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Author	Topic: Rulings Thread, part 26: Post ALL Rules Questions here!
GMontag Member	posted August 20, 2004 10:31 PM quote: Originally posted by BenBuhlar: The effect happens every turn it comes into play thus it will be sacrificed at the end of the turn it re-enters play. Hope this helps Actually, if it's slid out, it won't return until after that turn's end of triggers have gone on the stack and resolved. It won't have to be sacrificed until the end of the next turn.
BenBuhlar Member	posted August 20, 2004 10:35 PM quote: Originally posted by GMontag: *Actually, if it's slid out, it won't return until after that turn's end of triggers have gone on the stack and resolved. It won't have to be sacrificed until the end of the next* turn.** Actually that's what I meant to say. Just didn't come out right. Thanks for clarifing this __________________ sliver_king Trades http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/178827.html Her children are ever part of her" Sliver Queen
derekthered08 Member	posted August 21, 2004 10:49 PM Ahhh, Humility. My friend has a Blastoderm in play enchanted with Rancor. I have a Humility in play. I argue that it's a 1/1, while he says that it's a 3/1. Who's right? And also, could someone post some D'Angelo-esque rulings for Humility about the whole layers thing? Edit: It doesn't matter anymore which one came into play first right? Edit2: What about morphs? Can he lay down a face down creature, and if he can, can he turn it face up? [Edited 2 times, lastly by derekthered08 on August 21, 2004]
nderdog Moderator	posted August 21, 2004 10:58 PM quote: Originally posted by derekthered08: Ahhh, Humility. My friend has a Blastoderm in play enchanted with Rancor. I have a Humility in play. I argue that it's a 1/1, while he says that it's a 3/1. Who's right? And also, could someone post some D'Angelo-esque rulings for Humility about the whole layers thing? Edit: It doesn't matter anymore which one came into play first right? Edit2: What about morphs? Can he lay down a face down creature, and if he can, can he turn it face up? Here's the closest I can come to the Rancor issue: Q: If my friend plays Cover of Darkness to give his Zombies fear, then I play Humility, would the Zombies lose fear? A: Yes, they would. The effects apply in timestamp order, the order the permanents that generate them came into play. Since Humility is the last effect, it removes all abilities from the creatures, including the fear given by Cover of Darkness. Given that, you are right, since the Rancor was already in play. For more than you ever wanted to know about Humility, check here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/satschoolarchive&term=humility __________________ Warning! Check this link for info on a nasty impersonator before trading! Brought to you by the Emergency BTA Broadcast Network. ---------- Ask me about getting FREE Magic cards! There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!
-Lunch_Box- Member	posted August 21, 2004 11:15 PM With Thought Courier you draw a card and then discard a card. If you use something like Words of Wind do you still have to discard a card since you never draw a card in the first place? [Edited 1 times, lastly by -Lunch_Box- on August 21, 2004]
Kage Member	posted August 22, 2004 08:18 AM Yes, because Words of Wind only replaces the "draw a card" part of Thought Courier. __________________
yakusoku Member	posted August 22, 2004 01:28 PM Let's say that my opponent has four islands out and I've just played Temporal Fissure (after playing 7 other spells) and I fear a counter like Discombobulate spoiling my plans to "bounce" all his lands. How do the timing and targetting work with the copies? After the triggered ability of Storm resolves, do I place each copy of Temporal Fissure on the stack and choose targets for each? If so, it would seem that I could have two Temporal Fissures targetting each of his four islands without fear of a counter or needing to target any of my permanents. Is this correct?
chaos021 Member	posted August 22, 2004 10:48 PM You are correct sir. Whenever a spell goes onto the stack, you have to announce targets. __________________ "Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon Won't you be my tool?
