posted November 30, 2003 10:49 AM            

During the Top 8 my opponent said "show me a counterspell and I'll concede" I did and he kept playing, is there anyway to be penalized for this?

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posted November 30, 2003 11:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Vampric Doctor:
2 questions from a JSS yesterday.
What if my opponent has Ancient Den and a Sacred Ground out and I play March of the Machines?

During the Top 8 my opponent said "show me a counterspell and I'll concede" I did and he kept playing, is there anyway to be penalized for this?

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Ancient Den becomes a 0/0 artifact creature land, is put in the graveyard by the rules (and not by March of the Machines), and Sacred Ground does not trigger. So... Artifact lands die under March of the Machines, and Sacred Ground doesn't bring them back.

I'd say the "show me a Counterspell and I'll concede" stunt is unsporting conduct at the very least, and borders on cheating. I'll leave this one for gzeiger to double check me on... he's the resident level 2.

posted November 30, 2003 11:51 AM            

Can these lands be destroyed by artifact spells? (detonate, shatter etc)

So what exactlly are they?

Thanks!

~Revenger

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posted November 30, 2003 11:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
I am a little confused on the artifact lands. They are not spells. But it does not say "land- artifact"

Can these lands be destroyed by artifact spells? (detonate, shatter etc)

So what exactlly are they?

Thanks!

~Revenger

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Artifact lands follow all rules for both of their types. They can be destroyed by Shatter (Destroy target artifact) and by Stone Rain (Destroy target land). Anything that has an effect based on one or the other type will count an artifact land in any zone (Tolarian Academy, affinity, Terravore).

posted November 30, 2003 12:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teroknorevents:
Artifact lands follow all rules for both of their types. They can be destroyed by Shatter (Destroy target artifact) and by Stone Rain (Destroy target land). Anything that has an effect based on one or the other type will count an artifact land in any zone (Tolarian Academy, affinity, Terravore).

In short... It works just like an artifact creature being targetable by artifact removal and by creature removal.

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Thanks!

~Revenger

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posted November 30, 2003 02:15 PM            

Do you still get to draw after you put your tokens into play?

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posted November 30, 2003 02:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tjtindal:
"Infernal Genesis"

Do you still get to draw after you put your tokens into play?

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posted November 30, 2003 02:34 PM            

1. "Boomerang" can't return an enchantment back to your hand can it? Enchantment's aren't permanents, right?

2. Can you counter a flashback from they graveyard that requires a mana cost? (Or how about one that doesn't?) ie: Hammer of Bogarden (or) Battle Screech

3. If a creature has protection from white, can it be "Wrath of God"-ed?

4. Can you regenerate "Drudge Skeletons" or anything else with regeneration like a turn later? Or does it have to be time it dies?

5. And as the 2nd part to question 4, if, say that "Drudge Skeletons" dies while it has "Unholy Strength" on it, does that get trashed even if you regenerate?

If I think of any other "probably stupid" questions that I should already know the answer to, I'll ask.

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posted November 30, 2003 02:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tjtindal:
Okay, how about a series of "probably stupid" questions?

1. "Boomerang" can't return an enchantment back to your hand can it? Enchantment's aren't permanents, right?

2. Can you counter a flashback from they graveyard that requires a mana cost? (Or how about one that doesn't?) ie: Hammer of Bogarden (or) Battle Screech

3. If a creature has protection from white, can it be "Wrath of God"-ed?

4. Can you regenerate "Drudge Skeletons" or anything else with regeneration like a turn later? Or does it have to be time it dies?

5. And as the 2nd part to question 4, if, say that "Drudge Skeletons" dies while it has "Unholy Strength" on it, does that get trashed even if you regenerate?

If I think of any other "probably stupid" questions that I should already know the answer to, I'll ask.

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2. Yes, they are spells, although the Hammer isn't a flashback card...

3. Yes, wrath of god doesn't target.

4. You have to do it the time it dies. Regeneration only stops it from dying, not bring it back from the graveyard.

posted November 30, 2003 02:52 PM            

1. Let's say I have "Serra Angel" in play. And for whatever reason, I bring "Nekrataal" in and target "Serra Angel." She dies. Then, some turns later, I play "Patriarch's Bidding" and say 'angels.' Does she come back? When I killed her with "Nekrataal", it said 'When Nekrataal comes into play, destroy target nonartifact, nonblack creature. THAT CREATURE CAN'T BE REGENERATED.' So, can the "Patriarch's Bidding" bring her back even though she can't be regenerated?

