quote:

---

Originally posted by OGB:
I'm more interested to hear why you think Bernek is a troll - he replaced someone who posted all of two times the entire game!

---

Then I'll start with that.

There are only two reasons that anybody would have made a vote on somebody that could have resulted in WCFmo's lynch and broken up a very important tie:

1) They weren't paying ANY attention or weren't listening to the rules (and Bernek77 was in the game during round one and he replaced iliketrain earlier in the round and should have had an idea about the vote spread especially considering the comment I made earlier)
2) They are a troll that didn't want the MOTLers to gain any more information so they sacrificed themselves for the team.

Whether Bernek77 replaced a person who posted twice in the game or not doesn't mean a whole lot - a sacrifice is still a sacrifice and terrible thinking is still terrible thinking. Remember that we don't know why iliketrain was replaced in the fashion that he was so the MOTLers have to assume that it's for the wrong reasons.

There are two other things to consider here:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
Re-read thread.

Of everything I re-read these are the things that still stand out:

1.) MM's mentioning the coolio/junichi thing without formulating an opinion. Gut still says this is shady.
2.) Gawain makes an extremely good point about zakman and WIFOM. It's almost completely pointless mentioning.
3.) I agree that fwy has been falling back into his old habits of posting, without any continuity to his posts. However, he has been under a lot of heat. Not making excuses, just my take on it.
4.) I agree I don't like Mab's response. Extremely confrontational. Again I don't think people use RL as an excuse to win when mafia, but it just happens where they do have RL and react like Mab to it.

For the record, I don't like hili's playing so far. Lacking compared to normal.

Above all, what bothers me most is fwy's most recent string of posts.
In addition, like said before, extreme lack of posting by Trand, MM, ILT, and OGB. I am almost completely sold that there is no way for the MOTLers to win this, but I will still try my damndest to find scum.

Of everything, the only thing I am sure about is this:
I find it highly unlikely gawain is a troll.

However, I still can't get my gut past what MM said and hasn't said. This is where my vote is going.

{SUSPECT: ILT, fwy, MM, MAB}
{VOTING: MM}

---

Do you notice how ryan2754 went against everything he said about silents and then posted iliketrain on his suspect list for no reason at all? It's possible that he wasn't participating for the troll discussion either so ryan2754 and the last troll probably planned to bus him anyway - they can just take WCFmo's head for free by doing in the way they did.

Another point of view (and this isn't a strong observation but it is one nevertheless - consider it WIFOM if you choose) is when ryan2754 overreacted and became incredibly defensive. At that time, my suspect list was:

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
Medium: Zakman86, Gawain
Medium-Low: NONE
Low: ryan2754, fwybwed

---

If ryan2754 and iliketrain are trolls, then there is a good chance that the last troll is on that list. I don't think that a ryan2754 and a Zakman86/Gawain/fwybwed pairing would want to leave a player like iliketrain alone knowing that it would probably cost them the game. ryan2754's overreaction makes a lot of sense this way.

EDIT: The problem with this is that it doesn't have to be iliketrain - it could be another player who they don't feel comfortable leaving alone. I also forgot the who-know-what.

re: ryan, I don't know about over-reaction, I'll have to go back and read the posts. What I have been picking up on, however, is a sense of cockiness from ryan's posts. It's almost like he's saying "come and get me". He even said it himself, the best part of the game is defending against weak arguments, and any argument can be weak depending on which way you spin it.

I'm going to hold off on posting my suspect list until the NK and until I've had a chance to re-read the thread.

quote:

---

Originally posted by OGB:
iliketrain was replaced because he wasn't posting and wasn't voting - JoshSherman said as much in his announcement that the last vote was extended by a day.

---

Hold that thought. Look at this closely for the extension reasoning.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoshSherman:
Deadline extended 24 hours. I'll write the reason into the story tomorrow.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoshSherman:
Bernek77 appeared out of nowhere... so I can't check IP addresses anymore. I am voting for WCFmo.

---

We do NOT know the reason iliketrain was replaced in the fashion that he was. We only know that Bernek was allowed to make a vote in his place and his vote was terrible for the MOTLers.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoshSherman:
Deadline extended 24 hours. I'll write the reason into the story tomorrow.

