@ryan: Do you think that, if MM was a troll, he would throw the framing you strategy in our faces? Jaz posted her one random vote, which seems typical Jaz. MAB, I have no clue on, never played with him before.

I haven't the slightest clue how to begin strategizing this game. At this point I would say let's start weeding out the silents but there are much more than usual that I'm not sure that'll be effective. On the other hand, we have very little to go on.

What are people's feelings on policy lynches?

{SUMMARY: asks ryan to clarify post, OGB is confused}

quote:

---

Originally posted by OGB:
OK, just caught up with everything.

@ryan: Do you think that, if MM was a troll, he would throw the framing you strategy in our faces? Jaz posted her one random vote, which seems typical Jaz. MAB, I have no clue on, never played with him before.

I haven't the slightest clue how to begin strategizing this game. At this point I would say let's start weeding out the silents but there are much more than usual that I'm not sure that'll be effective. On the other hand, we have very little to go on.

What are people's feelings on policy lynches?

{SUMMARY: asks ryan to clarify post, OGB is confused}

---

No I don't, but I can't put it past him. I feel if he were a troll, he would allow someone else to stumble upon it, and if no one did, use it in later rounds to get me killed. I don't think as a troll he would put himself on one end of the see-saw that quickly.

quote:

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Originally posted by OGB:
What are people's feelings on policy lynches?

---

I'm going to refer to what PD said in Mafia 10 since he's put it in better words than I could have put it in. I really don't think we should be focusing on policy lynches right now.

Thus, I don't think we should be lynching ryan2754 at this point in time because I think that keeping him around is the better call (granted, no matter when we do it, it will still be a policy/info lynch, but the trolls can run the risk of keeping him around). If he is a troll, then it does cost us quite a bit since he can still control the action and NKs, but if he is a villager/MOTLer, then we lose a ton of valuable analysis and throw another valuable lynch down the drain. This doesn't mean that anybody can't become suspicious of ryan2754 for any other reason, but IMHO the rewards are greater than the risks.

One other question to float around is this: who does Bernek like to check/scry/NK first the most? Does anybody know of other instances where he was the cop/seer?

On the matter of a policy lynch, now that I have seen one in action, here's my thoughts on the subject:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Policy lynches are an all around crappy play. When there is a policy lynch there is less discussion, no wolf has to put himself or herself on the line, and the pile analysis goes to crap. For the love of reason, please let's NOT do this.

quote:

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Originally posted by ryan2754:
No I don't, but I can't put it past him. I feel if he were a troll, he would allow someone else to stumble upon it, and if no one did, use it in later rounds to get me killed. I don't think as a troll he would put himself on one end of the see-saw that quickly.

BoT does make a decent point about Trand. Could be a troll lackey, but don't see him as leader.

---

Lesson one I've learned about Mafia/WW: Don't put anything past anyone to do or not do.

That being said... I'm still planning on keeping my vote on Tranderas, mainly because he's posted all of once in 2 rounds; if he is a troll, great, if not, it's a good policy lynch because he's not contributing.

That being said, I'm keeping an eye on Ryan (possibly double bluff, admitted WIFOM), and MAB_Rapper because I flat can't get a read, which kinda tingles my Spidey sense. Volcanon not posting until AFTER THE Kill with a Vote is suspicious as well.

quote:

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Originally posted by dakrum:

One other question to float around is this: who does Bernek like to check/scry/NK first the most? Does anybody know of other instances where he was the cop/seer?

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I'm not really sure how this is relevant. Unless you are implying that the trolls knew Bernek was the seer?

^This happened a couple days ago. I thought the thread was a joke so I just ignored it, until thror told me it was a real game.

I've looked over the thread and this is a summary of what I've found so far. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken on anything I've said here, but this is what I've seen.

1) Ryan and WCFmo had an interaction in which Ryan overreacted, WCFmo elaborated and apologized, and Ryan (sort of) calmed down and relented.
2) We had two no-votes in round 1, besides myself.
3) We've had one person who voted but has yet to post to explain her vote (Jazaray).
4) Volcanon posted that he was voting for bernek after bernek had already been banned.

#3 and #4 worry me. Having no-votes is one thing; having people voting without contributing to the situation is another thing entirely. I will be going, then, for Jaz, for voting but not telling us why she voted the way she did.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tranderas:

3) We've had one person who voted but has yet to post to explain her vote (Jazaray).

---

As my post stated, I voted based on a random die roll. Since all votes have to be PM and they are all made public, it means nothing if I don't post it here. Everyone gets to see that I voted for BoT based on a random die roll.

Now, I haven't checked really anything since I last posted, because like I said, I have a life which has been much more hectic than I could have imagined.

Since Volcanon hasn't posted and is really no value here, my vote is there.

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - Three Years Running for 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My Nationals)

Co-Founder of Long Island's Newest Vintage Team - Team of Towers

quote:

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Originally posted by OGB:
I'm not really sure how this is relevant. Unless you are implying that the trolls knew Bernek was the seer?

