quote:

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Originally posted by OGB:
Are you referring to the game when he went nuts and got a 1 game ban?

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It was a two game suspension.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:

But if u look at his posts so far this game he is trying to be funny and that is how he was playing before he went off the wall. Trying to be funny.

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Not really man. I was only posting when you told me to, don't you remember that? The funny stuff came up after we decided there was no saving me.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:

I also believe he is trying to get a rise out of me due to the fact that I called out his playstyle.

---

Not trying to get a rise out of you, just merely pointing out your post didn't make sense man. You said you checked the thread and now you expect me to know you don't read anything besides the first post? LOL.

Like I told Monty (a wolf last game), I call them how I see them and I don't pull punches. Do I think you are a Salvation Troll? No idea man, probably not though. Last game we went at it for no reason b/c you wouldn't answer my questions (we were both cits), let's avoid that this time. Re: your questions about the funny stuff, I think I've consistently used a little levity and humor when posting, but you may see it different (you actually gotta read my posts to see it :P )

quote:

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Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
I glanced over my old WW Notes (The 1st Season) and didn't see their names anywhere...maybe they played mafia?

Liq, any help here?

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Tranderas played in the UBB Mafia 20-25 over 3 years ago. Left due to RL issues. Came back for WW3.

BoT began playing UBB Mafia about 18-20. On again, off again type player. WW8, WW10, Mafia 1, Mafia 4, Mafia 7.

Mafia Games
Werewolf Games

~MM

__________________
I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion and 2007 Captain N award winner.

quote:

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Originally posted by Gawain:
As PD pointed out at the end of last game, the odds of catching a baddie using random rolls were actually higher than our correct vote percentage, so that's what I'm gonna go with for R1.

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And the trap opens.

That is some fishy logic Gawain. The only reason that the correct vote percentage was considerably lower than pure random voting is because the wolves/trolls/mafia have become better at hiding and the stale cit metagame has allowed them to use evolving and fluid tactics to win time after time. We went over this after the past game - how did you miss this?

This isn't the first suspicious thing you've said so far either:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gawain:
So far nothing has really grabbed my attention, but that's no surprise. I'm gonna refrain from announcing a vote until we have more information, probably the day before the deadline. Anyone have any thoughts on the Junichi kill? I've never played with him before, and have no idea what his playstyle is like, so it's hard for me to determine whether it was random or not :/

---

This post appears purposefully loaded with fluff and only contains a question to the group about the NK (which is generally not a very cit-friendly thing to do). There isn't much I like about this, but more importantly, I think it is moderately OOC for you to make a post like this - I'm getting the impression that you actually do know something. You are my leading suspect and you are getting my vote.

I'm also suspicious of the way that two votes were placed on Tranderas (well, tentative votes of course). A player can only be a troll in the game if they post because a troll is a slang term for somebody that is POSTING. Therefore, why wouldn't you wait until he started posting before making your votes? From Wikipedia:

A troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

As things stand, our leading vote getter is a policy lynch. If he doesn't have any idea that the game has started (which is likely), then he is most likely not the moderator, administrator, or head troll. If the voter is a cit, then they have a 20% chance of being right with a random vote. In this case, while they are most likely not going after a positive role, their chance of getting a troll is only 13.3%. I frankly don't understand why anybody other than a troll would want a policy lynch right now.

What is also worrisome is that neither player voting for Tranderas declared it as a random vote. Since Zakman86 was the second one to post and hasn't said anything since (which is unusual for somebody who was begging players to post more often after the past game), I suspect him quite a bit and BoT only slightly (especially since he hasn't posted since). What kind of context allows you to vote somebody off for any reason you want Zakman86?

I really don't have a read on the WCFmo/Bernek77 debate.

My suspect list is as follows:

Medium: Gawain
Medium-Low: Zakman86
Low: Battle_of_Twits

{SUMMARY: my analysis}
{SUSPECT: Gawain (med - OOC and fishy logic)}
{SUSPECT: Zakman86 (med-low - strange logic and vote)}
{SUSPECT: Battle_of_Twits (low - not a random vote)}
{VOTING: Gawain}

quote:

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Originally posted by Gawain:
Well, it looks like there are wagons forming on both Bernek and WCFmo. Frankly, we have zilch to go on right now, and I'm not really comfortable with a rehash of R1 last game (the pointless Fwyb lynch). As PD pointed out at the end of last game, the odds of catching a baddie using random rolls were actually higher than our correct vote percentage, so that's what I'm gonna go with for R1. And the lucky chumpster is...MAB_Rapper.