You may switch your vote should you choose to do so. Or don't. I'll use your current vote if you don't change it.

@iliketrain: if you do not cast a vote, you will be replaced. While I can appreciate that you are on a learning curve, you still have to participate.

---

My 1st game with him(WCFmo) when Bernek him and myself were mafia, he had some moments that were sheer brilliance. I feel his play has stepped up since then and now seeing him as a villager, take his posts a little more seriously.
That being said, I am now gonna look into Zakman's posts and see what I can take from them.

~MM

__________________
I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion and 2007 Captain N award winner.

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
and tell me where I stated that B77s lynch vote was a scrye vote...I sed "SUSPICION"...

Save me from????..been lynched...really...dont you think B77 is playing off is original role as mod...and continued with his suspicion...that would make more sense to me then to try and save anyone whom he has no insight to their origins.. to me that is far fetched...

---

Fwy, here you are CLEARLY insinuating that you think Bernek voted based on his previous knowledge, AFTER THE FACT that Josh revealed that N0 thing is null and void as the person is dead. Thus, he is NOT playing his lead as mod, because Josh said so.

Fwy, what I am trying to say is this: 3 people has 2 votes each when Bernek made his choice. If one of those 3 is a wolf, he wouldn't vote that way, a majority of the time. Thus, he voted the way he voted because he was trying to save a fellow wolf. Again, this is completely dependant on Bernek being a troll, but it is worth noting seeing as he gave absolutely no reason behind his vote.

Man would I love to see the zombie club for this game.

It is surprising to see Bernek not talking at all, too.

dak, you are being dense. Why in the hell would I do vote analysis BEFORE the NK? This would give the trolls something to use. I am not giving them anything like concrete vote analysis so they can manipulate the masses with before they make a NK. Of course they are going to leave me alive: already like 4 of you have had suspicions of me BEFORE a NK has even occurred. This is getting ridiculous.

Also, I don't understand how Bernek's vote is a "sacrifice" - Option 2 in your reasoning behind the tie. Do you mean B77 is sacrificing himself (breaking the tie to lynch a cit) to save a member that may have died? So are you saying if B77 is a troll, you think either fwy or Trand is a troll? I understand your logic, but I doubt a wolf would necessarily do this, because if they get subsequently lynched, it really isn't a sacrifice at all because now we might find a mafia member in the two people who had 2 votes that round, leading to 2 dead trolls. Bad move. If bernek were a troll, IMO, and a mafia member was within the three tied, I would case a random vote to not mess with the tie. Again, this is implying one of the three people with 2 votes was a troll, which isn't necessarily true but statistically likely.

Surprise, OGB pops out of the woodwork in the last couple rounds to stir the masses.

Dak, how did I ever go against everything I said about silents? 3 of the 4 suspects in that post are relatively silent. I don't understand this - there is a CLEAR reason for ILT in my suspect list - SILENCE. It can't be more obvious.

dak, what do you mean by "I don't think that a ryan2754 and a Zakman86/Gawain/fwybwed pairing would want to leave a player like iliketrain alone knowing that it would probably cost them the game." I don't understand what you are getting at.

OGB, sure there might be a little cockiness. I don't mean for it to come off like that, but I have a love/hate relationship with weak arguments against me - I love to tear them down, but hate when people latch on and stick to them. See Mafia VII between Xpr and nder/me, and you'll see what I mean. I have played in the upwards of 30 games and nothing irks me more than people who latch onto weak arguments - thus, my natural inclination is to destroy them. And no, arguments can be strong despite trying to spin them. If I see a compelling argument against me, sure I'll still try and defend myself against it, but all I have seen as arguments against me is this:
1.) Random votes (which again aren't "random," I place my vote as I see fit
2.) Oversensitivity (I like debunking bad arguments)
3.) People twisting my actions, like dakrum saying I put ILT out of context into my suspect list despite 3 of 4 of my suspects being relative "silents." Still don't see how I "go away from silents."

So MM, just joining the bandwagon. How am I exactly suspicious, in your eyes?
Continue to vote off the talkative players based on weak arguments. Good strategy.

