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Author Topic:   Need a Ruling?.. Come on in!.. Pt. 5 -> it just keeps going and going..
Trnothr
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posted December 20, 2000 12:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Trnothr   Click Here to Email Trnothr     
Hey, I was right with Desertion after all! Up your face, arguers!


Nyro
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posted December 20, 2000 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nyro   Click Here to Email Nyro     
I was playing in a game yesterday, and I had out a Tsabo Tavoc, its gold, red/black.
My opponent tried to Vendetta it, which targets non-black creature. Can he do that? I always thought it counted as black and/or red, but they told me it counted as gold. I was confused.
Another thing is my friend gave his Knight of Dawn protection from red, and attacked, and I couldn't black it with Darigaaz, I thought this was right but other people say he had to give it protection from red, green and black.
Thanks for your help, later
Joe

Please Email,

BlackStorm
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posted December 20, 2000 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlackStorm   Click Here to Email BlackStorm     
Nyro: No, he couldn't Vendetta your Tsabo Tavoc and you couldn't block with your Darigaaz, the Igniter.

K.7.4 - A card with more than one color in its mana cost is considered to be of all the colors shown. [CompRules 99/04/23] For example a card with the mana cost {2}{W}{B} is both white and black
K.7.Ruling.2 - Since a card with more than one color is considered to be all of the colors shown (see Rule K.7.4), Terror cannot affect a card which is both black and red. Terror cannot target a black card. And a Circle of Protection from either color could prevent damage from the spell or permanent. [D'Angelo 98/02/03]
K.7.Ruling.3 - Because of Rule K.7.4, spells and abilities that affect something "non-black" will not affect things which are even partly black. [D'Angelo 98/02/03]

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*Tedman*
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posted December 20, 2000 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for *Tedman*   Click Here to Email *Tedman*     
Let's say that I play Firestorm, discarding six cards. Do I need six targets (creatures or players) in order to do any damage? In the same case, can I discard 20 cards to kill a player? Thanks.

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GottaLoveElves
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posted December 20, 2000 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GottaLoveElves   Click Here to Email GottaLoveElves     
Are there any instant death combos that still work with Lich other than Mirror Universe?

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Gerrard
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posted December 20, 2000 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gerrard   Click Here to Email Gerrard     
Okay, I was just wondering if you would be able to win off of Coalition Victory w/
1x Sliver Queen
1x Savannah
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands

Don't ask me how to get the queen in play, I'm just curious if you could win like this.

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ManaBurn
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posted December 20, 2000 06:31 PM           
1) With all the current banned/restricted lists in consideration, can you use 4 Sol Rings in local FNM games? If so, in which blocks or types?

2) If you need to waste mana for Citadel of Pain purposes, can you play a spell that targets nothing?

3) Lets say a Lightbringer activates its ability to destroy a Nether Spirit, but in response, you return the spirit to your hand with an instant. Even though the Spirit is gone, the Lightbringer still has to sac itself, right?

4) When the opponent is finished with his or her turn and they say "go", can you use an ability, like tap to put a storage counter on Subterranean Hanger, at the end of your opponent's turn and then begin your turn and untap the hangar?

Thanks!
ManaBurn

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akolleth
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posted December 20, 2000 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for akolleth   Click Here to Email akolleth     
HI-- I'll throw in some help for Coolio with some answers.
Tedman-- Firestorm deals X damage to X targets, so yes you must have X targets. If you want to discard 20 cards to Firestorm , you must have 20 targets (each of which takes 20 damage)
Gerrard-- Yes that would win it for you. The duals count as both land types (it says so right on the card). Note this does not work with the pain lands or the new tapped duel lands.
Mana Burn-- 1. Nope sorry, the only format Sol Ring can be used in currently is type 1, and it is restricted to one copy. 2. No, if a spell has a targeted componant, you must have a legal target to cast it. 3. Yes, the lightbringer is sacced as a part of the payment of its ability, and sacrifices happen immediately, so Lightbringer ends up in your graveyard, and Nether Shadow in their hand. 4. Yes you have the opportunity to add to the stack at the cleanup phase of your opponents turn.

Hope this helped. --Adam, level 1 DCI Judge.


akolleth
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posted December 20, 2000 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for akolleth   Click Here to Email akolleth     
HI-- actually the reason I was going to post was for Coolio (or anyone else on the judges list) Its a bit of an inside joke, so don't spend too much time trying to figure it out.
So Coolio, what happens if I have 2 Opalescence, 3 Liches, 2 Dance of Many, and 3 Humility in my graveyard and cast Replenish? (Will that thread ever end on the list?) --Adam


caquaa
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posted December 20, 2000 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa   Click Here to Email caquaa     
akolleth: Don't answer questions unless you have coolio's permision.