2. I have "Phyrexian Broodlings" in play. It says, '1, Sacrafice a creature: Put a +1/+1 counter on Phyrexian Broodlings.' If I sack a "Drudge Skeletons" and regenerate him, does the counter still apply? I guess the question really is: If a creature is killed and regeneration, did it ever actually hit the graveyard?

I guess that's it again for now!

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posted November 30, 2003 03:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tjtindal:
More...

1. Let's say I have "Serra Angel" in play. And for whatever reason, I bring "Nekrataal" in and target "Serra Angel." She dies. Then, some turns later, I play "Patriarch's Bidding" and say 'angels.' Does she come back? When I killed her with "Nekrataal", it said 'When Nekrataal comes into play, destroy target nonartifact, nonblack creature. THAT CREATURE CAN'T BE REGENERATED.' So, can the "Patriarch's Bidding" bring her back even though she can't be regenerated?

2. I have "Phyrexian Broodlings" in play. It says, '1, Sacrafice a creature: Put a +1/+1 counter on Phyrexian Broodlings.' If I sack a "Drudge Skeletons" and regenerate him, does the counter still apply? I guess the question really is: If a creature is killed and regeneration, did it ever actually hit the graveyard?

I guess that's it again for now!

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In magic Regenerate has a very specific meaning, and it means:

Regenerate: Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect. "Regenerate [permanent]" means "The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all damage from it, tap it, and (if it's in combat) remove it from combat." Because it's a replacement effect, it must be active before the attempted destruction event. Abilities that trigger from damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent regenerates. See rule 419.6b.

Thus Regeneration only affects permanents in play, and it only stops them from dying, after they are dead it has no influence on them. So bringing back a Serra Angel using Patriarch's Bidding has nothing to do with Regeneration. However, you could always say Nekrataal and bring back your Nekrataal from the graveyard, too. (and kill the Angel, again).

2.) Sacrifice also has a specific definition in Magic:

Sacrifice: To sacrifice a permanent, its controller moves it from the in-play zone directly to its owner's graveyard. A player can't sacrifice something that isn't a permanent, or something that's a permanent he or she doesn't control. If an effect instructs a player to sacrifice a permanent that he or she doesn't control, nothing happens. Sacrificing a permanent doesn't destroy it, so regeneration or other effects that replace destruction can't affect it.

I bolded the part that's relevant.

posted November 30, 2003 03:12 PM            

2. You can't regenerate something that is being sacrificed. (Game rule.)

EDIT: Dangit, d-o-t. You're just trying to run up your frag count now.

posted November 30, 2003 10:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by roberto8k:
I've got a Triskelion with 3 counters in play. My opponent hits it with Volcanic Hammer (which resolves), then casts Pyroclasm. I attempt to ping him for 3 in response, but he claims that after the first counter is removed the Trisk dies to a state-based effect (having already taken 3 damage), so I can only ping for 1. He might be right, I've got no idea. Anyone know how this works? Thanks in advance.

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Your opponet is correct. Triskelion has 3 damage on it. You ping him for 1 by removing a counter, then when priority passes to him SBE will see that the triskelion has lethal damage and cause it to go to the graveyard before you can ping again.

posted November 30, 2003 10:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Vampric Doctor:
During the Top 8 my opponent said "show me a counterspell and I'll concede" I did and he kept playing, is there anyway to be penalized for this?

---

Since you laid it on me, I guess I have to answer this. Did you call a judge over and ask? I'd agree that this falls into the realm of unsporting conduct, and the penalty could range from a warning for Unsporting Conduct - ******* to Cheating - DQ, depending on the player (although this shortcut is generally only used by people who have been around enough to know what's going on). Other things could be going on though. Maybe it's late in the game and he has 15 mana and he thinks he's saying he'll scoop to Rewind/Discombobulate and the Eternal Dragon in your graveyard, but you only showed him a Mana Leak. Basically it depends on any number of things, but you should definitely call a judge over.

posted December 01, 2003 02:11 PM            

there's two questions I want to ask but I can't remember the names of the cards so please bear with me.