As of now, MM is still at the top of my suspect list. He continues to try and let my bandwagon ride, without giving accusations and reasons why I am suspicious. He says he has his reasons and is following WCFmo's lead, but nothing concrete.

Possible scum pairs (I know there are three, but trying to look at buddying, distancing, etc.): dakrum & MM, B77/ILT & Fwy OR Trand, hili/OGB (gut)

{SUSPECT: MM (no reasonings, just 'tentative' votes)}
{SUSPECT: OGB (interesting participation)}
{SUSPECT: fwy, dakrum (twisting my words)}
{SUSPECT: hili (replaces in but lacking in participation)}

Again, AFTER THE NK, vote analysis and re-read of thread are in order, looking specifically at dead guys' postings and player interactions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
dak, you are being dense. Why in the hell would I do vote analysis BEFORE the NK? This would give the trolls something to use. I am not giving them anything like concrete vote analysis so they can manipulate the masses with before they make a NK. Of course they are going to leave me alive: already like 4 of you have had suspicions of me BEFORE a NK has even occurred. This is getting ridiculous.

Also, I don't understand how Bernek's vote is a "sacrifice" - Option 2 in your reasoning behind the tie. Do you mean B77 is sacrificing himself (breaking the tie to lynch a cit) to save a member that may have died? So are you saying if B77 is a troll, you think either fwy or Trand is a troll? I understand your logic, but I doubt a wolf would necessarily do this, because if they get subsequently lynched, it really isn't a sacrifice at all because now we might find a mafia member in the two people who had 2 votes that round, leading to 2 dead trolls. Bad move. If bernek were a troll, IMO, and a mafia member was within the three tied, I would case a random vote to not mess with the tie. Again, this is implying one of the three people with 2 votes was a troll, which isn't necessarily true but statistically likely.

Dak, how did I ever go against everything I said about silents? 3 of the 4 suspects in that post are relatively silent. I don't understand this - there is a CLEAR reason for ILT in my suspect list - SILENCE. It can't be more obvious.

dak, what do you mean by "I don't think that a ryan2754 and a Zakman86/Gawain/fwybwed pairing would want to leave a player like iliketrain alone knowing that it would probably cost them the game." I don't understand what you are getting at.

---

This is the second time you've taken my arguments and twisted them around. Are you in denial?

The truth is this - you are still in the game to provide analysis and you have done very little of it. Actually, you've provided even less analysis and participated less than you did in Mafia VII when you were mafia and your analysis is leagues behind your Mafia VIII performance. There isn't a good reason to keep somebody who only posts something relevant when FORCED to post and whose suspect lists don't even have suspicion levels in them.

If you think that it will give the trolls something to use, then that's an acceptable reason. However, the fact that you know that you're going to survive the NK is the worrisome part. You should have been doing your best to BECOME a NK, not avoid becoming one.

Bernek's vote was either a sacrifice because the trolls didn't want the round to continue and give any more information that necessary or a very bad vote. It's as simple as that. Preventing a troll from going to the block is not as significant as preventing the tie because of the amount of raw data it provides (and the fact that trying to save a fellow troll is very dangerous). You should already know this - vote and pile analysis are your bread and butter and you shouldn't have had any problem getting more data to work with. (BTW, MAB_Rapper also had two votes against him but that's not too important here).

My worry about suspecting iliketrain is that you took your stance from round one where you didn't think that he could be a troll and then adding him to your suspect list without saying a word. It's true that I should have been more specific and for that I apologize - I am referring to your stance of the round one no vote players.

My last thought was pattern matching. Call it WIFOM if you must, but it's a psychological thought nevertheless.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
Remember that we don't know why iliketrain was replaced in the fashion that he was

---

QFT. You know what they say about the word assume...

Besides, you do know the reason. Bernek77 was both accounts the whole time. Duh!

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:

This is the second time you've taken my arguments and twisted them around. Are you in denial?

The truth is this - you are still in the game to provide analysis and you have done very little of it. Actually, you've provided even less analysis and participated less than you did in Mafia VII when you were mafia and your analysis is leagues behind your Mafia VIII performance. There isn't a good reason to keep somebody who only posts something relevant when FORCED to post and whose suspect lists don't even have suspicion levels in them.