---

Re: Wagons - I don't really see what you mean here Gawain, I don't see any wagons forming except on Bernek (maybe tranderas), it really doesn't sit right with me...are you rewriting history here so that you can try to wagon on me later?

Re: FWY - You were part of that group, too.

Re: Random rolls - I don't know if that's true, I didn't see any stats from PD but why would the wolves (or trolls) let one of their brethren go down like that, they'd of course vote and talk to make it seem like they wouldn't go down.

Right now, I have no idea whether bernek is a troll, but I do know one particular post bothered me -

quote:

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Originally posted by ryan2754:
I played with junichi back before Mafia was originally broke by Liq. He was a very good player. Have't played with Volcanon, coolio, Trand, or iliketrain.
Voting Bernek because he hasn't said anything, and because he's a Duke fan and my Butler Bulldogs lost.

{VOTE: Bernek (damn the blue devils)}

---

Isn't ryan one of the talkative people in the game? That's all he's posted so far, as I don't know if it's OOC play or not, but I'm gonna watch the life and times of tim right now and have some more beer as I gotta work all weekend (jury trial Tuesday).

So...

Finding things is only part of the game - getting other people to vote with you is another major part. I think Gawain is playing OOC and is throwing around lots of bad arguments because he's never been a mafia/troll and he doesn't know what to do.

quote:

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
You still need to PM your vote to JoshSherman.

---

Wow, glad I checked on this. Guess I gotta send out a PM.

quote:

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Originally posted by dakrum:
I did catch that WCFmo, but sometimes it's better to not say everything you see and stuff something in your back pocket so that you can win a counterargument. You can always post that you found something else later, but you don't want to throw all of your chips in one basket.

Finding things is only part of the game - getting other people to vote with you is another major part. I think Gawain is playing OOC and is throwing around lots of bad arguments because he's never been a mafia/troll and he doesn't know what to do.

Take this however you wish, but I need more than my vote to get Gawain. I know that it weakens my argument as a whole, but it leaves the door open to really stick it to him.

---

Hmmm, I don't know, I just reread a couple of posts by Gawain last round...I don't trust all your logic Darkrum, but he has pulled a 180 from last game (he voted with suspicions, now he is voting for randomness).

According to my tally, Bernek77 is a goner. Anyone who picked Duke over WVU should be banned anyway.

If you have a role, I need a name from you

1.) What side was Bernek on? We get nothing about his role.
2.) Seeing as some people had no votes turned in, I feel like they don't realize that the game is going on. Maybe a PM to EVERYBODY saying the game is on and into N1?
3.) WCFmo's vote was said for me, but you have it as Gawain. Did he not PM you his vote change? If so, I don't remember if I PMed you my vote or not, so yeah. Are you taking them from PMs or from declarations in thread. Clarification would be nice because I am pretty sure I never PMed you.

__________________
How many times do I have to have a secret rendezvous with your mom before you realize we have something special.

Not sure what to tell you about that

1.) What side was Bernek on? We get nothing about his role.

I had a specific reason for that, but seem to have lost track of it. Rectifying immediately.

2.) Seeing as some people had no votes turned in, I feel like they don't realize that the game is going on. Maybe a PM to EVERYBODY saying the game is on and into N1?

I'm feeling a little stubborn about this. I've met my deadlines, and if people had been reading the thread like they should have been if they signed up, they'd meet them as well. In short, I'm not a babysitter. To translate, I'll probably do it tomorrow.

3.) WCFmo's vote was said for me, but you have it as Gawain. Did he not PM you his vote change? If so, I don't remember if I PMed you my vote or not, so yeah. Are you taking them from PMs or from declarations in thread. Clarification would be nice because I am pretty sure I never PMed you.

