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Author	Topic: Rulings Thread #15, post all rulings questions here!
flavor_of_the_weak Member	posted March 19, 2003 10:26 PM What happens if my opponent attacks with a Taunting Elf,Heedless One and i have a Quick Sliver in play then i play a Planted sliver and Ward Sliver(Pick Green) as he declear attackers.So i still have to block the Taunting Elf? __________________ Listen to 3 Doors Down The Road I'm On. 1-Slash,John Frusciante,Jimmy Page and Randy Rhoads are the best guitar players 2-Buy Gibson or PRS Guitars 3-David Lee Roth is the best Van Halen Singer There is. 4-E-mail Days_of_the_weak@hotmail.com for trades.
FyreStar Member	posted March 19, 2003 10:58 PM quote: Originally posted by flavor_of_the_weak: What happens if my opponent attacks with a Taunting Elf,Heedless One and i have a Quick Sliver in play then i play a Planted sliver and Ward Sliver(Pick Green) as he declear attackers.So i still have to block the Taunting Elf? Yes. You play the other slivers after he declares attackers but still in the Declare Attackers Step. Once you move on to the Declare Blockers step, all your creatures that can block Taunting Elf, must. Since those slivers can block the Elf, they must. __________________ You can't cheat an honest man.
gzeiger Member	posted March 20, 2003 12:40 AM All "until end of turn" effects wear off simultaneously. There's no way for a Mistform ability other than Ultimus to continue granting another creature type past the end of the turn. __________________ DCI certified Level 2 judge gzeiger@hotmail.com
Mr. Precious Member	posted March 20, 2003 06:29 AM with hystrodon (3/4 trample) if i attack and my opponent blocks with a 2/2, when the damage tramples over, is that considered combat damage or trample damage? do i still draw a card from his ability? i think, yes.
PsykoSk8r Member	posted March 20, 2003 06:47 AM yes you would draw your card. __________________ Warhammer... yayyyy....
mulder Member	posted March 20, 2003 07:42 AM My opponent has a 2/2 creature out and a Negator. If I play Pyroclasm, can he sac the 2/2 for the damage taken by the Negator, or is it already dead?
grimmer Member	posted March 20, 2003 09:03 AM It will already be dead at the time the Negator's triggered ability resolves. When Pyroclasm resolves, it deals 2 damage to each creature. This triggers the Negator's ability, but it doesn't go on the stack until a player gets priority. Before a player gets priority, state-based effects are checked and the 2/2 is put in the graveyard. When the player gets priority, the trigger goes on the stack. When the trigger resolves, the controller of the Negator must sacrifice 2 permanents still in play (since sacrifice means put into graveyard from play).
caballero_de_sombras Member	posted March 20, 2003 10:03 AM if i blocked a creature and use a tap abilitie of the blocker (before damage), the tapped creature blocking deals damage to the attacker ?
FyreStar Member	posted March 20, 2003 10:06 AM quote: Originally posted by caballero_de_sombras: if i blocked a creature and use a tap abilitie of the blocker (before damage), the tapped creature blocking deals damage to the attacker ? Yes. Tapped creatures still deal combat damage. __________________ You can't cheat an honest man.
incubussr Member	posted March 20, 2003 12:46 PM I am playing slide, and I have some questions about my end/cleanup step. Sorry if these questions have already been asked. 1. My opponent as a roar token out. I cast a Pardic Arsonist (with threshold) and deal three damage to it. Can I slide out my Arsonist and have it come back into play EOT and kill the Wurm? 2. During my main phase I slide out my Cartographer. Is there a point in time that my opponent can kill it during my end step? For example, when it comes into play EOT, can he smother it? Thanks in advance
Tad Member	posted March 20, 2003 12:52 PM Yes and yes. __________________ *Under Capitalism, man exploits man; Under Communism, it’s just the opposite.* [Edited 2 times. Lastly by TunaBoo on Friday March 15, 2003]
Skullcrusher Member	posted March 20, 2003 12:58 PM I've got some questions about madness. What if: 1. My opponent casts Wrath of God. Can I discard Arrogant Wurm to my Wild Mongrel, let the Wrath resolve and then play the Wurm for its madness cost? 2. I activate my Merfolk Looter. If I draw a Wooded Foothills and discard Arrogant Wurm, can I play the Foothills, sac it for a Forest and then cast the Wurm?
incubussr Member	posted March 20, 2003 12:59 PM In situation #2: If I slide out my Cartographer in response to the smother, will he come back the end of my turn or my opponents. I'm not quite sure, but I thought that the cleanup step kept happening until there was nothing else left.
