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Author Topic:   Rulings Thread Part 46 (ALL rules-related questions go HERE!)
yakusoku
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posted August 20, 2010 10:28 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for yakusoku Click Here to Email yakusoku Send a private message to yakusoku Click to send yakusoku an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
dying2live2k2:

We've been having a debate at my house over Mishra, Artificer Prodigy. I'm fairly certain that I am correct, but would someone please explain how exactly this card works? Using an example would be great. Thanks.


I'm not sure exactly what you're having trouble with. Here's where it would help if you gave an example yourself. It's difficult to give an example to cover everything, rather than just address your specific concern, however...

Let's say you control Mishra. In your graveyard is a Pyrite Spellbomb. In your hand are two Izzet Signets, another Pyrite Spellbomb, and a Masticore.

It is your turn and you first cast the Pyrite Spellbomb in your hand. You may search your graveyard, hand, or library for a card with the same name, so you choose the Pyrite Spellbomb in your graveyard and put it onto the battlefield. Then the Pyrite Spellbomb you just cast resolves; you have two on the battlefield. Next, you cast an Izzet Signet. You search your hand for the second Izzet Signet and put that on the battlefield. The first Signet resolves and you have two Izzet Signets on the battlefield. Finally, you cast Masticore and search your library for a second Masticore and put it on the battlefield.

What are the two interpretations for how this card works?

quote:
EdMan218:

If I have Serum Powder in my opening hand, and I use it to draw 7 new cards, one of which is a Leyline, can I still play the Leyline? Are these 7 new cards still considered my opening hand?


Yes and yes.

First, let's look at the wording:

quote:
Serum Powder

Any time you could mulligan and Serum Powder is in your hand, you may exile all the cards from your hand, then draw that many cards. (You can do this in addition to taking mulligans.)


Then the comprehensive rules:

quote:
CR:

103. Starting the Game

103.4. A player who is dissatisfied with his or her initial hand may take a mulligan...

103.4a If an effect allows a player to perform an action "any time [that player] could mulligan," the player may perform that action at a time he or she would declare whether or not he or she will take a mulligan...

103.5. Once all players have kept their opening hands, if any cards in the starting player's hand allow that player to begin the game with those cards on the battlefield, he or she may put any or all of them onto the battlefield. Then each other player in turn order may do the same.


So, you decide if you take any mulligans and at this time, this includes using Serum Powder and after you've taken all your mulligans, if your opening hand contains a Leyline, you may put it onto the battlefield.

 
iccarus
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posted August 20, 2010 10:29 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for iccarus Click Here to Email iccarus Send a private message to iccarus Click to send iccarus an Instant MessageVisit iccarus's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View iccarus's Have/Want ListView iccarus's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by dying2live2k2:
We've been having a debate at my house over Mishra, Artificer Prodigy. I'm fairly certain that I am correct, but would someone please explain how exactly this card works? Using an example would be great. Thanks.

Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Whenever you cast an artifact spell, you may search your graveyard, hand, and/or library for a card with the same name as that spell and put it onto the battlefield. If you search your library this way, shuffle it.


When you cast an artifact spell, you get to search for a duplicate copy of that artifact from the noted zones and put it directly onto the battlefield.

So, say you cast a Pyrite Spellbomb. While it is still on the stack, you would search the noted zones for another one and then put it directly onto the battlefield. You then finish resolving the original spellbomb that you cast.

EDIT: beaten by yakusoku, and he used the same artifact


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[Edited 1 times, lastly by iccarus on August 20, 2010]

 
dying2live2k2
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posted August 20, 2010 10:54 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for dying2live2k2 Send a private message to dying2live2k2 Click to send dying2live2k2 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View dying2live2k2's Have/Want ListView dying2live2k2's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by yakusoku:
I'm not sure exactly what you're having trouble with. Here's where it would help if you gave an example yourself. It's difficult to give an example to cover everything, rather than just address your specific concern, however...

Let's say you control Mishra. In your graveyard is a Pyrite Spellbomb. In your hand are two Izzet Signets, another Pyrite Spellbomb, and a Masticore.

It is your turn and you first cast the Pyrite Spellbomb in your hand. You may search your graveyard, hand, or library for a card with the same name, so you choose the Pyrite Spellbomb in your graveyard and put it onto the battlefield. Then the Pyrite Spellbomb you just cast resolves; you have two on the battlefield. Next, you cast an Izzet Signet. You search your hand for the second Izzet Signet and put that on the battlefield. The first Signet resolves and you have two Izzet Signets on the battlefield. Finally, you cast Masticore and search your library for a second Masticore and put it on the battlefield.

What are the two interpretations for how this card works?


Let's assume you have Mishra in play and your hand consist of Voltaic Key, another Voltaic Key, Darksteel Colossus, AEther Spellbomb, and a Dimir Signet. Your Library also has a another Voltaic Key and so does your graveyard. He was under the impression that once you play the Voltaic Key from your hand you could then play one from each location. So he plays the Voltaic Key from his hand and then plays the other one from his hand as well as the one from his graveyard and from his Library. Basically playing the other three for free off of the first one being played.

