was trying to do with mentioning the coolio/junichi thing, only much worse.

---

What happenned to that initial suspicion of zak ryan? Why does it seem like you only pop in to defend yourself?

Question to players - does anyone remember a game where ryan was a wolf/mafia/etc and want to provide me a link?

I'm still voting zak, but I'm just curious why ryan dropped the trand thing on zak at the beginning.

Also,

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zakman86:
THere's been no NK yet. No sense in me posting too much until we get to Day 2, that's just asking for trouble.

Besides, when I was Mafia I was also travelling back from San Diego.

---

This is one of the weirdest posts. It was a full hour after the NK was posted that zak said there was no NK. As zak is considered a "good player" I'd think he'd of realized that. It almost sounds like an intentional "oops" --> I've been busy type of move by zak.

Especially after I had posted that one of these people - Battle_of_Twits, iliketrain, Jazaray, zakman86 is likely a wolf. Considering that of those 4, only BoT --> HILI, ILI, and Zak are left, and I'm most suspicious of zak, I will vote him again.

(VOTING: ZAK}

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
{SUMMARY: who is everybody voting for?}

---

I stand by my previous position, for all the same reasons:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tranderas:
I posted previously that I didn't like fwy's logic. Since then, he's been excessively defensive and hasn't shown any new, good logic. I think he's trying to set us up to vote out WCFmo. Since I have yet to see anything that screams that WCFmo is trolling us (besides that huge wall of text, which he has yet to summarize) I will be submitting a vote for him.

{VOTING: fwybwed}

---

I had a Neuroscience exam on Friday, and a Behavioral Science exam today. Haven't had much time to post, but my vote stands where it is.

I can give you links to my mafia games, starting earliest to most recent in chronological order.
Mafia 35-This was my second game ever, and occurred right before Liq/Josh broke the earlier form of mafia where mafia members didn't actually have real votes, only "declared votes."
Mafia II-Me and Josh run the gambit IIRC. For the record, I think it was this game where hilikus said "Ryan should be lynched early if he isn't night killed strictly because he plays so well as mafia." I hope it never gets to that point, but alas, it is what it is. Mafia VII-Me and Thror together. He plays an excellent game. I play an extremely dangerous game.

Looks like WCFmo, another Regular, gets the hammer.

<Please put the Hammer here )

Waitaminute... does that vote tally say Bernek77 voted?

*************************
*************************
*************************
Bernek77 appeared out of nowhere. "Sorry about the ruse, guys. I knew they were onto me and I only had once chance to survive, so I made a second account to hide in. Of course, all that was in vain since rather than being hacked I got banned... but that's water under the bridge. Unfortunately this account does not have moderator priveliges, so I can't check IP addresses anymore. I am voting for WCFmo.

ADMIN and TROLLS, I need names

{SUMMARY: WCFmo banned, Bernek77 returns taking iliketrain's spot, get me names}

To be clear, Bernek77 is NOT the moderator anyomre. He assumed iliketrain's role. The only name he submitted to me is of someone who is out of the game. More discussion after the game.

I will explain my logic later today, but I'm near positive that ryan2754 is a troll now.

dakrum, I look forward to your accusations.

Vote analysis to come after the NK.

I was just thinkin back about my comments I had made...

You are still here...why is that...as i stated earlier ryan I feel you are one of the better players here...you would either be one to get suspicion cast upon you and lynched or you are a troll..

Im going with the latter in this one...

WCF made soem mistakes when it came to dealing with accusations...like gawain he took it personal...he never answered questions and avoided them all together after the fact....like gawain he should have better defended himself in a better manner...

what surprises me tho is that he even got lynched the votes are so spread open.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dakrum:
WCFmo is possibly on the block here. He has fwy's vote, possibly MM's vote and possibly MAB's vote. I do not feel that WCFmo is a troll and I don't plan on seeing another MOTLer hit the rail. This is why I hate it when people don't declare their votes.

---

well you are 2 for 2 in the innocents game on each lynched regular....how do you know this much....it seems to me you are "guessing" right on who is innocent but not providing the MOTL crew with any insight as to who is a troll....

I felt he was a troll due to my comments above...but you seem so sure before each lynch, like you are showing everyone that you were right...I dont buy this...I feel you are a troll...and "if you and I survive the next round I will be voting for you"

lets see where this comment takes us...

EDIT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ryan:
It seems Bernek's vote could *technically* be seen as a way to save fwy or Trand. I don't like this one bit.

---

Reading is tech.

More people trying to use terrible arguments against me.
Keep 'em comin'!

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
fwy, did you forget to read the part of Monty's post where it says, oh yeah, that Bernek's first round guess as Mod was of someone already out of the game, so it doesn't affect the outcome and that he has fully assumed ILT's role.

Reading is tech.

More people trying to use terrible arguments against me.
Keep 'em comin'!

[/B]

---

You have to get your information straight first - yes, reading is tech. Of course, you already know that since you're going to survive the NK so why worry right?

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
It seems Bernek's vote could *technically* be seen as a way to save fwy or Trand. I don't like this one bit.

dakrum, I look forward to your accusations.

Vote analysis to come after the NK.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
fwy, did you forget to read the part of Monty's post where it says, oh yeah, that Bernek's first round guess as Mod was of someone already out of the game, so it doesn't affect the outcome and that he has fully assumed ILT's role.

Reading is tech.

More people trying to use terrible arguments against me.
Keep 'em comin'!

---

Monty!?!? wheres this comin from lol reading is tech is so RIGHT!

and tell me where I stated that B77s lynch vote was a scrye vote...I sed "SUSPICION"

based on his contuation of suspects in R1 did any of us know if WCf was his scrye NO! I assumed this earlier after he was lnched and his one and only vote was for WCF....he came back in the game and voted the same way in R1....I never sed anything of it been a scrye vote....Do we know now? YES....

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
Just in case I'm NKed since I think that the trolls will want to make the next round end on Thursday and round 5 to end on Monday, I think that the three trolls are ryan2754, Zakman86, and Bernek77 with Gawain, OGB, and MAB being clearly below them.

I will explain my logic later today, but I'm near positive that ryan2754 is a troll now.

{SUMMARY: announces suspects}

---

I'm more interested to hear why you think Bernek is a troll - he replaced someone who posted all of two times the entire game!