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Author Topic:   Need a Ruling?.. Come on in!.. Pt. 6
Ragemonkey
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posted March 25, 2001 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ragemonkey   Click Here to Email Ragemonkey     
I play Air Elemental, my opponent Counterspells, I Misdirect his Counterspell so it targets my Misdirection. Crestfallen, he looks at his hand and thinks awhile, picks up a card and says "I'll Misdirect your Misdirection so that it Misdirects...aw crap!"

Neither he or I know how misdirecting Misdirections work. Can someone explain?

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Inzane
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posted March 25, 2001 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Inzane   Click Here to Email Inzane     
What your friend should've done is misdirected the counterspell to RE-TARGET the air elemental.

In this case...I believe if he misdirected your misdirection, he'd have to chose another spell with a single target...like the counterspell, to target the air elemental again, a more complicated way of doing the stuff above.

megaman84
unregistered
posted March 25, 2001 11:43 PM           
ok, i got in a fight with some guy about this card

he says that if you played replenish, and the only enchantment in the graveyard was 'dillo cloak, and the only creature was a "blasto-fattie" could you put the cloak on the fattie.

secondly.
if treachery was the only card, could it target the blasto and get the 5 lands.

to both of these i said no.

who's right

trax72
Member
posted March 26, 2001 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trax72     
Ragemonkey: Well the above situation would work, actually. The stack will look like this: [Air Elemental - Counterspell targeting AE - Misdirection 1 targeting CS - Misdirection 2 targeting MD1 ]. When MD2 resolves, it's possible to change the target of MD1 to the MD2 itself because MD2 is not removed from the stack and put into the graveyard until it has finished resolving. After that, MD1 will be countered on resolution for having an illegal target and the CS will counter the AE. Note: When playing Misdirection, the new target for the spell isn't chosen on announcement but on resolution.

megaman84: Yes, it's possible to put the Cloak on a Blastoderm since the moving of the Enchantment doesn't actually target. An enchantment only targets when it is played, not when it's moved.

E.8.Ruling.1 - None of the enchantment moving spells and abilities require
the targeting of the new destination of the enchantment, so you can move
the enchantment onto a permanent that could not normally be targeted by a
spell or ability. [Mirage, Page 56] For example, you can move an
enchantment onto Deadly Insect.

So it would be possible aswell to put a Treachery on a Blastoderm, but you won't get to untap 5 lands because of Treachery's errata (the untapping only happens when it's played from your hand).

Renaud: The saccing of Peat Bog is part of the mana ability which means it resolves immediately aswell. So there's no way you can tap it for mana and return it with the Lair's triggered ability before it's gone. Note: there aren't any fade counters on Peat Bog, they're called depletion counters. (hmm, it appears this post was removed while I was writing this)

Urza
unregistered
posted March 26, 2001 02:20 PM           
what happens when you dominate an idol...does it fizzle when it turns back?


trax72
Member
posted March 27, 2001 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trax72     
It won't/can't fizzle, since it has already resolved. You will still retain control of the Dominated Chimeric Idol when it stops being a creature.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by trax72 on March 27, 2001]


Morphish Cat
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posted March 27, 2001 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Morphish Cat   Click Here to Email Morphish Cat     
Can you regenerate a sacrificed creature?

eg. Strossus + Nightscape Familiar (hehehe)

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Inzane
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posted March 27, 2001 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Inzane   Click Here to Email Inzane     
Straight from crystalkeep


G.29.4 - You may not attempt to regenerate a permanent which has been put into the graveyard or sacrificed (see Rule G.33). [CompRules 99/04/23


boogidy_boogidy
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posted March 27, 2001 05:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for boogidy_boogidy   Click Here to Email boogidy_boogidy     
You cast a Eureka and for one of the spells u cast for free is a Sparkcaster. Would u have to do the gating ability automatically or wait until the whole Eureka spell has resolved???

lmk

trax72
Member
posted March 28, 2001 04:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trax72     
Morphish Cat: To clarify on that rule: regeneration can only replace destruction, sacrificing is NOT destruction.

