quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
dakrum - Holds suspect off. Then goes after Gawain. Was that your original suspect dakrum that you held off talking about? At the very least, he is trying to scumhunt. +1. Why did you pick out Jaz/ryan/coolio/MAB for asking for thoughts? Again, just a question I'd like answered. Possible subtle buddying with WCFmo midway through page 4.

---

To answer your questions:

1). Yes, Gawain was my initial suspect. It was only one post at the time, so I wanted to wait to see if he posted anything else suspicious or not first so I could get a better read.

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCFmo:
Also, just to make sure, Josh - did Bernek get to check the account status of a player during R0?

---

Yes, he did. Give me a dollar and I'll consider telling you who it was. Then, after considering, I'll take my dollar and run

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
{SUSPECT: fwy (weird posts, no reasoning), MM (IIoA), coolio (need more from you, plus explanation of votes), gawain (hiding behind stats, some good logic from dakrum)}

---

1. {TAGNAME: A}
2. {TAGNAME: A (reason)}
3. {TAGNAME: A,B,C}
4. {TAGNAME: A,B,C (all for this reason)}

I appreciate that five of you are using tags, it makes my job of tracking the game for Josh a little easier. Please format your tags as I described above and in my earlier post:

046. Apr-08 07:13 AM: PlasteredDragon - I am tracking for Josh. Use tags. You still need to PM votes to JoshSherman. Thanks.

To the other 11 of you who aren't using tags, please use them, it's not hard at all, and standardized language helps not only me but all the people who are playing understand you.

"I'm thinking that maybe since player X had that really odd post that player Y should have reacted more strongly to it, and I can't believe that player Z didn't call player Y out on it so I think my vote is probably going to him."

Becomes hella clearer if you add this to the end:

"{SUSPECT: X (odd post)}
{SUSPECT: Y (no reaction to X's post)}
{VOTING: Z (didn't call out Y)}"

It takes mere seconds to add tags to your posts, please do so. For you it's tagging one post, for me it's deciphering 20 posts that don't have tags.

Thanks.

Spent the last hour or so playing catch up, fun times.

@Dakrum/WCFmo/Ryan: Let me try to explain why I went with the random vote this round. For starters, it's not my first time doing so. I voted Fwyb last game, but the game before was also a random vote. I regretted voting for Fwyb last game, as he obviously turned out to be a Cit and in retrospect, my reason for jumping on that wagon in the first place was not that sound. I just feel that in general people try to make too much of the first round and it almost always ends up being bad for the town. Nailing Zak in the first round a few games ago was definitely the exception and not the rule. And this particular R1 was a doozy; if R1 is typically sparse in terms of useful information, then the damned cupboard was picked bare for this game. I frankly just had zilch to go on, and figured chance was a safer and more reliable bet than a judgment call based on nothing. Hell, for all the info we had my vote may as well have been random anyway had I chosen a "suspect."

Further, I can't really see how my posts are IIoA, when there is very little information to either analyze or offer. I suppose it is what it is though. Also, I believe I counted three potential votes against WCFmo and two with a possible third when I made the comment about "wagons forming," and I would say that 3 votes on a player in R1 constitutes at least the beginnings of a wagon. Which, I might add, was something I did NOT want to see happen, again because of the pointless pile on Fwyb R1 last game.

TBH, I think it's a fair bet that there is a Troll amongst the three of you somewhere. The brief interchange between Dakrum and WCFmo felt like buddying to me, and the noncommittal manner in which Ryan agrees with Dakrum's suspicion strikes me as a bit odd too.

So the Bernek pile was Fwyb, ryan, and Coolio. I think it's a fair bet that there is a wolf in this pile as well. Can't get much of a read on Fwyb ATM, and Coolio isn't saying much (though still got a vote in?), but Ryan both voted for Bernek and was the last of the three to chime in regarding suspicion of me. Currently my only real suspect, though I'd like to hear more from Coolio, MM, and the rest of the not-so-talkative folk.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan:

MeddlingMage - IIoA. Follows fwy's vote of Bernek with a "random vote" on fwy. Could take this two ways: actual random vote, or acting as if a random vote and actually voting for a real reason (could be trying to pass it as a real vote, seeing as fwy voted without reason). MM can you clarify?

