posted November 13, 2000 12:37 AM         

To clear up some confusion which has possibly been caused by vission I am going to correct some of his statements.

1) There is only EVER one stack at a given time. Effects from different sources do NOT go on different stacks, else there would be no way to determine in which order things resolved.
Definition of the stack:
T.2 - Stack
T.2.1 - The stack is the core of the timing rules for Magic. It is called
a stack because each announced spell or ability is placed on top of the
pile, forming a stack. When they resolve or are countered, they are
removed from the stack. So the stack grows and shrinks over time.
[CompRules 99/04/23]
2)

quote:

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1. You sac'd your seal to kill another seal, therefore your opponent targeted your seal with a disenchant. ok, you targeted the seal, he targeted your seal, both effects resolve, therefore by him wasting the mana to cast the disenchant. there's 2 stacks, one on your seal, one on his. both resolve.

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The disenchant would not in fact resolve, or get cast in the first place. At the time you announce the sacrificing of the seal it is sacrificed as the cost. By the time your opponent responds, the seal is already gone. He could not even cast the disenchant w/intent to target your seal.

3) You were right about the mom question but not for the right reasons. Here's how it goes. a) You declare the mom effect and tap her, putting the pro:red ability on the stack. Let's assume you're targeting mom w/it. b) In response your opponent shocks your mom, which also goes on the stack. c) Both players yield priority and the stack begins to resolve. The 2 damage effect from the shock resolves doing 2 damage to mom. d) Priority is given and state based effects are checked. Mom has 2 lethal damage and only 1 toughness so she goes to the graveyard. e) The pro: red effect attempts to resolve, can't find mom, and fails. End of stack. Note that the pro: red effect still attempts to occur even after mom has left play.

Important rules in regards to the stack:

T.4.4 - When announcing an ability, put a "pseudospell" on the stack which
has a copy of the text and color of the permanent generating the ability.
[CompRules 99/04/23] This is like putting an invisible copy of the card
on the stack.

T.4.8 - The spell card is not in your hand after you start announcing it.
[D'Angelo 99/05/01]

T.4.Ruling.2 - Because of Rule T.4.4, destroying or modifying the source of
an ability after it is announced will not cause the ability to fail or
change in any way. [D'Angelo 98/02/03]

Finally, I see no reason for you to respond to questions that I, Caquaa, or Coolio have already answered. Doing so reduces the integrity of the thread, causes confusion, and creates clutter in what is supposed to be an organized and worthwhile post.

posted November 13, 2000 12:54 AM         

1) The dominate would cost you 4BB, because the CC of the Chimeric Idol card is 3.
2) Converted mana cost of Ghitu Fire is 1. Converted mana cost of a Llanowar Elite is 1.

This is because:

K.8 - Converted Mana Cost
K.8.1 - The converted mana cost is the amount of mana in the mana cost (see
Rule K.18) if you ignore the colors required. For example, a mana cost of
{3}{U}{U} results in a converted mana cost of {5}. [CompRules 99/04/23]

K.18 - Mana Cost
K.18.1 - The "mana cost" of a spell is the mana specified in the upper right
hand corner of the card. [CompRules 99/04/23]

K.18.Ruling.1 - The "mana cost" does not include any additional costs in the
card text, or any additional costs imposed by other cards. Those apply to
the "play cost" (see Rule K.20). [CompRules 99/04/23]

As a final note, the converted mana cost of x is 0.

Reinhart:

1) The way it works is this. a) Your opponent target's his steadfast guard with unsummon, putting that effect on the stack. b) In response, you target your opponent's Steadfast Guard with dominate so the dominate effect goes on the stack. c) Since at this point both players yield priority the stack begins to resolve. d) The dominate effect was put on last so it resolves and the steadfast gaurd comes under your control. e) Then the unsummon effect occurs and returns the steadfast gaurd it's owner's *not controller's* hand.
Exact same scenario with the stinging barrer. When the damage hits it puts the charisma effect on the stack which resolves before the unsummon.

2) You can cast the dominate on the treetop village after the "becoming a creature" ability resolves but not before then.

3) Dominate specifically states: Text(NE): Gain control of target creature with converted mana cost X or
less. (This spell's effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

You would retain control of the treetop village because:

K.5.4 - Changing a permanent's type changes its initial characteristics, not
its current ones. [CompRules 99/04/23] This means that changing its type
will not override effects that are on the permanent. [D'Angelo 99/05/01]

The dominate and/or charisma are both effects on the permanent.

4) Yes, that's perfectly legal.

posted November 13, 2000 01:06 AM         

So if you dominated a Treetop Village would it turn back into a land under your control then?

__________________
It's better to burn out than to fade away...
- ***Kurt Cobain***

posted November 13, 2000 05:33 AM            

©

posted November 13, 2000 01:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by guenhwyvar:
2) Converted mana cost of Ghitu Fire is 1.

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Just keeping you honest. I think you just forgot to mention that the X in the cc is part of the converted mana cost while on the stack

__________________

-Caquaa
caquaa@yahoo.com

posted November 13, 2000 07:21 PM            

and with wash out, can you chose colorless or lands or is there a way to get the lands into owner's hand?
thanx
demonsi@hotmail.com

posted November 13, 2000 08:07 PM            

G.19.3 - A player loses the game if they have less than 1 life. This is a state-based effect (see Rule T.11). [CompRules 99/04/23]

T.11.5 - The state-based effects are: [CompRules 99/11/01]
a) A player with zero or less life loses the game.

__________________
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep before the room went dark"
-Llanowar fable

posted November 14, 2000 04:42 PM            

lmk when you get a chance, maybe e-mail me w/ the conclusion, so I don't have to hunt for the answer. sorry if this question has been asked.

sincerely,

__________________
DragonSoul
"If you are breathing, consider yourself prey"

References:
GAB (Quartz Team)
Commander Langhoff

posted November 15, 2000 01:41 AM         

British Kavu: No. The wumpus' ability triggers for each point of damage. The first damage would go off, he'd take a point, as would you and everything else. He'd be at 0 life and die as a state-based effect.

DemonSI: Lands have no color. No, you can not call colorless w/Washout. Colorless is, by definition, not a color.

Maro1: Yes, the creature is still targeted.

Reinhart: Yes, you would pay 1UU to dominate the treetop village.

Dragonsoul: No, you can't do that. You can only discard to bloom if the cards are actually in your hand.

posted November 15, 2000 01:16 PM            

guenhwyvar: Usually 'U' is used to denote a blue mana, a 'B' is used to denote black (I know you know that, tis a common error to think blue so you type 'B', hehe. I do it too often too).

__________________

-Caquaa
caquaa@yahoo.com

posted November 17, 2000 09:36 PM            

if yes (added to CC): can i 'reduce' the kicker costs via the Medallions?