Tad Member	posted March 20, 2003 01:01 PM quote: Originally posted by Skullcrusher: I've got some questions about madness. What if: 1. My opponent casts Wrath of God. Can I discard Arrogant Wurm to my Wild Mongrel, let the Wrath resolve and then play the Wurm for its madness cost? 2. I activate my Merfolk Looter. If I draw a Wooded Foothills and discard Arrogant Wurm, can I play the Foothills, sac it for a Forest and then cast the Wurm? 1: No, the wurm will get killed. 2: Yes, since playing a land doesn't use the stack. __________________ *Under Capitalism, man exploits man; Under Communism, it’s just the opposite.* [Edited 2 times. Lastly by TunaBoo on Friday March 15, 2003]
grimmer Member	posted March 20, 2003 01:21 PM quote: Originally posted by incubussr: In situation #2: If I slide out my Cartographer in response to the smother, will he come back the end of my turn or my opponents. I'm not quite sure, but I thought that the cleanup step kept happening until there was nothing else left. You are correct that the cleanup step repeats. However, Astral Slide has an "at end of turn" trigger. "At end of turn" triggers only have one opportunity to go on the stack each turn... during the end step (prior to the cleanup step). The cleanup step only repeats if, for example, in discarding to your maximum hand size, you discard a card with madness (Basking Rootwalla, etc)
AltronDragon Member	posted March 20, 2003 01:41 PM quote: Originally posted by Tad: 2: Yes, since playing a land doesn't use the stack. That is incorrect. You can not play the land and cast the wurm with it. Lands can only be played with an empty stack. 214.9b A player may normally play only one land card during each of his or her own turns, only during a main phase, and only when the stack is empty. EDIT: Listen to da-odd-templar. His is much more clear than my explanation. [Edited 1 times, lastly by AltronDragon on March 20, 2003]
da-odd-templar Member	posted March 20, 2003 01:55 PM Eh, I think he would not be able to use the land to pay for the wurm's madness cost, but not because of what you cited. The way madness works, you can play the spell for it's madness cost so long as you have priority. Next time you pass, if you didn't cast it, the madness spell goes to the graveyard. And when you sac the fetchland, you have to pass priority to allow it's ability to resolve. Thus, you will not get the 3rd land needed for the wurm's madness. However, if the land you had was a forest or mountain, for example, you could easily play the land and then play the wurm for it's madness cost, since playing a land doesn't pass priority. __________________ Ari - We'll miss you.
incubussr Member	posted March 20, 2003 04:50 PM Can I block with a creature, put damage on the stack and slide it out? For instance, can I block a 2/2 with a auramancer, assign combat damage, and slide her out to save her? I know there were some rules problems where you could not assign lethal damage and bounce the creature (blinking spirit if I am not mistaken). To the above questions about the arrogant wurm: Are you saying that you can put arrogant wurm in the madness zone, play a land, and then cast it? That just seems weird to me. I feel dumb asking these questions, but I only ever play type 1, and stuff like this barely ever comes up because every creature I usually see is a morphling and no one hardly ever plays madness spells
da-odd-templar Member	posted March 20, 2003 04:56 PM quote: Originally posted by incubussr: Can I block with a creature, put damage on the stack and slide it out? For instance, can I block a 2/2 with a auramancer, assign combat damage, and slide her out to save her? I know there were some rules problems where you could not assign lethal damage and bounce the creature (blinking spirit if I am not mistaken). To the above questions about the arrogant wurm: Are you saying that you can put arrogant wurm in the madness zone, play a land, and then cast it? That just seems weird to me. I feel dumb asking these questions, but I only ever play type 1, and stuff like this barely ever comes up because every creature I usually see is a morphling and no one hardly ever plays madness spells First off, don't feel dumb at all. Everybody is new to certain parts of the rules at some point in their magic lifetime. To your first question, yes, you can assign combat damage, and then slide a creature out. You can also do the same trick with bounce spells. To your second question, here's a quote from the comp. rules: quote: 02.24a Madness is a keyword that represents two abilities. The first is a static ability that functions while the card with madness is in a player's hand. The second is a triggered ability that functions when the first ability is applied. The phrase "Madness [cost]" means "If a player would discard this card from his or her hand, that player discards it, but may remove it from the game instead of putting it into his or her graveyard" and "When this card is removed from the game this way, until that player passes next, the player may play it any time he or she could play an instant as though it were in his or her hand by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. When the player passes next, he or she puts it into his or her graveyard." So because playing a land does not pass priority, you can play a land while you have a madness card in the madness zone, then play your madness spell for it's madness cost. An example would be discarding a fiery temper during the resolution of rites of spring, then fetching a mountain using the rites, then playing the mountain and using the mountain to pay the temper's madness cost. This is possible because you discard the temper (and all other card) on the resolution of the rites, so when the rites resolves, you get priority back, able to play your land freely without interruption. It works differently for spells that require a discard for their cost, because in that situation, you would have to play the card for it's madness cost before the spell resolves, since it's madness trigger would go on the stack on top of the spell you discarded it to. I know it may sound confusing, but it's just 2 abilities. __________________ Ari - We'll miss you.
