posted December 23, 2000 09:14 AM            

Also, can I deflect/misdirect a card like Hymn to Tourach back on its caster? I'm not sure where it says where it says 'target opponent' as opposed to 'target player' And if so, will this also work with Rebound??

Thanks.

posted December 23, 2000 02:32 PM            

i attack with the shifter which is currently a hellion, can i put 8 pumps on the stack and in response turn it into a dreadnaught to make it a 20/4 trampling dreadnaught?

thanks in advance.

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posted December 23, 2000 03:31 PM            

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posted December 23, 2000 10:41 PM            

You may deflect any spell which says "target player", but you may not deflect a spell which says "target opponent" since they are not their own opponent and can not target themselves.

Master: Yup. Pretty cool deck, huh. If I didn't know about the deck I would think this question is total bs, hehe. Who would actually play with those cards. I am concerned that the deck is not consistant enough since I built it on app and it sucked. I am thinking of making it into more of a combo deck by adding more search elements.

hell_raiser: The clone will come into play as a copy of unstable shapeshifter (assuming that the shapeshifter is itself), then the shapeshifter will become an unstable shapershifter so every time a creature comes into play it becomes a copy of it twice. If the shapeshifter is another creature when the clone comes into play, the clonse is a copy of that creature with the shapeshifter's ability, then the shapeshifter becomes a copy of the clone and has the shapeshifter ability twice. Very interesting to say the least.

Imagenyuss: If you both choose to put the legend into play then they both come into play at the same time so the following rule applies:
K.17.2 - Only one legendary permanent of a given name can be in play at a time. If a legendary permanent enters play when another legendary permanent of that name is already in play, the new one is put into its owner's graveyard. If more than one of the same name enters play at the same time, then all of them are put into their owner's graveyards. This is done as a state-based effect (see Rule T.11). [CompRules 99/04/23]
You just wasted your exhume because both of the legends die.

Selvaxri: They are removed from the game because:
A.4.21 - "Leaves play" triggers are handled with a special rule. Since the permanent will no longer be in play, if the ability wants to check anything about the permanent or game state, the ability "looks back in time" to just before the permanent left play. Any continuous effects or triggered abilities present at that time apply. [CompRules 99/04/23] For example, two creatures are in play with an artifact that says "Whenever a creature is put into a graveyard from play, you gain 1 life". A spell is played that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact's ability triggers twice even though the artifact went to the graveyard at the same time as the creatures. If you back up time to right before anything left play, it was there. [CompRules 99/04/23]

Time to go make a good ShifterNought deck, hehe.

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posted December 23, 2000 11:50 PM            

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posted December 24, 2000 12:29 AM            

K.25.Ruling.1 - Before ceasing to exist (as per Rule K.25.6), token creatures do briefly go where they are sent, which can trigger effects. For example, Soul Net can be used on a token creature going to the graveyard. See Rule K.25.6. [CompRules 99/04/23]

The tokens follow the same rules as creatures so they would go to their owner's graveyard just as a regualr creature card would.

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posted December 24, 2000 03:23 AM            

1) A Thermal Glider (protection from red) is Blocking my skizzik. does the trample damage go through?

2) I destroy my oponent's Yawgmoth Agenda...does it go into the graveyard or is it removed from the game?

posted December 24, 2000 05:48 AM            

A.27.9 - Assigning damage from a Trample creature only considers the actual toughness of the creature, not any abilities or effects that might prevent or redirect damage once it is assigned. [CompRules 99/04/23] For example, if a 2/2 creature with Protection from Green blocked a Force of Nature, you would only need to assign 2 damage to it, even though that damage will be prevented by the ability during damage prevention. [WotC Rules Team 98/10/18] Another way of thinking of this is that you need to assign enough damage that the creature would be lethally damaged if nothing prevented or redirected the damage. [D'Angelo 99/05/01]

2) Please look at my response to Selvaxri two posts up. The same rule applies. The agenda gets removed.