BlackStorm: I am assuming that coolio gave you permision so I will let you answer the above few (you can go get the proof for the correct answers)
I will make sure that you get the correct answers, so don't worry about that.
(You can always e-mail me if you need help with anything on here)

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Donater
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posted December 21, 2000 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Donater   Click Here to Email Donater     
I was reading an article about slivers which said something about stack tricks with the acidic and the hibernation sliver.
How does this work?
Can you for instance sac a hibernation sliver with the ability of the acidic sliver, putting that on the stack and then returning the hibernation to your hand or something?
Or are there other options possible between those two, the other way around for instance, putting the return sliver to your hand on the stack.
I'm lost here.


Ertai4
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posted December 21, 2000 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ertai4   Click Here to Email Ertai4     
My Question is:
With Harrow could I search for a Dual Land because although they aren't Basic Lands it says on them they count as both type of lands which they produce? Any help would be appreciated

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BlackStorm
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posted December 21, 2000 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlackStorm   Click Here to Email BlackStorm     
*Tedman*: Yes, you do need the 6 targets. The current errata on Firestorm is this:

Text(WL+errata): As an additional cost to play ~this~, discard X cards from your hand. ~this~ deals X damage to each of X target creatures and/or players. [Oracle 99/07/01]
Cannot be cast for a value of X more than the number of legal (different) targets. [Duelist Magazine #19, Page 34] You cannot target the same thing more than once. [Fifth Rulebook, Page 37] See Rule G.39.2.

K.27.2 - If more than one 'X' is in the mana cost, both 'X's must have the same value. In fact, all 'X's on the card are considered to have the same value. [CompRules 99/04/23] For example, a spell that costs "{X}{X}{U}" to cast will cost "{4}{U}" if you choose for 'X' to be 2, and "{6}{U}" if you choose for 'X' to be 3.

GottaLoveElves: I'm not sure on that. I don't know all the cards in Magic yet. I would ask someone who has been playing a while or use Apprentice to find out.

Gerrard: Yes, you would win.

The errata on Coalition Victory is:
Text(IN): You win the game if you control a land of each basic land type and a creature of each color.

A land which is of multiple types or creature which is of multiple colors counts for each of its types and/or colors. [Invasion FAQ 00/10/03]

K.7.4 - A card with more than one color in its mana cost is considered to be of all the colors shown. [CompRules 99/04/23] For example a card with the mana cost {2}{W}{B} is both white and black

ManaBurn:
1)You can use it in Type 1 but it is restricted (you can only have 1 in your deck or sideboard), it is banned in 1.5, and you can use it in Extended (1.X).

2)No, you need to choose a target if it says so on the card.
G.39.1 - You may not announce a targeted spell or ability unless you can choose a legal target. [CompRules 99/04/23]

3)That would never happen because the Lightbringer's ability can only target something that is in play.

G.41.Ruling.5 - Valid targets only include things in play unless the spell or ability specifically says otherwise. [D'Angelo 99/02/22] For example, Unsummon can only work on a creature in play, while Raise Dead only works on a creature card in the graveyard

If you had the Lightbringer target the Nether Spirit when it is in play then it would work. And to answer your question, yes you would still have to sac the Lightbringer because you were using it's ability.

4)Yes, just say to them "At The End Of Your Turn" and then do it. Abilities can be played at any time. Tapping the Subterranean Hanger is the activation cost to put a storage counter on it.
T.1.5 - The ability of a permanent with an activation cost is played whenever you could play an instant unless otherwise stated on the card. The only exception is that any activated ability which generates mana is played as a mana ability. [CompRules 99/04/23]

caquaa: Yes, coolio gave me his permission to post here. I asked because I am going to become a DCI judge soon. I left a few questions for you to answer so I don't take all your fun.

Donater: I'm not that good about sliver question because I wasn't playing Magic when they came out. caquaa might know the answer.

Ertai4: Yes, you can search for a Dual Land but you can search for 2 Dual Lands if you wanted to.