---

No player in the game except for Bernek knew who the moderator was - I stated this when I addressed fwy.

The reason I asked that question though was this - if Bernek was a seer or cop in the past, then we might have a clue as to who he actually investigated now (or at least a data point or two). If he always went for the best player or something like that, then that's a major tell that ryan2754 probably isn't a troll because he didn't give us a single hint about him. If he always went after somebody like Thanos or somebody else that he knew very well, then we can look much more closely at WCFmo.

Bernek is above board - I don't know why we aren't scratching every bit of data out of his posts and thought pattern that we can. However, all I can see is that he made a mention to junichi (which would have been a very likely scry target) and Tranderas, went after WCFmo, and defended himself against fwy. That doesn't tell us that much unless he investigated WCFmo - am I missing something important?

Now, onto some questions that I would like answers to:

@Zakman86 - are you not suspicious of iliketrain and Jaz at this point in time?

@MAB - why not go after iliketrain for not posting at all? What about the other silents? Also -

quote:

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
Since all votes have to be PM and they are all made public, it means nothing if I don't post it here.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoshSherman:
How the game works, in step order:
1) The head Salvation Troll chooses an account to hack.
2a) The Moderator chooses a member's IP address to check.
2b) The Administrator chooses whose password to reset for the round.
3) Everyone discusses who might be a Salvation Troll and/or the best way to determine who could be.
4) It's banning time! All members take a vote (in a private ballot booth), and the member with the most votes at the specified time for vote collection is banned by Leshrac. In the event of a tie, a new vote shall be taken exactly twenty-four hours after the first.
See step 1

---

You could not be any more wrong about harmful a totally unannounced vote was. Granted, your vote didn't hurt anything, but coolio's vote was VERY costly. As a player, your vote has tremendous power and it must be used in the best possible fashion. That means that you must know the rules and what you vote can and cannot do.

So let me get this straight, Zak. You are suspicious of me because I through out the whole WIFOM ON MYSELF and because of the double bluff scenario? So if I would have said nothing about the whole thing, you wouldn't be suspicious of me?

MM, why did you mention the whole junichi/coolio thing without necessarily giving an opinion about it? Trying to stir the pot without actually being the one to MAKE the wagon on me, so as not to cast blame on yourself? Point out the fact, but let others decide my fate, then you say "I just mentioned it I wasn't on the wagon." Seems like a little hidden agenda to me. Why not give your opinion?

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:

The reason I asked that question though was this - if Bernek was a seer or cop in the past, then we might have a clue as to who he actually investigated now (or at least a data point or two). If he always went for the best player or something like that, then that's a major tell that ryan2754 probably isn't a troll because he didn't give us a single hint about him. If he always went after somebody like Thanos or somebody else that he knew very well, then we can look much more closely at WCFmo.

Bernek is above board - I don't know why we aren't scratching every bit of data out of his posts and thought pattern that we can. However, all I can see is that he made a mention to junichi (which would have been a very likely scry target) and Tranderas, went after WCFmo, and defended himself against fwy. That doesn't tell us that much unless he investigated WCFmo - am I missing something important?

---

There's a flaw in your logic regarding who Bernek may or may not have scryed. First, it's arguable as to whether ryan2754 is or is not the best player in the mix of players that started off this game; I've heard rumors that both Junichi and Coolio are oldschool badasses, Jaz has proven on more than one occasion that she can be extremely dangerous, etc. Second, if Bernek DID scry Ryan, and Ryan WAS a Troll, that does not necessarily mean that he would immediately start trying to drop hints. He may have been biding his time for the right moment, trying to buy another round or two before taking the risk of revealing himself, etc. That's why it's such a bummer when the cop/seer/moderator gets nailed before he/she has a chance to reveal anything, because then it's all up to speculation.

quote:

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Originally posted by ryan2754:
Holy ****balls batman...junichi and coolio? This is gonna be good...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
Just wanted to put this out there.

~MM

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan:
Actually, I think it's a really good thing you pointed this out, MM.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan:
No I don't, but I can't put it past him. I feel if he were a troll, he would allow someone else to stumble upon it, and if no one did, use it in later rounds to get me killed. I don't think as a troll he would put himself on one end of the see-saw that quickly.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan:
MM, why did you mention the whole junichi/coolio thing without necessarily giving an opinion about it? Trying to stir the pot without actually being the one to MAKE the wagon on me, so as not to cast blame on yourself? Point out the fact, but let others decide my fate, then you say "I just mentioned it I wasn't on the wagon." Seems like a little hidden agenda to me. Why not give your opinion?

---

I'm confused. You went from "glad you mentioned this" to "why did you mention this" So how come your position on this changed so quickly?