3) No, kicker is not an activated ability (but if it were bind would be a bit better)

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i have a humility deck (don't laugh at me, it kills 'em all, englishbreakfast, tradesur, recsur)
what about twenty one..
do i get 21 damage from the pandeburst combo, or 8? (if the humility is in play)

Humility and kicker costs.. can i play kicker, and put something into play and have counters on it?

if a diamond kalleidoscope activation is used.. it is a 1/1 creature (with humility) with no abilities, except that i can sack it for mana (since the artifact grants the ability)

posted December 24, 2000 04:30 PM            

i have infernal genesis and tainted Ęther in play, during my opponents' upkeep, when the minion tokens come into play, do they have to sacrifice an amount of creatures and/or lands when the genesis tokens come into play?

i have 4 shyshroud behemoths in play, along with a runed Arch (love this thing! )... my opponent plays humility.
Question: can i use the arch's ability, and make the behemoths (now 1/1's) unblockable. Can i then destroy the humility (turning my behemoths back to 10/10's) and keep my behemoths unblockable?
Q2> does humility nullify fading or not?
lmk

posted December 24, 2000 10:18 PM            

SauronDL69: No, you can not misdirect a moat.. it doesn't target anything. You just chose a color when it comes into play which is different from a target.

Firestorm_Hellkite:
1) You would only take one from each token since they come into play as 1/1 creatures.

2) Kicker sets up an ability on the creature that happens when it comes into play, but humility removes the abilities so the kicker doesn't do anything.

3) Yeah, you got that right... was that a question or something? The tokens can still be sacrificed, if you were asking that, because the artifact has the ability, not the creatures.

4) You can not terror in response to an elf being tapped for mana because its ability is a mana source.
If you do terror in response to the ability (but you can not in this case), the ability will still go through because removing the source doesn't stop the ability.

Selvaxri: Ooops, sorry I missed you.
1) Actually you both have to sacrifice a creature or land when the token comes into play because the AEther affects both people.

2) Yup, you have unblockable huge creatures

3) Yeah, fasing stops while humility is in play. The counters remain to start going away once humility goes away.

4) The card is countered and put on top of the library from the same card simultaneously. The ability of multani's presence triggers and is put on the stack. Then when that resolves, you then draw the card that was put back.

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posted December 24, 2000 10:40 PM         

quote:

---

Master: Yup. Pretty cool deck, huh. If I didn't know about the deck I would think this question is total bs, hehe. Who would actually play with those cards. I am concerned that the deck is not consistant enough since I built it on app and it sucked.

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posted December 24, 2000 11:00 PM            

I know with Survival, you can discard the nought after pumping the hellion shifter 11 times to make a 24/1 trampler... but... can't you also just use the shapeshifter's ability, without Survival, to the same (basically) effect?

posted December 24, 2000 11:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by killjoy72:
It SUCKED?!?! I have no idea what your talking about caquaa. I've built this deck on apprentice AFTER I read the "how to" from barclay and it's worked very well. Just ask Blackstorm

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posted December 24, 2000 11:21 PM         

quote:

---

The problem was the consistancy. Sometimes I just couldn't get survival, or I wouldn't get any counterspells to back anything up.

---

I haven't had too many problems with the consistancy in the deck. Then again, if you do shuffle before you draw in a game of apprentice, it has a funny effect of not keeping the cards random. I normally don't shuffle much beyond the auto-shuffle one gets when you start a new game. And here's a hint: If you don't get what you need in your opening hand, you can always paris. The deck has so many threats, your opponent normally can't counter them all and the shifter used to be a surprise for many.

posted December 24, 2000 11:36 PM            

If aura shards is in play and a chimeric Idol was converted into a creature, could the aura shards ability be used?

posted December 25, 2000 12:36 AM            

killjoy72: Yeah, I paris. The fewer cards I have though, the less chance of getting a good hand. I will change the deck more to my liking (maybe some card drawing cards would help).

qijo: The loss of 2 life is part of the resolution of the spell. [D'Angelo 99/05/01]
No loss of life after the 6th edition rules update on it.

No, the chimeric idol is not coming into play, it is just becoming a creature.

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posted December 25, 2000 10:43 PM            

Also, my opponent has 4 cards in play, one is a lich, i have 4 life.. I earthquake for 4, who wins?

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posted December 25, 2000 11:08 PM            

I then searched for a Tropical Island, which he said I couldn't do, though I was pretty sure I could. Though not wanting to argue, I let it slide, and got a forest.
Isn't it true, since it doesn't say on Land Grant "Basic Land", but instead "Forest", that I can search for any dual that counts as a forest?

posted December 27, 2000 05:58 AM            

Thrash Golem:
1) You have to pay the two colorless mana as well as sac the mountains.

2) Person w/ lich wins because the sac stuff ability goes on the stack

underworld dreams:
1) You can search for a dual if it names a land type. If it says basic land then you have to get a basic land and not a dual.

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