If you think that it will give the trolls something to use, then that's an acceptable reason. However, the fact that you know that you're going to survive the NK is the worrisome part. You should have been doing your best to BECOME a NK, not avoid becoming one.

Bernek's vote was either a sacrifice because the trolls didn't want the round to continue and give any more information that necessary or a very bad vote. It's as simple as that. Preventing a troll from going to the block is not as significant as preventing the tie because of the amount of raw data it provides (and the fact that trying to save a fellow troll is very dangerous). You should already know this - vote and pile analysis are your bread and butter and you shouldn't have had any problem getting more data to work with. (BTW, MAB_Rapper also had two votes against him but that's not too important here).

My worry about suspecting iliketrain is that you took your stance from round one where you didn't think that he could be a troll and then adding him to your suspect list without saying a word. It's true that I should have been more specific and for that I apologize - I am referring to your stance of the round one no vote players.

My last thought was pattern matching. Call it WIFOM if you must, but it's a psychological thought nevertheless.

{SUMMARY: answers questions for ryan}

---

Paragraph 1.) How am I taking your arguments and twisting them around. You specifically said that I "went against everything I said about silents" and all of sudden throw ILT on my suspect list "for no reason at all." I explained there was a reason. I am not twisting your argument.

Paragraph 2.) I've done little analysis? Really? Compared to WHO, exactly? Your goddamn standards? What analysis has anyone outside of Gawain, yourself, and WCFmo done? Absolutely NOTHING. Sorry but that is a bigger deal than me not participating as much as I usually do, which is still more than the average individual. Have you ever heard of "when someone is mafia, they participate more?" Yeah, it happens all the time. Check almost any game and you'll see mafia the majority of the time post more than normal, except when able to hide in silence and not be called out.
So you are saying I am suspicious because I am participating less than usual than when I was mafia? is asanine. Wouldn't that boil down to me NOT playing like my normal mafia self? Oh but wait, apparently you are putting me on a pedestal because I am "doing little analysis" according to you. QUIT TUNNELING. It's getting pretty obvious, and ridiculous.
So I am more suspicious because my analysis has been sub-par this game COMPARED TO ME AS MAFIA? This argument is worse than the last one. So I am suspicious because I am PARTICIPATING, more than half the field, but MY participation is less than I normally give by your standards? PUHLEASE. You are basically admitting that I am suspicious because I am playing different compared to my MAFIA game. This is extremely laughable.

Paragraph 3.) WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD THE MAFIA KILL ME? It would be dumb. No one is listening to my suspects. EVERYONE and their mother is attacking me. Anyone who has a brain that works functionally could realize it would be stupid to NK me. It's not a FACT. I'm giving the mafia some credit in saying that they have a brain and are smart enough to not NK, seeing as everyone suspects me the longer I live, and that no one is listening to me. It's not that difficult to understand. HOW AM I AVOIDING BEING A NK? That would be GREAT for the cits, it really would. But again, any competent mafia would keep me around - it's that simple.

Paragraph 4.) Do you really think an additional couple days would have given "is a significant amount of raw data?" It really isn't, in the grand scheme of things, especially with the current level of discussion. I am not saying that it would provide SOME more information, but said information from extended votes usually doesn't yield as much as you think, from personal experience. As for MAB, he fits the bill then as possible mafia with Bernek, for the record.

Paragraph 5.) Suspicions EVOLVE. The more information comes out, you can change your suspicions. It's clear ILT was on my suspicion list to me for silence, sorry for my non clarity. I don't explain one of my suspects with clarity, yet others just make votes *cough cough* Trand, Bernek, etc. and you don't mention anything about them. Tunneling to the extreme.

Paragraph 6.) Fair enough.

We are tunneling, and I am done. Call it what you must, but if there are competent members in the audience, you will see the discrepancies in arguments against me and see that I have defended myself adequately.

Where are you Gawain? ha.

Leshrac, on the other hand, has an email in his inbox. Three words: "I'll be there."

Check your PMs IMMEDIATELY. Votes due Friday 9PM MOTL time

{SUMMARY: dakrum hacked, ThaPStulio returns!, votes due Friday 9PM MOTL time}

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
Ill be voting ryan....