G.9.1 - If a card "Counts as <-something->" then the card is in all ways a <-something->. For example, Wall of Spears is a Wall because it says "Counts as a wall" in its text. [CompRules 99/04/23]
G.9.2 - Counts as text applies no matter what zone (see Rule Z.1) the card is in. [CompRules 99/04/23]
G.9.3 - Counts as text is not considered an ability. [CompRules 99/04/23]


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[Edited 2 times, lastly by BlackStorm on December 21, 2000]


caquaa
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posted December 22, 2000 12:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa   Click Here to Email caquaa     
GottaLoveElves: We don't do research for you. If you find cards that you think might work together then you could ask us if they work together, but we will not go look for you.

Ertai4:
Actually these are the rules that apply to your question:
K.16.2 - Basic land types are: Forest, Island, Mountain, Plains, and Swamp. All other land types are not considered basic lands. [CompRules 99/04/23]

K.16.3 - Any land which is not a basic land is a nonbasic land. Even if its rules text or an effect state that it "counts as" a basic land type, it is still nonbasic. [CompRules 99/04/23]

You CAN NOT search for a dual land when the card says basic land. There are only five cards which are basic lands.

Donater:
G.33.1 - To sacrifice means to put a permanent from in play into its owner's graveyard. [CompRules 99/04/23]

G.33.2 - Sacrifices cannot be prevented by any means. [D'Angelo 98/02/03]

There is nothing you can do with those two together... either one ability or the other.

BlackStorm: Only one wrong. Not too bad. I think I have found me a new lackey... err umm... I mean person to answer questions on this post. Hehe.

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GottaLoveElves
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posted December 22, 2000 03:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GottaLoveElves   Click Here to Email GottaLoveElves     
Ok, sorry about that but let me elaborate a bit, there are a couple I would like to know: Donate. And also, how would Yawgmoth's Bargain work with it? Like would u draw then take a card from your library to ur graveyard or...?? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Also, is Urza's Armor cumulative?

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by GottaLoveElves on December 22, 2000]


Imagenyuss
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posted December 22, 2000 06:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Imagenyuss   Click Here to Email Imagenyuss     
ok, I have an untapped gardion beast, and alot of artifacts, and then someone plays an energy flux. the new energy flux says that i would be sacrificeing the artifacts but the older energy flux (from antiquitis) says that energy flux is destroying them.


lots of confusion...
i know if they're being destroyed they'll (the artifacts) will be all right but will they die if i have to sacrifice them?

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akolleth
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posted December 22, 2000 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for akolleth   Click Here to Email akolleth     
Well that was rather rude Caquaa. I was just trying to help, and it's not like these answers are coming form left field here. I have been a certified judge for almost 4 years now. But I would like to apologize to Coolio (and only Coolio) if I overstepped the boundries of protocol. --Adam


daddyj
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posted December 22, 2000 12:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for daddyj   Click Here to Email daddyj     
The guys in Arena are always trying to get me with this one. They say that once they have declared attackers (i.e. I am attacking with this and this and this) it is too late to tap an attacker with Benalish Trapper. They always say, "I am beginning my attack phase", and supposedly this is the last chance to tap creatures before they attack. I say that after attackers are declared, fast effects can be pushed on the stack, including ones that render their creatures unavailable to attacking, like creature removal and tapping. Can someone point me to some "official rules" that covers this, so I can pull them out of my pocket at arena? Please hurry! I have arena tonight. Thanks


HamsterDeFuego
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posted December 22, 2000 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for HamsterDeFuego   Click Here to Email HamsterDeFuego     
I'd say I would have to disagree with Blackstorm, unless I have mistaken, Dual lands count as basic lands when used with cards like harrow/land grant/tithe.. this does not mean you may use over 4 tropicals etc, but this means that when a card asks for a forest card, or a basic land card, you may search for a dual land. please correct me if im wrong, and preferably coolio..

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Thrash Golem
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posted December 22, 2000 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thrash Golem   Click Here to Email Thrash Golem     
2 Questions:

If my friend desertions my phyrexian processor, do I or him have to pay any amount of life?


Also, If I parallax wave a Krakilin, what does it do when it comes back into play?

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black mage
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posted December 22, 2000 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for black mage   Click Here to Email black mage     
okay this is kind of a wacked out question but okay
I have a necropotense in play as well as goblin war buggy during his turn he plays truce i take the 4 life from the truce then acactivate my necropotence i dont get the cards untill my next dicard phase now he plays a shahrazad DO I GET THE CARDS IN THE SUBGAME and when do i pay the cost for echo from the war buggy


guenhwyvar
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posted December 22, 2000 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for guenhwyvar     
Imagenyuss:
Energy Flux:
Info: Color=Blue Type=Enchantment Cost=2U AQ(U3)/R45(U1)/MM(U1)
Text(MM+errata): All artifacts have "At the beginning of your upkeep,
sacrifice this artifact unless you pay {2}.". [Oracle 99/11/01]

Since it's a sacrifice, you're Guardian beast doesn't protect them from sacrificing.

