posted September 14, 2004 02:20 PM            

Given each player has nest and craft in play, each can produce a large number of tokens, however note that you must tap a created token to make the next one.

Basically, whoever gets to untap first will win. Because the person who untaps will run his 1000s of tokens into his opponents one!

If however there are external factors (such as turnabouts or something) there is a loop. Under the rules, as I understand them, the active player is responsible for determineing how many times he would like to repeat the loop, say 1000 times. The non-active player then chooses a number, say 2000 times.

Granted the loop could start over, however the non active player will always be able to choose a larger number.

Even in the other examples, if the active player is getting 9 creatures for every one the non-active player is getting, the unwillingness to break the loop from both players would result in the active player choosing to do it say 2000 times and the non active player saying say 20,000 times.

A judge would limit the amount of times that you could start the loop, as it is futile for the active player.

Note however that the active player is always the one attacking! So in the case of turnabout or some such, the non active player will always be able to block.

Please correct me if im wrong!

-Alex Ledbetter

posted September 14, 2004 10:23 PM            

A: Each turn or each player would be allowed to choose a number of times to repeat the process with the non-active player choosing second. Because the non-active player chooses he would be able to choose to repeat the process more often than the active player. While this situation would very likely create a stalemate, by only allowing each player to repeat the process once you do not have an automatic draw.

Here is the relevant rule:

421.5. If the loop contains at least one optional action controlled by each player and these actions don't depend on one another, the active player chooses a number. The nonactive player can either agree to that number or choose a higher number. Note that this rule applies even if the actions could exist in separate loops rather than in a single loop.

posted September 15, 2004 08:59 PM            

I can stack it so that they draw the first card of their draw step, then teferi's puzzle box's affect goes off, triggering chains of meph so that they end up discarding the card anyway, correct?

my understanding is that active player places affects on the stack, then non-active player places their affects on the stack, but it was argued the other day in a multiplayer game. I think mostly because i just raped everyone else that was playing.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

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posted September 15, 2004 10:25 PM            

can I stack puzzlebox so that:

- opponent draws
- puzzlebox affect happens on the stack
- opponent puts hand on bottom of library
- opponent draws from puzzlebox's ability
- opponent mills from the top of his library due to replacement affect and draws no cards

is this correct?

EDIT: nevermind, I just checked crystal keep, and apparently this affect will always happen after the original draw, you don't need to get into active/non-active, stacking... etc...

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posted September 16, 2004 08:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KtotheG:
How do I know which continuous artifacts stop working when they're tapped? I know after a certain set they started saying "X does Y if it is untapped" but back in Revised, Tempest days, etc. cards didn't specify this (see Howling Mine and Static Orb).

Do I need to read card errata on all of the old cards to figure out which ones cease to function when tapped or is there something in the nature of the card itself that will give this information away? What of Trinisphere? Sphere of Resistance? Etc?

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posted September 20, 2004 08:09 AM            

2. I have an Ernham Djinn in play. Can my opponent make his Mishra's Factory a creature during his upkeep and force me to give it forestwalk? And does it still have forestwalk when he turns it into a creature again next turn?
Can I give his Troll Ascetic forestwalk?

3. I use the ability of Helm of Obedience, and I get an Eternal Witness from my opponent. Can I return the same Helm to my hand from my graveyard?

posted September 20, 2004 08:50 AM         

quote:

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Originally posted by mulder:
1. What happens if you Stifle Riptide Replicator's cip ability 5the onewhere you choose a color and creature type)?

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quote:

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2. I have an Ernham Djinn in play. Can my opponent make his Mishra's Factory a creature during his upkeep and force me to give it forestwalk? And does it still have forestwalk when he turns it into a creature again next turn?

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quote:

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Can I give his Troll Ascetic forestwalk?

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quote:

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3. I use the ability of Helm of Obedience, and I get an Eternal Witness from my opponent. Can I return the same Helm to my hand from my graveyard?

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posted September 20, 2004 05:58 PM            

So whenever the paperwork gets processed I will join the rank and file.

(Yeah, I posted something like this in the Prerelease thread, but I felt like posting it twice, yo).

posted September 21, 2004 10:06 AM            

Im pretty sure that you HAVE to target something with modular, its just a may for the putting the counters on.

posted September 21, 2004 10:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Master:
Ive got a question about modular.

Im pretty sure that you HAVE to target something with modular, its just a may for the putting the counters on.

So If I have horobi, Deaths wail out and his board is 2 ravagers, and 3 workers, one target spell will clear his entire board, correct?

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no, if you do not choose to use the ability, the effect stops befor targets are chosen.

quote:

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I have an Aether Vial in play with (3) counters on it. I cast the Glimpse of Nature. Later that turn I tap the vial to put an Eternal Witness in play. Do I get to draw a card?

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no, playing and putting into play are very different things. Things that are put into play via an ability are not spells.

posted September 21, 2004 11:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TheMidnightBomber:
no, if you do not choose to use the ability, the effect stops befor targets are chosen.

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Wrong, even if the ability says may you have to choose targets before the ability goes on the stack, you can't choose not to but an ability on the stack.

So each one will get targeted with modular and die.

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posted September 21, 2004 06:04 PM            

Wall of Souls blocks a random 6/6 w/o trample.

How mush damge does the owner of said trampler get back in return?

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posted September 21, 2004 06:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by harbingerofthevoid:
man I love my noob questions...

Wall of Souls blocks a random 6/6 w/o trample.

How mush damge does the owner of said trampler get back in return?

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w/o means without

if the creature didn't have trampler the wall will deal 6 back

if the creature did have trampler then it depends on how the attacker assigns his trampler damage, if he splits it up 4 to the wall and 2 to the player then he will only take 4 because that's all the creature took.

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posted September 22, 2004 12:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by abc_exporters:
This question has probaly been asked already, but I couldn't find it on the board. Does the Bringer of Red Dawn's ability target a creature? Can I take control of a pro-red creature?

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Bringer of the Red Dawn
7RR, Creature - Bringer 5/5
You may pay {W}{U}{B}{R}{G} rather than pay Bringer of the Red Dawn's mana cost.
Trample
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may untap target creature and gain control of it until end of turn. That creature gains haste until end of turn.

posted September 22, 2004 07:31 AM            

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posted September 22, 2004 08:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SquishySquid:
Ok I had a quick question. If I play a Assert Authority for only two mana becuase of the affinity can I copy that spell to an Isochron's Sceptor? Does that go for all the affinity spells?

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No. Isochron scepter requires an instant with converted mana cost of 2 or less. While Affinity affects the cost you can actually PLAY the card for, it does NOT change the CMC.

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posted September 22, 2004 10:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Iabtu:
Wrong, even if the ability says may you have to choose targets before the ability goes on the stack, you can't choose not to but an ability on the stack.

So each one will get targeted with modular and die.

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so, even if you choose not to transfer the modular token(s), you still have to choose a target? *incredulous stare*