posted February 12, 2001 11:05 AM            

Bottomless Pit/The Rack

**for arguments sake, lets forget that the rack has been ERRATED! to say beginning of draw step.

When I say done with the 2 cards in play, it'll go into the opponents untap-upkeep phases. now as the active player the opponent can do anything from draw with tome, ancestral, etc etc. because he has priority. But what really ticks me off is that most people think that they can control MY! effects during his upkeep. So for purposes of staying alive he'll say I'll take rack damage and then the pit. So then I politely mention that they are my effect and he has no control over them, then the argument begins!

posted February 12, 2001 02:41 PM            

1. Skizzik, someone told me that even after kicker is paid the first round it dies the next at end of turn. I argued that to be incorrect, am I right or am I wrong?(this wasnt a tournament game, it was during an arena game)

2.Phyrexian Infiltrator. The timing on that can be played like this right?. Pay the activation cost, swap creatures, but as a fast effect target the infiltrator itself and swap back again gaining the first creature target on the stack and still controling the infiltrator right?

posted February 12, 2001 05:28 PM            

pgw1956: If the bag has already been open, you'll count all that are in the bag. Same happened to my friend when he hid an open box of one hundred sleeves.

Cloud: I believe that The Rack says target, and you are controling the damage

RaZoRsEdGe: 1. The Skizzik will always stay in play, until it is removed.

2. No, you must swap one for one, also you can't target Infiltrator, since you still control it on the stack.

Selvaxri: No, since the card is being put into play by an effect. Kicker may only be paid when you are casting the card.

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posted February 12, 2001 05:49 PM            

The Shivan Wurm's ability is not targeted, so you can choose any creature as long as it is the appropriate color, in this case, red or green. So yes, Blastoderm is a perfectly legal target.

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posted February 12, 2001 07:47 PM            

- The gating triggered ability doesn't target anything, so it's perfectly
fine to return an untargetable card you control (or a card with the right
kind of protection) to its owner's hand.

guenhwyvar: Thank you. I have read the Planeshift FAQ, and I see that you factor it all in.

posted February 12, 2001 08:19 PM            

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posted February 12, 2001 08:31 PM         

If someone casts Aura Blast on my fires, and i sac the fires to pump something, does the Aura Blast let the caster draw a card still?

posted February 12, 2001 08:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aya Brea:
Ok, I understand now. The person who has the current upkeep uses all the effect he has control of, then the opponents effect will go into effect. The only way an opponents effect can go first, is if it say at the beginning of the upkeep, like the Oaths. So basically, if the person wants to assign the damage before the discard, he may do that.

---

Maybe we should wait for Coolio on this one Nearly every effect I can think of has received errata making it trigger at the beginning of the upkeep. However, this does not change the fact that the active player decides in what order these triggers go on the stack.

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posted February 12, 2001 11:19 PM         

The Rack:
Info: Color=Artifact Type=Artifact Cost=1 AQ(U3)/R4(U1)
Text(4th+errata): As ~this~ comes into play, choose target opponent. ; At
the beginning of the chosen player's draw step, ~this~ deals X damage to
that player where X is the number of cards in his or her hand fewer than
three. [Oracle 99/09/03]
You choose one opposing player on casting and it only affects that one
player. This target is not changed even if this card changes controllers.
It becomes useless but stays in play if the target player leaves play.
[Duelist Magazine #4, Page 64] See Rule M.1.3.
Amount of damage is determined when effect is resolved and not when it is
announced. [D'Angelo 95/10/05]

The bottomless pit happens at the begging of the upkeep and the rack happens at the beginning of the draw step.
This is a pointless argument in this case, however the ruling proposed is itself is fairly important. Who decides what goes on the stack when?

A.4.8 - If multiple triggered abilities are being placed on the stack at
one time, ones controlled by the current player go on the stack first, in
any order that player chooses. Then ones controlled by the other player,
in any order that player chooses. [CompRules 99/04/23]

So in the above case you COULD make them take additional rack damage if the cards were not following current errata. And isn't that what this is all about? Doing more damage...

posted February 13, 2001 11:39 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cloud:
Now i know the answer to this question but I want back up on it so people can stop getting into this same stupid argument everytime it comes up:

Bottomless Pit/The Rack

**for arguments sake, lets forget that the rack has been ERRATED! to say beginning of draw step.

When I say done with the 2 cards in play, it'll go into the opponents untap-upkeep phases. now as the active player the opponent can do anything from draw with tome, ancestral, etc etc. because he has priority. But what really ticks me off is that most people think that they can control MY! effects during his upkeep. So for purposes of staying alive he'll say I'll take rack damage and then the pit. So then I politely mention that they are my effect and he has no control over them, then the argument begins!

So please, to either enlighten me or back me up, am I right on this?

---

Lol, that wouldnt be that big arguement that you got into when you came down here was it?

Anywayz I got a question. I think I know the awnser to it, but I need a postive anwser on it. Ok, can I return a City of Traitors to my hand if I play a Triland, or does it die first. I think it dies first, but I may be wrong. LMK

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posted February 13, 2001 01:01 PM         

This means that cards like salt marsh would come into play as untapped mountains. However, the visions lands would come into play tapped due to specific rulings on those cards.

Karoo:
Info: Color=Land Type=Land Cost=None VI(U1)
Text(VI+errata): ~this~ comes into play tapped. ; If ~this~ would come into
play, return an untapped plains you control to its owner's hand instead.
If you do, put ~this~ into play. If you don't, put it into its owner's
graveyard. ; {Tap}: Add {W} and one colorless mana to your mana pool.
[Oracle 00/02/01]

You must return a plains to play it, and then when it does come into play it would enter as a mountain.

posted February 13, 2001 01:45 PM            

K.11.7 - If you are asked to choose a creature type, you do not have to choose a creature type which already exists in the game. You can make up your own type, such as Platypus, if you choose. This type can only have one word. You may not choose a name which has another meaning in the game, such as "opponent" or "land". Also, slanderous, obscene, and otherwise offensive choices are considered poor sportsmanship and may cause ejection from a tournament. [CompRules 99/04/23] You can choose any creature type that exists on any Magic card in existance. You cannot choose the name of a card in Magic (unless that name is also a creature type), or any word that is in the glossary of the comprehensive rules or is otherwise used to mean something special under the rules. [bethmo 99/11/30]

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posted February 13, 2001 02:01 PM            

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