boogidy_boogidy: I can see what you're getting at, but that wouldn't work I'm afraid. Check this ruling on Eureka to make it clear:

Any abilities that trigger due to these cards coming into play do not
actually resolve until after the entire Eureka effect is done resolving.
[WotC Rules Team 98/02/01]


Laton
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posted March 28, 2001 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laton   Click Here to Email Laton     
Okay, just recently getting back into Magic, and this came up in a recent game:

My opponent has a Chilling Apparition in play, and I have a Pyre Zombie in play. He has only 1 untapped swamp, and I have a Rishadan Port in play. Before my attack phase, I use the Port on his untapped swamp. In response, he taps the swamp and says that he's using it to regenerate the Apparition. I object, but he says it's a regeneration shield, and to ask on IRC if I don't believe him. I do, and ppl there confirm his play.

Can anyone confirm that this is now legal? Can you also give me the ruling, and the web link to the rules, so I can read up on them?

Thanks,
Laton


Renaud
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posted March 28, 2001 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Renaud   Click Here to Email Renaud     
Laton: Try Coolio's links at the top of this post.

Here's what the glossary of the 6th edition rule book says about regeneration:

Regenerate
Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect. "Regenerate [permanent]" means "The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all damage from it, tap it, and (if it’s in combat) remove it from combat." Because it’s a replacement effect, it must be active before the attempted destruction event. Note that if destruction is caused by lethal damage, any abilities that trigger from that damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent regenerates.

So your friend is right - you can slap as many regeneration shields on the thing as you want, even before any dammage to it goes on the stack. But am I allowed to answer?

morphling69
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posted March 28, 2001 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for morphling69   Click Here to Email morphling69     
ok my friend has a pariah on his cho-manno if i were to rage him would that kill the cho-manno or could i even play the rage or what with kicker im meaning thx please e-mail me with an anwser thx


Goblin_Snowman
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posted March 28, 2001 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Goblin_Snowman   Click Here to Email Goblin_Snowman     
speaking of regeneration. Can I just debt of loyalty my opponents creature and take it?
EDIT to be more precise can I just debt of loyalty my opponents creature for no reason and take it? Can I just put a shield on it and take it?


[Edited 1 times, lastly by Goblin_Snowman on March 28, 2001]


trax72
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posted March 29, 2001 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trax72     
morphling69: If you cast a kickered Urza's Rage on an opponent that has a Cho-Manno with Pariah in play, the damage will be done to the Cho-Manno instead of the opponent. Since that damage can't be prevented, the Cho-Manno will die.

Goblin_Snowman: No, you will only gain control of that creature if the regeneration shield created by the Debt of Loyalty is actually used that turn.


Urza
unregistered
posted March 29, 2001 11:15 AM           
What is meant by combat damage.

Would preventing combat damage mean you wouldn't take any damage from attacking creatures?

Shadrach Storm
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posted March 29, 2001 10:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Shadrach Storm   Click Here to Email Shadrach Storm     
My opponent has an 11/12 Auratog with trample and attacks with it. I block with Uncle Istvan (1/3 and "All damage done to Uncle Istvan by creatures is reduced to 0."). I think the 11 points will be reduced to 0 by Uncle Istvan's special ability, so that no damage will make it through to me. My opponent thinks only the 3 points equal to Uncle Istvan's toughness will be reduced to 0 and that the remaining 8 will make it through to me. What does everyone else think?


reinhart
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posted March 30, 2001 01:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for reinhart     
if i cast calming verse on fires and it's sacked in response, do i gain life for it?

let's say i have a shivan wurm and sap burst with 1 token on it. can i play the shivan wurm, make a 0/0 token, and return it to my hand to keep the wurm in play?

let's say i play shivan wurm and i'm about to put the BoP on the board back in my hand. There is a llanowar elves on the table too. suddenly, my BoP is killed by terminate. Now what?

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Mr_Monstein
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posted March 30, 2001 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mr_Monstein   Click Here to Email Mr_Monstein     
If i powersink a persons lands so he has to tap them all, can he tap em in response to produce mana for an instant?