Iabtu Member	posted August 23, 2004 06:43 AM quote: Originally posted by derekthered08: Ahhh, Humility.My friend has a Blastoderm in play enchanted with Rancor. I have a Humility in play. I argue that it's a 1/1, while he says that it's a 3/1. Who's right? Crown of the Ages, Enchant Alteration, Replinish? Or was Rancor played after Humility hit? quote: And also, could someone post some D'Angelo-esque rulings for Humility about the whole layers thing? Humility Color: White Type: Enchantment Cost: 2WW Sets: TE(R) Text(TE+errata): All creatures lose all abilities and are 1/1. [Oracle 1999/11/01] * Removes all creature abilities. This includes mana abilities, such as with Llanowar Elves. Animated lands lose the ability to tap for mana. [bethmo 1997/10/14] * Will not remove card text which defines characteristics of the card which are not normally done in the text, such as "This card is a Wall" or "This card is red." These things are descriptive text and not abilities. [bethmo 1997/10/23] (Older cards used to say "Counts as a Wall" and fall under this ruling.) * Does remove abilities from a creature entering play before any "comes into play" abilities can trigger. [D'Angelo 1999/06/01] * When figuring out your creatures' abilities and power/toughness, apply all card effects in the order they entered play. Built-in abilities of a creature and any counters on the creature are applied first. Then, you apply all external effects in the order they entered play. The result of this is that any effects on the creatures' abilities or power/toughness in play before Humility enters play are completely overridden. But that any played after Humility enters play stay. [D'Angelo 1997/12/01] For example, a Crusade is in play, then a Humility enters play. All your white creatures are 1/1. If Humility enters play, then Crusade, your white creatures are 2/2 (they become 1/1 then get +1/+1 in that order). quote: Edit: It doesn't matter anymore which one came into play first right? In this situation it does, if Rancor was already in play first the creature will be a 1/1, if Rancor was played afterwards it will be a 3/1. quote: Edit2: What about morphs? Can he lay down a face down creature, and if he can, can he turn it face up? You can still play morphs face down, and they will become 1/1's with no abilities so they won't be able to be morphed. __________________ "In an ominous note for American players there were no Amercians in the Top 8 at the end of the day. The highest finish by an American player was eleventh place by the relatively unknown Michael Stranc." - Sideboard Online, PT Kobe Day One Wrap-up Pro player, lvl 2 judge, TO, I even have a fan club.
LennyButtacup Member	posted August 23, 2004 11:35 PM back to humility, would a modular creature, lets say ravager, with 6 counters on it be a 6/6 or a 1/1? or would it be the same as the order of applying the enchantments, if the counters were there first he's a 1/1, but gains from each additional counter? or would it always remain a 1/1? __________________ Wizards fought over the stone to exploit its power. Goblins fight over it because it's shiny. Go here and sign up: http://www.cardshark.com/default.asp?referral=cade187&source=link
GMontag Member	posted August 24, 2004 03:16 AM quote: Originally posted by LennyButtacup: back to humility, would a modular creature, lets say ravager, with 6 counters on it be a 6/6 or a 1/1? or would it be the same as the order of applying the enchantments, if the counters were there first he's a 1/1, but gains from each additional counter? or would it always remain a 1/1? Counters are always applied before any other power and toughness changing effects (other than characteristic setting effects), so the ravager would always be a 1/1 unless it had something other than just counters on it.
mulder Member	posted August 24, 2004 08:15 AM I have a Smokestack with two counters in play and a Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. My opponent has two Sarcomancies in play and two tokens and one land. What happens during his upkeep? If he sacs the tokens does he still get damage from the sarcomancies?
RiCeOwNaGe Member	posted August 24, 2004 08:24 AM quote: Originally posted by mulder: I have a Smokestack with two counters in play and a Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. My opponent has two Sarcomancies in play and two tokens and one land. What happens during his upkeep? If he sacs the tokens does he still get damage from the sarcomancies? When multiple things trigger at the upkeep, they are stacked in APNAP (Active player, Non active player) order. Your opponent first chooses his upkeep triggers to stack and than you choose yours. Which means that your upkeep triggers resolve first in the order you stacked them and than the AP's triggers resolve. In this case since no matter what is chosen the Smokestack will resolve before the Sarcomancy trigger, your friend will take 2 damage. The best way to stack the triggers would be to stack the Pendrell Vale last so that he will have to pay than sac. [EDIT] - Made it clearer... I think __________________ [ CONTACT ] Email: Riceownage@yahoo.com AIM: RiCeOwNaGeMOTL One of MOTL's members. [Edited 1 times, lastly by RiCeOwNaGe on August 24, 2004]
mulder Member	posted August 24, 2004 09:00 AM Isn't the Tabernacle erratad so the creatures gain the ability?
axn Member	posted August 24, 2004 09:32 AM tabernacle does indeed give the ability to the creature in this case, it's not relevant at the beginning of upkeep, if the condition (no zombies in play) is not met, sarcomancy's ability will not trigger you resolve the smokestacks first, then the tabernacle triggers so most likely he'll let the zombies go
RiCeOwNaGe Member	posted August 24, 2004 11:09 AM quote: Originally posted by mulder: Isn't the Tabernacle erratad so the creatures gain the ability? Oops In that case, your opponent can stack his Sarcomancy last so that it will resolve first, see 2 zombie tokens and not take any damage. Than have the Pendrell triggers resolve. So if he does sac the tokens to the smokestack he will not take 2 damage this turn. __________________ [ CONTACT ] Email: Riceownage@yahoo.com AIM: RiCeOwNaGeMOTL One of MOTL's members.