---

Sure I can clarify for you. I used the Jazaray method. My daughter was over my shoulder reading and I asked her to pick a name at random. Take that as you want.

OK, so, Bernek was a good guy. He voted for WCFmo. Now he would have had 1 look before he died. Just saying.

I don't think that he would have looked at him 1st though, but at this stage of the game, (being early, I mean) it may be worth it.

However...

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCFmo:
Also, just to make sure, Josh - did Bernek get to check the account status of a player during R0?

---

Is he worried here, b/c Bernek was onto him? At first 1 random player accusing another is no big deal. But then that player is found out to be a role player? Hmmm...

Now, the obligatory, pile analysis.(Also done by Gawain)

~The Bernek vote pile~
1. fwybwed
2. ryan2754
3. coolio

~But also, the no vote pile~
1. Tranderas
2. Volcanon
3. iliketrain

These 2 piles have been already done, but I feel the need to list them again as a visual aid for me, as well as typing them so I can recall it, if that makes any sense.

Alright, well I don't wanna clutter up too much space until after the next victim is hacked.

{Summary: Answer ryan's question,making heads or tails}
{Suspect: WFCmo}

~MM

__________________
I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion and 2007 Captain N award winner.

So let me get this straight Gawain.

How am I being noncommittal about dakrum's arguments? I feel as though some of his arguments make sense. Would you like to know which one's I agree with?

Again, so you are voting me for random voting Bernek? Is this correct? If so, I've already said my speil on how I think that is a terrible thing to do.

So because I am the only one of fwy, me, and coolio that you can get a read on, I'm the suspicious one of the three? Makes sense again...not.

And you also are suspecting me for being suspicious of you. Not to mention I had a lot of suspects. Your OMGUS is awful.

{SUMMARY: Absolutely terrible logic by Gawain on all accounts; however, not letting is cloud my judgment}

I would assume he doesnt know you are one of the better players in this forum....maybe he spends to much time over Salvation....????

but that leaves me with a question on how long will the trolls leave you in this game...to have you lynched

creating suspicion on you cuz ....wellllll. U are U!!!! ya think...

OR

You are a troll.

my thoughts....

As for B77 and my vote well his role as mod was PMed to him....as per Josh... his excuse for lack of involvement was weak. From what I read on Friday he stated "other day" then stated he last checked in on MONDAY....to me thats not the "other day" I found that very odd.

hence:

my "Hmmmm"

so.. apparently.. i need to catch up.. and re-read the previous 5 pages... as for explanation of votes.. geez.. cant rd 1 just be random? or... perhaps it's an assessment of the players within the game, and a gambit of the most likely player to possibly be suspected, and thus voted off? or perhaps even the one that ppl just might gun for anyhow.. asides from myself... obv i'm not gonna vote for myself to get booted.. that'd be awkward..

{Summary: I need to play catchup, ranting on my reasoning for rd 1 vote}

{Suspects: myself.. this is a temp place holder :razz:}

©

__________________
Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong.
-Christopher Hitchens

I find your logic about being suspicious of a player who voted for Bernek to be very strange - especially since ryan had already addressed it before your post (and long before the "hour" you spent catching up with the thread I might add).

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
As for B77 and my vote well his role as mod was PMed to him....as per Josh... his excuse for lack of involvement was weak. From what I read on Friday he stated "other day" then stated he last checked in on MONDAY....to me thats not the "other day" I found that very odd.

---

That logic is very weak and very suspicious. There is no reason that anyone should know what Bernek's role is before he was lynched (and thus, no reason for us to know that he received a PM). IMHO, four days ago counts as the "other day" too - the rounds were short and the game started on Wednesday (because again, we should have no idea that Bernek is the mod at this point).

This sounds like a convenient excuse to place a vote on somebody that could have a positive role.

quote:

---

Originally posted by coolio:
as for explanation of votes.. geez.. cant rd 1 just be random? or... perhaps it's an assessment of the players within the game, and a gambit of the most likely player to possibly be suspected, and thus voted off?