Archreaper
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posted March 30, 2001 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Archreaper   Click Here to Email Archreaper     
If I have a Gamekeeper with Pattern of Rebirth on it and it goes into my graveyard, which effect happens first. The pattern or the gamekeeper?

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Inzane
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posted March 30, 2001 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Inzane   Click Here to Email Inzane     
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Monstein:
If i powersink a persons lands so he has to tap them all, can he tap em in response to produce mana for an instant?

yes, of course he can...the powersink goes on the stack, and until it resolves, then he can tap his lands to play something in response to the powersink.



Inzane
Member
posted March 30, 2001 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Inzane   Click Here to Email Inzane     
quote:
Originally posted by Shadrach Storm:
My opponent has an 11/12 Auratog with trample and attacks with it. I block with Uncle Istvan (1/3 and "All damage done to Uncle Istvan by creatures is reduced to 0."). I think the 11 points will be reduced to 0 by Uncle Istvan's special ability, so that no damage will make it through to me. My opponent thinks only the 3 points equal to Uncle Istvan's toughness will be reduced to 0 and that the remaining 8 will make it through to me. What does everyone else think?

He only needs to assign lethal damage to the uncle isty, regardless of all abilities.

From Crystalkeep
Assigning damage from a Trample creature only considers the actual
toughness of the creature, not any abilities or effects that might prevent
or redirect damage once it is assigned. [CompRules 99/04/23] For example,
if a 2/2 creature with Protection from Green blocked a Force of Nature,
you would only need to assign 2 damage to it, even though that damage will
be prevented by the ability during damage prevention.
[WotC Rules Team 98/10/18] Another way of thinking of this is that you
need to assign enough damage that the creature would be lethally damaged
if nothing prevented or redirected the damage. [D'Angelo 99/05/01]



reinhart
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posted March 31, 2001 02:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for reinhart     
Mr_Monstein, yes you can. If i powersink you for 3 lands, u can tap 2 to play counterspell and since my powersink won't ever resolve, u will have one land untouched

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trax72
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posted March 31, 2001 07:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trax72     
Urza: Out of CompRules:

Combat Damage
Combat damage is dealt during the combat damage step of the combat phase by attacking creatures and blocking creatures. It doesn't include damage dealt by spells and abilities during the combat phase. See rule 310, "Combat Damage Step."

Yes, playing Fog or something similar would prevent all combat damage dealt to you by attacking creatures (you'd have to play it before any combat damage resolves ofcourse).

Shadrach Storm: Your opponent is correct, trample makes it possible to assign damage to the player after at least lethal damage has been assigned to the blocking creatures. So in this example, he can assign up to 8 damage to you.

reinhart: (1) Calming Verse?? I think you mean Multani's Decree? (Destroy all enchantments. You gain 2 life for each enchantment destroyed this way) You couldn't cast it "on" the Fires, it's a nontargetting spell that destroys all enchantments. Anyway, when using Multani's Decree and the Fires is sacced in response, you wouldn't gain any life for it since it's not being destroyed by Multani's Decree.
(2) No, that's not possible. If you were to use the Burst's ability in response to Shivan Wurm's gating ability the 0/0 token would be put in the graveyard as a statebased effect (and as another statebased effect, would cease to exist immediatelly afterwards). So it won't be there when the Shivan Wurm's gating ability resolves.
(3) I assume the Llanowar Elves is yours aswell - when the Shivan Wurm's gating ability resolves, you'll have to return a green or red creature to your hand. Since the BoP's already destroyed, you can either take back the Wurm itself or the Llanowar Elves. The gating effect is NOT targeted, and the choice is made on resolution of the triggered ability.

Archreaper: Both abilities will trigger at the same time, so you can decide the order in which they go onto the stack (see rule 410.3 in CompRules).

Firestorm_Hellkite
unregistered
posted April 01, 2001 06:38 AM           
If i play a reckless spite on two creatures and one of them leaves play (for example, i sac it in response), does the other creature still die??? If it doesn't do I still loose life?

lmk

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