Daddyj:

C.1.7 - Once a creature is declared as an attacker or blocker, tapping or
untapping the creature will not remove it from combat or prevent it from
dealing combat damage. [CompRules 99/04/23]

You're last chance to tap the creature is when they declare they're attack for the turn.

HamsterDeFuego:

Caquaa is right about the dual land/harrow question. Some of us, Caquaa most of all, put a lot of time into trying to give people the right answers to their questions, and you don't get much more correct then the actual rules handed down from WOTC.
What more could you possibly want than a direct quote from the rules? Or are you just upset because this interpreation isn't as powerful for you? Tithe, for example, DOES get any "plains" even such things as Tundra. This is because the card does not say search for a BASIC LAND. It says search for a plains. A forest is a basic land card, a plains is a basic land card, but savannah is NOT a basic land card. There's a huge difference between something that counts as a "basic land TYPE" and something that is a "basic land".

Thrash Golem:

1)
Desertion: . . . The card enters play as if just cast and you get to make all necessary
decisions from scratch. [Duelist Magazine #17, Page 28] . . .

So you would have to pay the life.

2) Sorry, 1 dead Krakilin.

Krakilin:
Info: Color=Green Type=Creature - Beast Cost=XGG TE(U1)
Text(TE): 0/0. ; ~this~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it. ;
{1}{G}: Regenerate ~this~.
If put into play by any means other than casting it, then it enters play
with X=0. [D'Angelo 97/11/28]


Black mage:

Nothing from the main game affects the sub-game. The Necropotence cards would still be waiting for you when you got back to the main game, as would the echo payment.


caquaa
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posted December 22, 2000 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa   Click Here to Email caquaa     
GottaLoveElves: Thank you for ansking a more specific question

If you donate the lich to your opponent then you are at zero life and die imidiatley (state bsed effect is you having zero life).

Bargain requires a payment of life. With lich in play you have no life to pay so that doesn't work

Urza's Armor is cumulative, that is why it has such a high cc.

Imagenyuss: You always go by the newest wording of a card. If you go to crystalkeep you can find the newest wording for the cards. One of the ruling for guardian beast:
Does not prevent sacrifices. A sacrifice does not count as a "destroy". [D'Angelo 00/02/15]
Wording ofr energy flux:
Text(MM+errata): All artifacts have "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice this artifact unless you pay {2}.". [Oracle 99/11/01]

The artifacts will die unless you pay the two.

akolleth: Rude? I don't think I was rude. Coolio has asked that only people which he has given permision to post answers here to avoid confusion. I have stated this many times on these posts. If you want to post, you have to ask coolio.

daddyj: You can go here to see the complete rules. Go to the "C" section for combat rules. Basically ou have to tap the creature before they declare whihc ones are attacking. However, if they do not give you opportunity to do this, then you have to back up and you can tap ones they declared as attackers. However, the way you described it,they know what they are talking about.

HamsterDeFuego: I corrected him if you would read all of the posts. Many people make this mistake with dual lands... that is to be expected. I posted the rule which would prove that duals are non-basic. You may only search for a dual when a card say "earch for a forest", etc. You may not search for a dual land when a card says "search for a basic land".

Thrash Golem:
Which ever person's side the processor comes into play on has to pay the lafe. In this case, it would be the person who cast hte desertion.

When the Krakilin comes back from the wave it comes back into play as a 0/0 creature and dies.
If put into play by any means other than casting it, then it enters play with X=0. [D'Angelo 97/11/28]

black mage: The sub-game is a new game and doesn't care about the main game. You don't do any of the necro or echo stuff until you get back in the main game.


BTW: I would also like to correct myself. There are not five cards which count as basic lands, there are ten. I always forget about snow-covered lands. They are also considered basic lands.

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BlackStorm
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posted December 23, 2000 01:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlackStorm   Click Here to Email BlackStorm     
I have my own question.

If Gaea's Blessing goes into my graveyade from my library, do I draw a card or is that ability only for when i cast it?

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guenhwyvar
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posted December 23, 2000 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for guenhwyvar     
Blackstorm:

No, you wouldn't draw a card. Since the gaea's blessing isn't cast, only the triggered effect it causes when it went to the graveyard is dealt with. That effect being to reshuffle graveyard and library.

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