---

@coolio/MAB - Do you realize what your votes actually did since you didn't post what they were? In the case of coolio, I'm not referring to getting Bernek lynched or the fact that he was the moderator - I'm referring to something else. By not telling anybody who your votes were for, you might have cost the villagers something very valuable. To be fair, I didn't know about WCFmo's vote change either so feel free to interpret that however it is necessary.

To everybody else, please let them figure this out on their own. Go back and read the rules.

Edit: no summary tag - bad.

quote:

---

Originally posted by coolio:
"*yawns*

so.. apparently.. i need to catch up.. and re-read the previous 5 pages..." strange... I'm a true dealer... yet for some reason... I feel like trading a Black Lotus for 40 Eye of Ugin and 4 foil eyes. What is going on here? Onh. no. It can't be... sss... SALVATION!

---

"Not you, too, coolio..." Leshrac was saddened that he had to ban his friend and former moderator. At the same time, he wondered if coolio knew the Leshrac had considered banning coolio once or twice before he was hacked. Flaming people back to the stone age is an art, but one where the proverbial line can easily be crossed.

In the back of his mind, Leshrac reminisced about ThaPStulio. He was just as good at it as coolio, but no one has seen or heard from him in years. Even those who were his closest friends say he dropped off the face of the Earth. Maybe he was the one who could save MOTL from Salvation... "No, he won't come back" Leshrac resigned.

Votes are due Tuesday, April 13 by 9PM MOTL TIME
Only votes PMed to me by that time will be counted. But use tags anyway

The whole story is and will be fabricated by me and has nothing to do with anything, including gameplay. In fact, I took a picture of how hard I work on this game.

{SUMMARY: coolio hacked, votes due 4/13 9PM MOTL, I'm awesome}

quote:

---

Originally posted by coolio:
cant rd 1 just be random? or...

---

Re: This - I find this post odd. Has anyone ever known coolio to play in a UBB game before. The second part that I find odd about it is that it's too...nice. I've seen him post elsewhere and this just doesn't remind me of his style.

@ Darkrum - Actually I was trying to get a 3-way tie up there b/w Tranderas, Bernek, and Gawain. So that it forced people to actually state their reasons, etc. I thought I had counted it based on what people were actually saying, but I'm pretty sure coolio's vote messed that up. I meant to put that I was changing my vote to Gawain, but the beer reminded me not to (I had posted that I agreed with you, but didn't post I was PM'ing my vote to Josh for Gaw).

Re: Suspicions of FWY - I think it is a misstatement to say that he had no reason to vote for B77, I could tell why he was voting for him, the reason I am suspicious of him was due to his back and forth b/w bernek that precipitated his vote.

@ Ryan - I noticed you missed a couple of people in your post, why is that? Or are you not suspicious of those remaining players?

@ Gaw - Who is buddying who? You never posted your change of views on the UBB thread or on the WW thread, what gives? Seems like a swift change to me...

@ MM - Maybe you should read the paragraph above the one you posted? :P Also, you need a third pile title random...all of the R1 wolves last game were in the random pile.

Also, I would like to note, we still don't have a NK yet...which is odd, considering the amount of people who have posted so far. Could be our doc is holding us up, or it could be that the trolls are holding us up. Without actually going back to check, I don't really recall seeing much from the following people - Battle_of_Twits, iliketrain, Jazaray, zakman86. I apologize if I'm incidentally calling out our doc, but one of those people is the wolf leader IMHO. Out of those, zak hasn't really been posting much (much as he did when him, mystic and XPR were mafia), that'd be my guess as of now.

Also, volcannon had time to post in http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/016890.html and http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/024288.html but had no time to explain his weird vote? Calling shenanigans on that, and I'm not gonna let it die like I did with Monty last game. If volcannon is a Troll, look for people who mention his post early on (MAB & OGB) for one of his accomplices.

{SUMMARY: Discusses VOL, FWY, Coolio, Troll leader}

This is why I should always refresh before I post something, my analysis still stands though.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoshSherman:
In the back of his mind, Leshrac reminisced about ThaPStulio. He was just as good at it as coolio, but no one has seen or heard from him in years. Even those who were his closest friends say he dropped off the face of the Earth. Maybe he was the one who could save MOTL from Salvation... "No, he won't come back" Leshrac resigned.

---

Am I allowed to ask for more clarification on this?