But thanks alot for clearing this up for us!

 
thror
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posted August 20, 2010 11:12 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
The big thing to note is the word 'a' in mishra's wording. "you may search your graveyard, hand, and/or library for a card with the same name as that spell and put it onto the battlefield" - this means it is singular. You may search each zone, but you can only find a single duplicate.
 
dying2live2k2
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posted August 20, 2010 12:26 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for dying2live2k2 Send a private message to dying2live2k2 Click to send dying2live2k2 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View dying2live2k2's Have/Want ListView dying2live2k2's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
The big thing to note is the word 'a' in mishra's wording. "you may search your graveyard, hand, and/or library for a card with the same name as that spell and put it onto the battlefield" - this means it is singular. You may search each zone, but you can only find a single duplicate.

Yeah, that was my argument.

 
Myy
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posted August 25, 2010 01:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Myy Click Here to Email Myy Send a private message to Myy Click to send Myy an Instant MessageVisit Myy's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Myy's Have/Want ListView Myy's Have/Want List
What happens if I play Ardent Plea and cascade into Serra Avenger on my second turn?
 
thror
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posted August 25, 2010 02:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
Ardent Plea says you may Cast the spell. Serra Avengers rules say you Can't. Can't wins, no avenger for you. Sorry.
 
yakusoku
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posted August 25, 2010 02:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for yakusoku Click Here to Email yakusoku Send a private message to yakusoku Click to send yakusoku an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Myy:
What happens if I play Ardent Plea and cascade into Serra Avenger on my second turn?

You reveal Serra Avenger and all other cards in your library above Serra Avenger and shuffle them ALL and put them on the bottom of your library in a random order. Cascade lets you cast the card without paying its mana cost. Serra Avenger says you can't cast it. "Can't" wins over "can" in Magic, so you're stuck. Aether Vial in Legacy gets around this restriction by simply putting Serra Avenger on the battlefield.

 
Myy
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posted August 25, 2010 02:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Myy Click Here to Email Myy Send a private message to Myy Click to send Myy an Instant MessageVisit Myy's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Myy's Have/Want ListView Myy's Have/Want List
Thanks guys, that's what I thought happened, but I figured I'd go ahead and ask.Maybe I was overlooking some other odd rule somewhere, but I guess not.
 
mastertransmuter
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posted August 25, 2010 06:13 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mastertransmuter Click Here to Email mastertransmuter Send a private message to mastertransmuter Click to send mastertransmuter an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
N00Blet question, just never played when this mechanic was around
Let's say I cast Humility on turn four. There were no creatures in play at this time. Then, next turn I cast a creature spell with morph. Can I still turn it face up?
 
WestWycke
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posted August 25, 2010 08:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WestWycke Click Here to Email WestWycke Send a private message to WestWycke Click to send WestWycke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yes, you can.

Humility removes all abilities from creatures, whether the creature came into play before or after Humility did.

However, you can flip up a morph because that is not a creature ability and therefore Humility can't remove it. Rather, that is a game rule that defines how face-down permanents are treated.

quote:
Originally posted by Comprehensive rules:
702.34d If you have priority, you may turn a face-down permanent you control face up. This is a special action; it doesn’t use the stack (see rule 115). To do this, show all players what the permanent’s morph cost would be if it were face up, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. (If the permanent wouldn’t have a morph cost if it were face up, it can’t be turned face up this way.) The morph effect on it ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don’t trigger when it’s turned face up and don’t have any effect, because the permanent has already entered the battlefield.

__________________
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iheartp9
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posted August 26, 2010 06:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iheartp9 Click Here to Email iheartp9 Send a private message to iheartp9 Click to send iheartp9 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View iheartp9's Have/Want ListView iheartp9's Have/Want List
Actually you can't turn the morph face up. Notice from the text you cited "if the card would not have a morph cost face up it can not be turned face up." Face up the morph creature has no abilities, even the morph line.
 
Meddling Pimp
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posted August 26, 2010 07:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Meddling Pimp Click Here to Email Meddling Pimp Send a private message to Meddling Pimp Click to send Meddling Pimp an Instant MessageVisit Meddling Pimp's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by iheartp9:
Actually you can't turn the morph face up. Notice from the text you cited "if the card would not have a morph cost face up it can not be turned face up." Face up the morph creature has no abilities, even the morph line.

Agreed. Morph is still a static ability, which is removed by Humility.

 
-PoX-
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posted August 28, 2010 06:29 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for -PoX- Click Here to Email -PoX- Send a private message to -PoX- Click to send -PoX- an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Can you get infinite flips with a Frenetic Efreet and win with Chance Encounter?

They seem to have removed the errata that prevented this. Does it work for real now?

 
Dragoneye
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posted August 28, 2010 11:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Dragoneye Click Here to Email Dragoneye Send a private message to Dragoneye Click to send Dragoneye an Instant MessageVisit Dragoneye's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hello! Not sure how the stack works in this case....

I have a Teferi Mage of Zhalfir and a Grindstone in play.
I use the grindstone to mil my opponent's library and then as a fast effect (because of Teferi) cast a Painter's Servant.

1. Would the combo work and place my opponents entire library in his graveyard (assuming he doesn't have a gaea's blessing or something)?