1) There's a new little 1/1 black cleric that costs one Black mana to cast and when an artifact goes to the graveyard, target opponent loses one life. Quesiton is: If an artifact and this guy dies at the same time (artifact creature and this guy dies from earthquake or wrath of god for example) Does the opponent still lose the one life?

2) There's a nice white card that cost 1 white and 2 colorless with entwine 1 colorless that taps two creatures or target player does not untap his creatures during there next untap. My opponent only has one creature and I have a mana myr. Question: Can I tap my mana myr for the mana to cast this spell and tap my opponent's creature and my already tapped mana myr? (basically can you tap a tapped creature?)

posted December 01, 2003 02:23 PM            

2). yes, it can be "tapped" again, though nothing really happens to it

posted December 01, 2003 06:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by gzeiger:
Since you laid it on me, I guess I have to answer this. Did you call a judge over and ask? I'd agree that this falls into the realm of unsporting conduct, and the penalty could range from a warning for Unsporting Conduct - ******* to Cheating - DQ, depending on the player (although this shortcut is generally only used by people who have been around enough to know what's going on). Other things could be going on though. Maybe it's late in the game and he has 15 mana and he thinks he's saying he'll scoop to Rewind/Discombobulate and the Eternal Dragon in your graveyard, but you only showed him a Mana Leak. Basically it depends on any number of things, but you should definitely call a judge over.

Next time, a good move would be to call the judge over and have the guy repeat his statement before revealing cards in your hand.

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Yes, I called a judge over he said "don't say things like that" and went on, needless to say I was QUITE mad. This was in the top 8, the kid knew what he was doing. This kid had already gotten a warning for unsportsmanlike conduct and multiple warning for tapping lands wrong (something procedure?) and yet, he pulled this and drew a card of an untargeted scrabbling claws before I could stop him (giving him his fourth improper? procedure warning or the tourney). Yet, the judge did absolutley nothing, I ended up winning the match but is this worth reporting to the DCI? The fact that the judge lets people pull this stuff makes me sick.

1 final questions, my oppoent has sacred ground out and an artifact land, I play Akroma's Vengeance, the lands return, correct?

EDIT: situation was, I had some angel beatdown going on, he said show me a counter adn I'll concede, I showed Rewind, he said show another, I figured he was already done and was curious what I was holding, I then showed a mana leak and he kept going.

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Trotters Traders, Vampric Doctor, GottaLoveElves, The Phoenix, Jazaray

(In reference to me) The Ouphe King: Don't listen to much he says

posted December 01, 2003 06:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vampric Doctor:
Yes, I called a judge over he said "don't say things like that" and went on, needless to say I was QUITE mad. This was in the top 8, the kid knew what he was doing. This kid had already gotten a warning for unsportsmanlike conduct and multiple warning for tapping lands wrong (something procedure?) and yet, he pulled this and drew a card of an untargeted scrabbling claws before I could stop him (giving him his fourth improper? procedure warning or the tourney). Yet, the judge did absolutley nothing, I ended up winning the match but is this worth reporting to the DCI? The fact that the judge lets people pull this stuff makes me sick.

1 final questions, my oppoent has sacred ground out and an artifact land, I play Akroma's Vengeance, the lands return, correct?

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Yes, most definitely report that. Judges who act improperly can be demoted, decertified, or even suspended from the DCI. The default penalty for three warnings is DQ, and this should have been followed in this case.

posted December 01, 2003 06:39 PM            

I would send an email to dci@wizards.com with whatever details seem relevant (particularly date and location of the tournament and the player and judge's names and DCI numbers, if available). It's very unlikely that anything will happen to the judge, but several things may happen as a result:
1) They may look into this player's history and decide that he has a surprising number of warnings for shady behavior, which may lead to a suspension.
2) They may look into this player's history and find that no warnings are recorded because this judge is rather more lax than you ever imagined. I don't know what would happen in that case.
3) They may put a warning in the judge's file as a flag to check if they receive a future complaint.
4) They may explain to you politely that people cheat at the JSS and you should get over it.