@WCFmo - I'm not worried that he has a reason for voting off Bernek77, I just dislike his reason for voting off Bernek77.

I was also hoping that nobody would mention the "three-way tie" argument, but that is what I was going for (or "two-way tie" since I was hypothetically giving the benefit of the doubt to however your vot would be interpreted). It would have at least given us more information or to see if their mindsets were in the right place.

Edit - I really don't remember to put summary tags in my posts - this is the last time I'll edit a post because of it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoshSherman:
The whole story is and will be fabricated by me and has nothing to do with anything, including gameplay. In fact, I took a picture of how hard I work on this game.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCFmo:
Re: This - I find this post odd. Has anyone ever known coolio to play in a UBB game before. The second part that I find odd about it is that it's too...nice. I've seen him post elsewhere and this just doesn't remind me of his style.

@ Darkrum - Actually I was trying to get a 3-way tie up there b/w Tranderas, Bernek, and Gawain. So that it forced people to actually state their reasons, etc. I thought I had counted it based on what people were actually saying, but I'm pretty sure coolio's vote messed that up. I meant to put that I was changing my vote to Gawain, but the beer reminded me not to (I had posted that I agreed with you, but didn't post I was PM'ing my vote to Josh for Gaw).

Re: Suspicions of FWY - I think it is a misstatement to say that he had no reason to vote for B77, I could tell why he was voting for him, the reason I am suspicious of him was due to his back and forth b/w bernek that precipitated his vote.

@ Ryan - I noticed you missed a couple of people in your post, why is that? Or are you not suspicious of those remaining players?

@ Gaw - Who is buddying who? You never posted your change of views on the UBB thread or on the WW thread, what gives? Seems like a swift change to me...

@ MM - Maybe you should read the paragraph above the one you posted? :P Also, you need a third pile title random...all of the R1 wolves last game were in the random pile.

Also, I would like to note, we still don't have a NK yet...which is odd, considering the amount of people who have posted so far. Could be our doc is holding us up, or it could be that the trolls are holding us up. Without actually going back to check, I don't really recall seeing much from the following people - Battle_of_Twits, iliketrain, Jazaray, zakman86. I apologize if I'm incidentally calling out our doc, but one of those people is the wolf leader IMHO. Out of those, zak hasn't really been posting much (much as he did when him, mystic and XPR were mafia), that'd be my guess as of now.

Also, volcannon had time to post in http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/016890.html and http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/024288.html but had no time to explain his weird vote? Calling shenanigans on that, and I'm not gonna let it die like I did with Monty last game. If volcannon is a Troll, look for people who mention his post early on (MAB & OGB) for one of his accomplices.

{SUMMARY: Discusses VOL, FWY, Coolio, Troll leader}

---

THere's been no NK yet. No sense in me posting too much until we get to Day 2, that's just asking for trouble.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zakman86:
THere's been no NK yet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoshSherman:

{SUMMARY: coolio hacked, votes due 4/13 9PM MOTL, I'm awesome}

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCFmo:

@ Gaw - Who is buddying who? You never posted your change of views on the UBB thread or on the WW thread, what gives? Seems like a swift change to me...

---

I try to mix things up at least a little every game, and when it comes to experiments in playstyle, I tend not to announce them anywhere publicly, as that would obviously change the way in which people perceive my behavior. Like most other people who play this game I would imagine, I'm still trying to find a method or set of methods that work best for me, and the only way to do that is to try out new ideas.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
@Gawain - can you address my concern about using PD's logic to justify your random vote? You haven't addressed this yet.

---

It was one of a couple of reasons I decided to vote randomly R1, and frankly, I was more thinking out loud than offering up a concrete backing for why I voted the way I did. The way I interpreted what PD said at the end of last game was basically, "Even a completely random set of votes has a higher probability of netting Wolves than the current method/s." Once again, over the course of the last 3 games, I have voted randomly twice and purposefully once, and the one time that wasn't random netted a villager death, and a pretty pointless one at that. I just figured it was better to avoid the possibility of another useless R1 lynched based on essentially zero information.

As to calling Ryan out on the Bernek vote, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I completely missed that Ryan's vote for Bernek was random :/

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
Thanks MM and dakrum for clarifying.