2. Since he can't cast instants (because of Teferi), if he had a permanent with the ability to deal damage, could he, as a fast effect, kill my Painters Servant and deny the full deck mil effect?

I'm just trying to figure out the best way to use those three cards without giving my opponent a chance to do anyhting.

Thanks for the help!

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Dragoneye on August 30, 2010]

 
Ncromonitor
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posted August 29, 2010 02:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Ncromonitor Send a private message to Ncromonitor Click to send Ncromonitor an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If you have 3 life against an opposing Manabarbs, can you dig yourself out with a Pulse of the Fields or does that not work at all?
 
yakusoku
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posted August 29, 2010 04:06 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for yakusoku Click Here to Email yakusoku Send a private message to yakusoku Click to send yakusoku an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:


Can you get infinite flips with a Frenetic Efreet and win with Chance Encounter?

They seem to have removed the errata that prevented this. Does it work for real now?


Yes, that works now. They changed the wording BACK to the old wording, so the abilities will still resolve even if Frenetic Efreet is not on the battlefield.

The previous wording stated that you flip a coin only if it was in play.

quote:
Originally posted by Dragoneye:
Hello! Not sure how the stack works in this case....

I have a Teferi Mage of Zhalfir and a Grindstone in play.
I use the grindstone to mil my opponent's library and then as a fast effect (because of Teferi) cast a Painter's Servant.

1. Would the combo work and place my opponents entire library in his graveyard (assuming he doesn't have a gaea's blessing or something)?


Yes, that would work, although there are no "fast effects" now. You can do what you want in one of two ways - you either play the ability and while the ability is on the stack, play Painter's Servant or you can play Painter's Servant, let that resolve, then play the Grindstone's ability.

quote:


2. Since he can't cast instants (because of Teferi), if he had a permanent with the ability to deal damage, could he, as a fast effect, kill my Painters Servant and deny the full deck mil effect?


Teferi prevents him from playing instants in response, but if he had a Pyrite Spellbomb, he could deal two damage to the Painter's Servant in response and Grindstone probably won't mill his entire deck.


quote:
Ncromonitor

If you have 3 life against an opposing Manabarbs, can you dig yourself out with a Pulse of the Fields or does that not work at all?


You can if you time it correctly. Tap three lands for 1WW and three triggers from Manabarbs will go on the stack. Respond to those triggers by casting Pulse of the Fields and you will gain 4 life, then take 3 damage.



[Edited 1 times, lastly by yakusoku on August 29, 2010]

 
Myy
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posted August 30, 2010 09:47 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Myy Click Here to Email Myy Send a private message to Myy Click to send Myy an Instant MessageVisit Myy's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Myy's Have/Want ListView Myy's Have/Want List
if I use chain of plasma, when my opponent copies the spell, does he control the ability?
 
thror
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posted August 30, 2010 10:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Myy:
if I use chain of plasma, when my opponent copies the spell, does he control the ability?

Not sure what 'ability' you are talking about. He copies the spell, which is put onto the stack and behaves just like any other spell.

 
Myy
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posted August 30, 2010 11:23 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Myy Click Here to Email Myy Send a private message to Myy Click to send Myy an Instant MessageVisit Myy's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Myy's Have/Want ListView Myy's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
Not sure what 'ability' you are talking about. He copies the spell, which is put onto the stack and behaves just like any other spell.

so he controls the copy right?

 
thror
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posted August 30, 2010 11:24 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
Correct.
 
JasonX-NL
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posted September 01, 2010 02:03 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for JasonX-NL Click Here to Email JasonX-NL Send a private message to JasonX-NL Click to send JasonX-NL an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If I have a Renegade Doppelganger in play and cast a Grixis Slavedriver, I can copy the Slavedriver. At end of turn, the Doppelganger will stop being him, but does that count as "leaves play" a.k.a. will I get a Zombie of my Doppelganger?

PS: If I Mind Control, does that creature 'enter the battlefield under my control' for the Doppelganger? I assume it's my language-interpretation between 'it has already entered it, it just becomes under my control' and 'it enters my side of the battlefield'. Thanks.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by JasonX-NL on September 01, 2010]

 
caquaa
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posted September 01, 2010 02:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
As long as that card is still in play, its not leaving play regardless of what it turns into, no token.

Also you're correct on mind control, its not coming into play, its already in play just changing control.

 
Schwingzilla
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posted September 01, 2010 03:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Schwingzilla Click Here to Email Schwingzilla Send a private message to Schwingzilla Click to send Schwingzilla an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Schwingzilla's Trade Auction or SaleView Schwingzilla's Trade Auction or Sale
Does Momentary Blink remove -1/-1 counters from a creature, namely ones with persist, such as Kitchen Finks?
 
Meddling Pimp
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posted September 01, 2010 03:20 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Meddling Pimp Click Here to Email Meddling Pimp Send a private message to Meddling Pimp Click to send Meddling Pimp an Instant MessageVisit Meddling Pimp's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Schwingzilla:
Does Momentary Blink remove -1/-1 counters from a creature, namely ones with persist, such as Kitchen Finks?

Yes

 

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