~MM

__________________
I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion and 2007 Captain N award winner.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:

Now, onto some questions that I would like answers to:

@Zakman86 - are you not suspicious of iliketrain and Jaz at this point in time?

{SUMMARY: addresses OGB, asks Zakman and MAB questions}

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
So let me get this straight, Zak. You are suspicious of me because I through out the whole WIFOM ON MYSELF and because of the double bluff scenario? So if I would have said nothing about the whole thing, you wouldn't be suspicious of me?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zakman86:
Jaz is playing her usual game and iliketrain likely doesn't have the knowledge of the older players to dissect like that.

---

I'm still glad you brought it up, as I put a lot of info out there. However, I'm intrigued as to what your OPINION of your own post is - what do you think is relevant with my earlier post? Do you have an opinion on it with regards to the game?

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
Iliketrain hasn't posted yet. Would you like to try again?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zakman86:
What does whether he's posted or not have to do with my opinion? I obviously don't have a read on him one way or another... and I don't know if he's even played before here. 2+2=you witchhunting, IMO... hiding something?

---

I only point out what I see. I'm questioning your logic and thought process and defense and it's as simple as that. You can take it however you wish.

If you don't know if he's ever played here before, then how can you even make the suggestion that he can't "dissect" the older players? He already TOLD us that he wasn't good at these games when he signed up - or did you forget that already?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zakman86:
What does whether he's posted or not have to do with my opinion? I obviously don't have a read on him one way or another... and I don't know if he's even played before here. 2+2=you witchhunting, IMO... hiding something?

---

I still don't like the way zak has been posting, maybe I'm the only one.

MM - is way too active this game versus last.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gawain:

I do agree with your other point regarding Bernek though, he is a proven townie and we should be scrutinizing his posts further; I will go back and have a read through to see what I can find, but don't get your hopes up too much regarding other folks doing this.

---

I have a feeling that you already know what you are looking for. (edit - to spell it out, you already know what you want to find)

Volcannon's latest post is very wolfy

quote:

---

Originally posted by Volcanon:
I bet the salvation troll is Tranderas. Just analying his text it looks like he is hiding something.

---

Re: Ryan - I think he's a cit, no mafia/wolf/troll would pull a double bluff like that (killing off the people mentioned in his post) so early IMHO. Major turnaround, and I really haven't had time to analyze this round...so take that for what its worth.

I'm leaning toward volcannon or zak as of now. Anywise, I'm gonna go hit my head against a wall...been working since 6 am till 8 pm, and I have need to do a little more work....argghhh.

{SUSPECT: Volcannon, Zak, Gaw}

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCFmo:
MM - is way too active this game versus last.

---

Seriously? I get blasted for my play last game, and then, I actually keep up and participate this game and now this? Pfft.

@ryan

I don't have an opinion about that, and just thought it to be ironic. Do I think that makes you a troll. Maybe. Do I think it could be a weird round-about frame up. Probably.

However WIFOM and double bluffs are always abundant and in this case it could possibly be the latter.

I haven't made up my mind on who to vote for yet.

~MM

__________________
I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion and 2007 Captain N award winner.

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCFmo:

edit for the lolz
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=220607

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gwain:
I've heard rumors that both Junichi and Coolio are oldschool badasses, Jaz has proven on more than one occasion that she can be extremely dangerous, etc.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zak:
but I remember reading MAB_Rapper playing in older games, and coolio and junichi were both old-school players. Jaz is playing her usual game and iliketrain likely doesn't have the knowledge of the older players to dissect like that.

---

Hmmm

quote:

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
Things you DON'T need to do:
(2) You don't need to issue a SUSPECT tag for a player you are voting for. (i.e. {SUSPECT: joe} {VOTE: joe} -- this is meaningless, the tracker will ignore the suspicion in favor of the vote.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
{SUSPECT: Gawain (med - OOC and fishy logic)}
{VOTING: Gawain}

---

The proper way to tag this would be:

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
{VOTING: Gawain (med - OOC and fishy logic)}

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tranderas:
{SUSPECT: Jazaray (voting without sharing logic behind vote)}
{VOTING: Jazaray}

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Volcanon:
{SUSPECT: TRANDERAS, he's hiding something}
{VOTING: TRANDERAS}

---

code:

---

Battle_of_Twits BOT
Bernek77        B77
coolio          COO
dakrum          DAK
fwybwed         FWY
Gawain          GAW
iliketrain      ILT
Jazaray         JAZ
junichi         JUN
MAB_Rapper      MAB
MeddlingMage    MM
OGB             OGB
ryan2754        RYN
Tranderas       TRA
Volcanon        VOL
WCFmo           WCF
Zakman86        ZAK

---

My leading suspect at this point in time is Zakman86 and I'm about as suspicious of Gawain now as I was round one. However, if Jazaray doesn't contribute in a considerable way soon, she may win my vote for next round anyway.

{SUMMARY: where is Jaz, reveals leading suspect}