So let me get this straight Gawain.

How am I being noncommittal about dakrum's arguments? I feel as though some of his arguments make sense. Would you like to know which one's I agree with?

Again, so you are voting me for random voting Bernek? Is this correct? If so, I've already said my speil on how I think that is a terrible thing to do.

So because I am the only one of fwy, me, and coolio that you can get a read on, I'm the suspicious one of the three? Makes sense again...not.

And you also are suspecting me for being suspicious of you. Not to mention I had a lot of suspects. Your OMGUS is awful.

{SUMMARY: Absolutely terrible logic by Gawain on all accounts; however, not letting is cloud my judgment}

EDIT: Tags

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCFmo:
@ Ryan - I noticed you missed a couple of people in your post, why is that? Or are you not suspicious of those remaining players?

---

Read my analysis post. If I say N/A, it's because they hadn't posted anything except a random vote post. The others, well they were under my assumption that if we are getting the NK in, and Trand, Volcanon, etc. were playing, it may be delayed. Big stretch, but just my opinion.

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCFmo:

{SUMMARY: Confused}

---

I didn't look at the post directly above yours when I posted. *shrug*

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
Holy ****balls batman...junichi and coolio? This is gonna be good...

---

Just wanted to put this out there.

~MM

__________________
I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion and 2007 Captain N award winner.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakrum:
Am I allowed to ask for more clarification on this?

---

There's nothing to clarify at the moment. If I need to clarify at a later time, I will

{Summary: no}

quote:

---

Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
Just wanted to put this out there.

~MM

---

Actually, I think it's a really good thing you pointed this out, MM.

Now I know everyone is gonna be dead set on me, but I think someone is definitely playing a cruel trick. Definitely gives a reason for the previous kills, and very intriguing. However, it comes back to the double bluff situation.

1.) Ryan did this on purpose.
2.) The trolls did this to frame me.
3.) Used this just to get us on a wild goose chase looking at the above two.
4.) Used this just to get us to think we are on a wild goose chase, and ignore the above two.

Now, I think it is a combination of 2 and 3. They did this, not only to possibly frame me, but to get us on a wild goose chase that ends in us looking way too far into it.

But for all those naysayers out there, I would like think myself fully capable of playing this sick joke where I sit there and go, "I'm going to use my old post, someone will pick it up, and I will play myself out of it." I have always tried to play difficult games as mafioso, which thror and Josh can attest to, so this isn't out of my range of capabilities. Some WIFOM, I would never kill junichi - he's fun to play with. So do I find myself capable of such a dirty rotten trick? Yes.

However, do I find other players fully capable of playing a dirty rotten trick on me? Yes. MM, MAB, and Jaz come to mind. I wouldn't put it past Zak or even Gawain to do it. Hell, MM pointing it out is sort of intriguing in the least.

Thus, I just wish people would start being more talkative. We are on page 5 on day 2 - that's pitiful. The less people talk, the mroe hard analysis that can occur. This is mainly the reason why I stopped playing - sure school sucks up my time, but I played hoping this game would be like the last game with over 2 threads. Don't think this one will reach it, and probably not going to play again.

{SUMMARY: proposes thoughts about MM's post}

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:

This is mainly the reason why I stopped playing - sure school sucks up my time, but I played hoping this game would be like the last game with over 2 threads. Don't think this one will reach it, and probably not going to play again.

---

Re: Underlined - I have no time (edit - for in depth analysis like last game), I've been working this weekend, which sucks FYI. I actually thought there wasn't much talking last game

Re: Going to quit - lame.

Also, I don't necessarily buy that Ryan would do this as a double bluff while calling us illogical. If he really thought we were illogical, wouldn't we just lynch him for something stupid like that? IDK. I don't think many players have done the double bluff in awhile, or at least that I picked up on.

Speaking of Jaz - where is she?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tranderas:
So someone made an off-hand comment about the game going on in #motl. This game really happened? Seriously?

I have some reading to do through the previous pages to see what's going on here.

---

MOTL's #1 troll failed to realize that this thread has been bumping for the past few days? Doubtful. Tranderas is still my vote.

__________________
Stages of Death: Anger, Denial, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance, Burial, Decay, Haunting, Revenge, Evil Laugh