---

Really fwy? That hack reaks epicly of a setup. Are you calling the double bluff here?

The Ryan v Dakrum thing was probably two citizens bashing heads. MM has run a ton of games, and has sat behind the scenes watching this sort of thing happen a ton of times. You'd think he would notice that happening. Neither of them have a case against the other that's very compelling, just arguing. The hack reaks of setup as I said, and almost confirms that the whole argument was between two board members, and neither of them were trolls.

That's my take on the whole thing regarding MeddlingMage. It seems to me that big arguments between two citizens are pretty common in these games, and there's no reason for the trolls/mafia/wolves to try and misdirect anything. They can just pop down some Pringles and watch.

A couple of minor things. Ryan if you can, stop juggling the terms around. Your last post we had like citizens, members, trolls, mafia and wolves all over the place. It's not that I'm picking on you, just gets confusing for me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hili:
The Ryan v Dakrum thing was probably two citizens bashing heads. MM has run a ton of games, and has sat behind the scenes watching this sort of thing happen a ton of times. You'd think he would notice that happening. Neither of them have a case against the other that's very compelling, just arguing. The hack reaks of setup as I said, and almost confirms that the whole argument was between two board members, and neither of them were trolls.

---

So they could be 2 MOTLers bashing heads and ryan comes out on top. hmmmm

What about me Hil...I was on Dak for his crappy play of self voting

I had these 3: Gawain, Dakrum, and WCF on my supect list 2 of them are MOTLer's....

as I stated before one reason as a cit that you may still be alive is that all or some of your suspects would be wrong....

its funny to me how you are coming out right about now....

is my vote for ryan a double bluff???? how do you see it that way from just that one line???

and what is the double bluff...?

I never stated you were dumb at all ryan, in fact you are a smart player...you came under a huge suspicion cloud last round from Dak...what you did here is try to play the "why would I do that" game.....NICE!!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:

is my vote for ryan a double bluff???? how do you see it that way from just that one line???

---

No that's not what I meant. What I was getting at was that hacking dakrum was the super obvious play to set up ryan. I was asking you if you think ryan did that as a double bluff situation. So we would go "that's a set up", and thus take heat off of ryan.

And Ryan, you are right that it is looks like a dumb move on your part if you were a troll. I know from making the same mistake myself in the past. However, you have to remember that people know this and you could easily use it to your advantage if most would look at it as a frame up (i.e. the double bluff). Not saying you did, just stating that you could.

{Voting for now: Tranderas}

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - Three Years Running for 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My Nationals)

Co-Founder of Long Island's Newest Vintage Team - Team of Towers

quote:

---

Originally posted by hilikuS:
Not to throw too many suspicions out here, but I'm kind of suspicious of Tranderas as well. I haven't seen him play in this game before, or if I did, I don't remember, but usually he's always got something to say. He hasn't said much since I started playing except a short post just to post.

Does anyone know Trand's play history, and experience level? If he has played before, and has a concept of the metagame, his behavior might come off as suspicious. Basically, if he knows the drills, his posting just to post could be a troll ploy (staying active but under the radar). Otherwise it could go either way IMO.

---

Liq answered this earlier in the thread:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liq:
Tranderas played in the UBB Mafia 20-25 over 3 years ago. Left due to RL issues. Came back for WW3.

BoT began playing UBB Mafia about 18-20. On again, off again type player. WW8, WW10, Mafia 1, Mafia 4, Mafia 7.

Mafia Games
Werewolf Games

---

I played in like, 2-3 games, over two years ago. I quit playing because it was interfering with my schoolwork, and then again because I didn't really like the game.

I also addressed the issue in a post on page 9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tranderas:
I don't have anything to hide. I'm around, I just don't really have more to add, and am interested in seeing how the WCFmo - Ryan fight resolves. I'm relatively new to the game, having only played a couple rounds years ago, so I am incapable of making the same sort of deductions that, say, you or Zak can make. My only option is to see what happens with the arguments that go on.

That said, I think it's odd that WCFmo continues to react to Ryan the way he does. Don't take it so personally, man. It's just a game...

{SUMMARY: Calm down, man.}

---

I wasn't entirely sure what was going on, so I was content to let WCFmo and Ryan fight to see what came out of it.