I was nice this round, I won't be again. Votes will only be counted by me via MOTL PM from here on out. I double checked all votes and they are accurate.

quote:

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Originally posted by JoshSherman:
According to my tally, Bernek77 is a goner. Anyone who picked Duke over WVU should be banned anyway.

---

Unless of course, that person was your moderator. Oops.

I need a name from the Administrator and from the Head Troll ASAP

{summary: Bernek77 banned, he was the moderator}

quote:

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Originally posted by Volcanon:

Voting Bernek77

---

Looks like somebody is really late to the party. And he is now voting after the fact for someone who was actually one of the people we needed to keep alive.

Losing the Moderator really stinks, but wow did Bernek's arguments seems really weak. Either way, my suspect list stands as follows:

{Suspect: Volcanon, fwybwed, ryan2754}

Yes, I know coolio isn't on this list, but knowing both of them, coolio voting for him doesn't shock me.

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - Three Years Running for 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My Nationals)

Co-Founder of Long Island's Newest Vintage Team - Team of Towers

quote:

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Originally posted by ryan2754:

3.) WCFmo's vote was said for me, but you have it as Gawain. Did he not PM you his vote change? If so, I don't remember if I PMed you my vote or not, so yeah. Are you taking them from PMs or from declarations in thread. Clarification would be nice because I am pretty sure I never PMed you.

---

Woops, I hadn't sent in my vote for you by PM and I decided I liked darkrum's logic. Guess I didn't post that at the bottom of my thread stating I was gonna review the thread again.

quote:

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Originally posted by Joshsherman:
Moderator- Unfortunately, we don't have many tools to work with anymore. Once per round, you can check the IP address of one of the remaining board members.

---

Surprised no one has latched onto it yet, but bernek was our 'cop'/'seer' and he voted and suspected me. Rather than beat around the bush about it, if the players think that bernek scry'd me and I am a MOTL salvation troll then so be it, I don't want to wait to get booted till the end. If you have any suspicion of me at all then please let me know, but I'm not gonna spend X rounds stating the obvious again and hurt the MOTL users chances of winning. If I need to be lynched, LMK.

Also, just to make sure, Josh - did Bernek get to check the account status of a player during R0?

@ Mab - I agree on volcannon's vote, that is odd. Same with FWY and Ryan being suspects. However, volcanon's vote seems like it could be an honest mistake (as I'm not sure a Troll would come out and vote for the MOTL users best asset knowingly after it's already determined he is dead. I still think ryan is the most suspicious out of the bunch. If we don't find a troll in that group, I would be highly suspicious of MAB. Why didn't you list coolio in that list MAB? I don't even recall seeing a post by him. (edit - I fail at reading comprehension, just missed the last sentence of your post re: coolio)

@ Gawain - What do you think of all this madness?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Volcanon:

Voting Bernek77

---

Hmm.... no analysis, and a vote for someone who is already banned? This just seems... suspicious. Keeping an eye on him.

WCFmo seems to be all over the place, posting about several people. Seems standare WCFmo.

More analysis on the voters for Bernek is needed. Right now, Volcanon is the only one to make my suspicion list.

{SUMMARY: discusses WCF and VOLCANON posts}
{SUSPECTS: VOLCANON}

1.) A random vote for Bernek, in a time period where noone has said anything remotely suspicious and surrounded by other random votes. Not to mention me and Bernek have been exchanging jabs back and forth about the National Championship for a couple weeks now, hence the reasoning for my random vote.
2.) My inability to realize we had votes due on a Friday, which is totally messing with my system. Not to mention we had MAYBE 2.5 pages worth of actual game material, the majority of which was random and had no correlation to the actual game, just people posting minimally back and forth. We have, what, maybe 2 or three actuall active players currently, that have posted more than twice. I understand Josh intended this to be a joke and it has turned into an actual game, but come on, it will continue to be a joke if people don't participate.

I don't think I've ever been accused for worse logic.

Player A votes Player B.
Player B is pro-town role.
Thus, Player A is suspicious.

This is some of the worst logic ever used in this game and only gets the cits/members of MOTL into trouble, always. This always happens and the cits always lose (at lesat this is ONE of the reasons the cits always lose on this site, IMO, but I digress). Stupid.

{SUMMARY: Defends against horrible logic}

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
I understand Josh intended this to be a joke and it has turned into an actual game, but come on, it will continue to be a joke if people don't participate.