incubussr Member	posted March 20, 2003 05:01 PM Thanks for all the help rules gurus. Slide is really looking good for regionals now. All sorts of neat tricks.
Pixie Dust Member	posted March 20, 2003 07:48 PM Hi and stuff. If you have a Furnace of Rath and a Sulfuric Vapors in play, and you Incinerate someone, do they take 7 or 8 damage? I'm not sure whether it's a case of multiplication coming before addition, or whether it's to do with the order the enchantments came into play. So I thought I'd ask you all because you'll know. __________________ Most innocent member of MOTL. ICQ 8176116
olliehighzero Member	posted March 21, 2003 11:29 AM if i cast opalescense and turned all of my friends lighning rifts and astral slides[including one of mine] into creaures, and i cycle three cards, sliding out all of the enchantments, would they ever return? wouldnt that be like the husk/buthcer combo or is that only on the leaves play triggered ability? thanks! zero __________________ i will not play u/g, i will not play u/g GO B/G! if george jetson had road rage and left his flying vehicle to punch another motorist and fell, would his hair-do get messed up?
FyreStar Member	posted March 21, 2003 11:43 AM quote: Originally posted by olliehighzero: if i cast opalescense and turned all of my friends lighning rifts and astral slides[including one of mine] into creaures, and i cycle three cards, sliding out all of the enchantments, would they ever return? wouldnt that be like the husk/buthcer combo or is that only on the leaves play triggered ability? thanks! zero They would come back. When you use Astral Slide to remove something from the game, it does so and then sets up what is called a delayed triggered ability. A delayed trigger is something that a spell or ability sets up a certain time, but doesn't actually happen until a later time when some condition is met. In this case, using Astral Slide sets up a delayed triggered ability that will return the cards to play at end of turn. It doesn't matter if the Astral Slide is still in play, and it doesn't matter what card type you removed with it (remember, you only have cards in the Removed From Game zone.. no creatures or enchantments, just creature cards and enchantment cards). __________________ You can't cheat an honest man.
grimmer Member	posted March 21, 2003 11:44 AM if i cast opalescense and turned all of my friends lighning rifts and astral slides[including one of mine] into creaures, and i cycle three cards, sliding out all of the enchantments, would they ever return? Yes. Astral Slide sets up a delayed trigger which remembers what was removed from the game. Since it specifies "creature" and not "Creature card" it doesn't care the status of the card unless it gets removed from the removed from game zone before the delayed trigger resolves, because that will cause the Slide to lose track of the card. wouldnt that be like the husk/buthcer combo or is that only on the leaves play triggered ability? The Butcher has two triggered abilities that happen at the time the given situation occurs (comes into play or leaves play). Astral Slide has a delayed trigger. This waits for the given time/instance to trigger and then it will be put on the stack. Once the "remove from game" ability resolves, the "return" ability is waiting for its opportunity to trigger and exists independent of the Slide itself (even if the Slide is destroyed).
crazyturk Member	posted March 22, 2003 06:03 PM I can Harrow for duals, correct? __________________ Insert signature here.

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