I still continue to be troubled by fwy's play. That was a clear frame-up to try to get Ryan hanged, which only adds to how troubling fwy is to me. That is where my vote is going.

Onto vote analysis.

Player - Vote (revealed alignment, if any) [Order]
BOT/hili - Tranderas[2], Tranderas[2], Gawain[9]
Tranderas - NO VOTE, Jaz/Liq(MOTL)[4], fwy[2]
WCFmo (MOTL) - Gawain[10], Tranderas[7-declared for Vol], Zakman[5]
fwy - Bernek (MOD)[6], Zakman[12], WCFmo(MOTL)[1]
MM - fwy[7], WCFmo(MOTL)[10], WCFmo(MOTL)[10]
dakrum (MOTL) - Gawain[9], Zakman[11-declares vote for self], MAB[7]
ryan2754 - Bernek77(MOD)[4], Jaz(MOTL)[9], MM[6]
Volcanon (MOTL) - NO VOTE, NO VOTE[1-Declared for Bernek, then Trand], N/A
coolio (MOTL) - bernek77(MOD)[11], N/A, N/A
iliketrain/Bernek - NO VOTE, Gawain[13], WCFmo(MOTL)[11]
MAB_Rapper - BoT/hili[12], Volcanon(MOTL)[5], Tranderas[8]
Bernek77 (mod) - WCFmo(MOTL)[13], N/A, N/A
OGB - dakrum (MOTL)[3], Volcanon(MOTL)[6], MAB[4]
Jazaray/Liq (MOTL) - coolio(MOTL)[1], Volcanon(MOTL), N/A
Zakman86 - Tranderas[5], Tranderas[3], Tranderas[12]
Gawain - MAB_Rapper[8], Volcanon (MOTL)[8], fwy[3]

Things I've noticed on re-read:
1.) Bernek very active early when he was mod. Not so much since he has replaced. Weird.
2.) Isn't Gawain one to throw a vote within the leading bandwagons? Interesting he keeps a random vote in Round 1.
3.) Mab saying "Oh woe is me, we lost Mod"
4.) MM brings up my junichi/coolio thing, with not analysis.
5.) Fwy's, MM's, and ILT's votes are intriguing. All slightly suspicious.
6.) Bot/hili's vote are interesting, because all of them are fairly low key. Just a trend I noticed. Mab's have also been very low key.
7.) Zakman for Trand all three rounds.
8.) Bad track record for a few people - myself, fwy, and OGB.

I was already suspicious of both MM and ILT for previous posted reasons, so they stay at the top of suspicion.
Suspect slightly both MAB and hili and fwy.

I have some thinking to do about my vote.

quote:

---

"I know you're a troll. Why don't you save us some time and get the hell out of here?"

"That's not likely. I'm no troll. You know me, Josh. Why would you say that?"

"Last chance. When I'm done, avendor will look like BoltBait compared to you."

"You don't want to do this. You have no idea what you're getting yourself into. Don't make me-"

"Don't make you what? Cry like a baby? Run back to Sally with your tail between your legs? You're going to be lucky if that's all that happens to you."

"Listen to yourself. You think you can come back here and threaten me with... with what, exactly? Do you have any idea how absurd you're making yourself look? What are you going to do to me? You're acting like this is some sort of ****ing apocalypse or something... get ahold of yourself, dickhead."

"We've chatted long enough. Now I have what I need, and you have DEATHBOMB!"

---

Deathbomb is a vicious program designed to randomly change all its recipient's stored passwords to random 23 character passwords. In addition, it rewrites itself into all mP3, doc, and exe files on the computer it infects. It also hijacks your browsers to send you to MTG Salvation regardless of the address you type or link you click. Salvation NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo! indeed.

Remember kiddies, when in doubt, always go with the Deathbomb. It's classy, and you always win. There can be no comeback.

Unfortunately, this course of action led to ThaPStulio being immediately banned. Otherwise, this tiff could have become public and he would have been hacked anyway. He was using Ryan2754's account.

NO MORE POSTS IN THIS THREAD PLEASE. I AM STARTING A NEW ONE

{SUMMARY: ThaPStulio targets the Admin, Ryan2754 banned, starting a new thread}