---

Pot/kettle, no offense.

Ryan - I have no idea other than the reason you stated (which could or couldn't be the truth, same as my vote) why you voted how you did, I'm more suspicious of that from what I've heard from your play is that you are a fairly active player when you are a cit (that's why bernek in mafia 9 wanted you to die first round - b/c you are a good player). So, instead of arguing about your vote, let's talk about who you suspect, if you are a user, tell me who you think has been suspicious.

Also, this is a UBB game man, people throw wild suspicions to the wind all the time from what I've seen. Let's throw some caution to the wind here, I'd like to see your A game.

@ OGB - wow, that is insightful...never thought of it like that. People would be suspicious of a player who did not vote, could be a great way to dull the suspicions of that player. IDK

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
I understand Josh intended this to be a joke and it has turned into an actual game, but come on, it will continue to be a joke if people don't participate.

---

+1,000,000.

To be fair, I did suspect people for voting randomly though so I'm not above prosecution on this. I just can't get over the fact that players still want to throw round one in the garbage or just go for a policy lynch and allow silence to completely dictate the game when they know as sure as **** that that's going to be the outcome. That drives me nuts.

coolio - Thoughts and reasoning for the vote? You didn't say who you were voting for and you provided no analysis AT ALL in the last round. It really hurt.

I am going to throw a few assumptions out there.
We have been getting our night actions in fairly quickly, no?

This makes me think that Trand, Volcanon, and iliketrain are neither the Salvation Troll leader or the administrator. I also find it highly unlikely that they may be a troll helper, or vigilante, but this is less definitive, depending on how the Troll leader is about discussing the kills. Still find it highly unlikely.

Do I think the junichi N0 kill was random? No. However, the general logic lately from the wolves, after they win, has been that their N0 kill was indeed random. Thus, I am going to try and stay clear of it. However later on down the line, might be worthwhile.

Thus, we have the following players left:
Battle_of_Twits - nothing abnormal from him this game. Intrigued by his Trand vote early on, but dunno whether it's good intrigued or bad intrigued.
WCFmo - Don't like his bone picking against Jaz on why TJ over Amala. She's done this before. But seems like he's kidding, so letting it go. IIoA. Tags along with dakrum on gawain. He then attacks me for not being talkative, and votes me. Very poor reasoning, but whatever. I'm not going to slip into OMGUS.
fwybwed - IIoA. His posts have been slightly weird, but sometimes that's the norm with fwy. vote on Bernek with no explanation.
MeddlingMage - IIoA. Follows fwy's vote of Bernek with a "random vote" on fwy. Could take this two ways: actual random vote, or acting as if a random vote and actually voting for a real reason (could be trying to pass it as a real vote, seeing as fwy voted without reason). MM can you clarify?
dakrum - Holds suspect off. Then goes after Gawain. Was that your original suspect dakrum that you held off talking about? At the very least, he is trying to scumhunt. +1. Why did you pick out Jaz/ryan/coolio/MAB for asking for thoughts? Again, just a question I'd like answered. Possible subtle buddying with WCFmo midway through page 4.
coolio - plays off like he doesn't know what's going on. Could be truthful, could be fake.
MAB_Rapper - Got nothing.
OGB - His first post on page 3 seems like a very subtle form of defense of Trand, but maybe looking to far into it. Also was harping on Bernek.
Jazaray - Nothing.
Zakman86 - vote of Trand as seconding of "troll." Very interesting.
Gawain - IIoA. Against weird rehashes of R1. I could go into game theory and how R1 being a crapshoot is fairly inevitable, but alas, I won't. He then starts quoting statistics, which is a subtle form of IIoA. I actually think some of dakrum's offense on Gawain is substantiated. I also agree that there aren't wagons forming after two votes, some of them random.

{SUSPECT: fwy (weird posts, no reasoning)}
{SUSPECT: MM (IIoA)}
{SUSPECT:coolio (need more from you, plus explanation of votes)}
{SUSPECT: gawain (hiding behind stats, some good logic from dakrum)}
{SUSPECT: MAB, Jaz (strictly because I have no read)}

EDIT: Fixed tags.