orcishartillery Member	posted August 24, 2004 11:25 AM quote: Originally posted by RiCeOwNaGe: In this case since no matter what is chosen the Smokestack will resolve before the Sarcomancy trigger, your friend will take 2 damage. That is not correct. Sarcomancy has a conditional trigger: "At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are no Zombies in play, Sarcomancy deals 1 damage to you." The condition is checked both when the trigger would be placed on the stack and when it would resolve. Because there are Zombies in play when the player's upkeep begins, the Sarcomancy triggers will not even go on the stack.
RiCeOwNaGe Member	posted August 24, 2004 11:34 AM quote: Originally posted by orcishartillery: That is not correct. Sarcomancy has a conditional trigger: "At the beginning of your upkeep, [b]if there are no Zombies in play, Sarcomancy deals 1 damage to you." The condition is checked both when the trigger would be placed on the stack and when it would resolve. Because there are Zombies in play when the player's upkeep begins, the Sarcomancy triggers will not even go on the stack.[/B] I see, thanks for clearing that up. I haven't read any of these cards for years __________________ [ CONTACT ] Email: Riceownage@yahoo.com AIM: RiCeOwNaGeMOTL One of MOTL's members.
mir_vana Member	posted August 25, 2004 06:39 AM Ok, I may sound like a total dolt, but let's say I have a Daring Apprentice from Mirage and one from 8th. Can I use the one from Mirage in T2 'cuz it was reprinted? Or does it have to be in 8th? __________________ You might leave here, Chenndra, should another take your place... --Hell's Caretaker Crucible of Worlds Count: 02 I only play Magic, other games are teh suck. Yargh! "What an excellent day for an exorcism."-Pazuzu, Demon of the Winds , *The Exorcist*
Scopes13mtg Member	posted August 25, 2004 07:41 AM quote: Originally posted by mir_vana: Ok, I may sound like a total dolt, but let's say I have a Daring Apprentice from Mirage and one from 8th. Can I use the one from Mirage in T2 'cuz it was reprinted? Or does it have to be in 8th? You can use it, and please do, as WB is yuck-eww. __________________ "Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon Playing a whiney scrub?Link 'em
mir_vana Member	posted August 25, 2004 10:01 AM quote: Originally posted by Scopes13mtg: You can use it, and please do, as WB is yuck-eww. Hey that rhymed! __________________ You might leave here, Chenndra, should another take your place... --Hell's Caretaker Crucible of Worlds Count: 02 I only play Magic, other games are teh suck. Yargh! "What an excellent day for an exorcism."-Pazuzu, Demon of the Winds , *The Exorcist*
xingchen Member	posted August 26, 2004 03:31 PM To counter Fire/Ice with Chalice of the Void does it need 2 or 4 counters? Thanks
nderdog Moderator	posted August 26, 2004 04:43 PM quote: Originally posted by xingchen: To counter Fire/Ice with Chalice of the Void does it need 2 or 4 counters? Thanks It would take 2 counters. See the below discussion from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/satschoolarchive&term=fire/ice for more information "Q: If I play Void and choose 2, will my opponent have to discard Fire/Ice? A: Yes, he will. Effects that ask if a split card’s characteristic (such as converted mana cost) matches a specific value, the answer is “yes” if either of the sides match the value. Since both sides of Fire/Ice have a converted mana cost of 2, your opponent must discard it. Likewise, Void for 1 will cause the player to discard Assault/Battery, since one of the sides has a converted mana cost of 1. This can be found in rule 505.6 in the Comprehensive Rulebook. " __________________ Warning! Check this link for info on a nasty impersonator before trading! Brought to you by the Emergency BTA Broadcast Network. ---------- Ask me about getting FREE Magic cards! There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here! [Edited 1 times, lastly by nderdog on August 26, 2004]
mir_vana Member	posted August 27, 2004 10:00 AM You can only imprint one side of a split card-such as Fire\Ice on Isochron Scepter, right? __________________ You might leave here, Chenndra, should another take your place... --Hell's Caretaker Crucible of Worlds Count: 02 I only play Magic, other games are teh suck. Yargh! "What an excellent day for an exorcism."-Pazuzu, Demon of the Winds , *The Exorcist*
axn Member	posted August 27, 2004 10:07 AM only if you take a pair of scissors and cut it into two you imprint the whole card, and choose which side to play when the scepter ability resolves

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