Dream job! On one of the teams that spends time playing magic durring the work hours :P

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Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue?

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Originally posted by Bugger:
Congratulations professor, you've stumbled upon the truly staggering discovery that companies exist to turn a profit!

I'm really getting sick of people ragging on wizards for being profit-oriented when that's the whole ****ing point of their enterprise. And hey, guess what? If magic isn't deemed profitable enough to keep around, hasbro will have it cancelled before you can say "black lotus". And then the precious secondary market is gone. So I for one am completely fine with wizards trying to compete for my dollar, because it keeps the game I love alive.

Yes, it's fun to go back to the bull**** standby of "those money-grubbers", but the world isn't that simple. In case it wasn't already obvious, not all of this rant is directed specifically at daner.

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Originally posted by daner:
It's all a quest for more money

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Don't you mean the "soych" for more money?

-Yogurt

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Originally posted by daner:
Sure as hell seems like it. If I struck a nerve take a chill pill and relax. I'd love to know when I said I hated WOTC for trying to turn a profit. And yes, I believe the world IS that simple in many ways....why do you think they keep making Halo's? COD's? Pirates of the Carribean movies? Etc etc. It's all a quest for more money, because the object of a business is to make money. You create something good and you keep going back to it. I never said I was against it as much as you seem to wanna think that. Might be a little un-original but nobody can argure about going with what works.

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In case you didn't notice, I did say that rant wasn't all oriented at you
I also never implied that you were displeased with the fact of wizard's profit (the snarky lines were in response to you only). Also, I'm amused by the irony of you of all people suggesting others relax on the internet

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Originally posted by -PoX-:
Wotc can control the prices of Legacy by printing snow duals and reprinting Wasteland and FoW.

It's coming. Sooner or later, it's coming. I know because I bought 1510 copies of Crystal Ball.

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
Man, M12 is looking terrible so far, to be honest. I guess they needed to reset the power level a bit.

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Originally posted by SageShadows:
No on the former, yes on the latter. They promised not to reprint any functional cards on the reserve list (IE cards that work the same way or have the same utility), but FoW and Wasteland aren't on the reserve list. Even though I have my playsets, I wouldn't mind them dropping just so Legacy can survive. Just not that much. I can deal with 35 dollar wastelands and 40 dollar FoWs.

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Man, I hope they reprint black lotus and moxes just so vintage can survive. Because I think the format is better than Legacy and every player deserves to play it. Oh, I don't have any, so I can deal with $1 Lotuses and moxes. Why pay $40 for an old FOW when you can pay $1 for a new mint one?

Aside, there are a few interesting new cards in M12. A 2cc clone variant, but I agree, mostly unexciting stuff. I was really hoping for a 3cc red walker and something other titan reprints. 6cc 6/6's are pretty hard for more interesting cards like Vengevine to fight. Standard is pretty bad when a card like Day of Judgment is unplayed.

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Originally posted by -PoX-:
Wotc can control the prices of Legacy by printing snow duals and reprinting Wasteland and FoW.

It's coming. Sooner or later, it's coming. I know because I bought 1510 copies of Crystal Ball.

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Originally posted by choco man:
Man, I hope they reprint black lotus and moxes just so vintage can survive. Because I think the format is better than Legacy and every player deserves to play it. Oh, I don't have any, so I can deal with $1 Lotuses and moxes. Why pay $40 for an old FOW when you can pay $1 for a new mint one?

Aside, there are a few interesting new cards in M12. A 2cc clone variant, but I agree, mostly unexciting stuff. I was really hoping for a 3cc red walker and something other titan reprints. 6cc 6/6's are pretty hard for more interesting cards like Vengevine to fight. Standard is pretty bad when a card like Day of Judgment is unplayed.

To me, that's a metric design and development should always strive for in Standard. Day of Judgment should always be played in some fashion.

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Snarkiness aside, FoW and Wasteland aren't on the reserve list. Moxen and Black Lotus are. FoW and Wasteland are fair game to be reprinted, and as much as you want to throw in hyperboles, they're not going to drop to one dollar.

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Originally posted by oneofchaos:
I hope snow duals never come. Strictly better duals isn't what legacy needs.

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
Why would that be "strictly better"?

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
Why would that be "strictly better"?

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Boreal Centaur (a frosty shade)
Into the North
Rimebound Dead
Scrying Sheets***

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Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue?

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Originally posted by joz:
Boreal Centaur (a frosty shade)
Into the North
Rimebound Dead
Scrying Sheets***

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Originally posted by SageShadows:
No on the former, yes on the latter. They promised not to reprint any functional cards on the reserve list (IE cards that work the same way or have the same utility), but FoW and Wasteland aren't on the reserve list.

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FoW, Wasteland and duals wouldn't break standard either. Fetch lands are better than duals in many ways especially with landfall.

Mental Misstep is sort of a competitor to FoW at least. And thanks to the five new fetches, people need to play even less duals in their decks.

Anyway, M12 looks pretty crappy so far. I do like that Illusion lord though. That's the kind of card that only gets better with time. Took only 16 years for Lord of Atlantis to get big, let's see how long this one takes!

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Originally posted by SageShadows:
You also messed up parodying my post. "Oh, I don't have any, so I can deal with $1 Lotuses and moxes." =/= "Even though I have my playsets"

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No, I didn't mess up. I read that you have your playsets. I still wrote that I have no lotus or moxen because I really don't.

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Originally posted by -PoX-:
And I love Angelic Destiny. Sadly, it's probably only that kind of annoying card that sucks in constructed yet completely wrecks limited, like Drana or Contagion Engine.[/B]

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Originally posted by caquaa:
They can print snow duals because they are not functionally identical. Snow cards function differently so its a way they could get around their own rules. Hence juzam and plague sliver, very different cards... right....
If they were to duals and just change the names, then those would be functional reprints. Changing anything about them gives them the green light, but I think we'll see rav dual reprints before we ever see snow duals.

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Originally posted by oneofchaos:
being able to play snow things where normal duals couldnt

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Originally posted by joz:
Boreal Centaur (a frosty shade), etc

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It also makes Icequake and Legions of Lim-Dul's better against you. That doesn't make snow-duals strictly better, that makes it an opinion. It doesn't do anything better on it's own, like the difference between Salt Marsh and the original dual Underground Sea.

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Originally posted by caquaa:
Hence juzam and plague sliver, very different cards... right....

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Snow duals are probably 'functionally close enough to' real duals that they can't go there. It is nowhere near like reprinting Survival as a creature, that has to tap and doesn't work the turn it ETB. These are still lands that provide two colors, have the 5 lands types, and don't ETB tapped.
Plague Sliver is extremely different than Juzam, i'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or what. Having multiple plagues in play is more hurtful than multiple djinn (especially if you are for some reason playing it in slivers), and plague can be played against a whole creature type. Not always important since they're not really played but that's definitely enough of a difference to reprint it, as opposed to the snowduals being minimally different.

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Originally posted by -PoX-:
FoW wouldn't break standard either. Fetch lands are better than duals in many ways especially with landfall

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what if snow duals were legendary? So you could only have one of each one in play on your side of the board.

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Originally posted by oneofchaos:
Snow duals would be functionally superior

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and the reserve list only says functionally identical. Snow duals would be perfectly legal.

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
Snow duals are probably 'functionally close enough to' real duals that they can't go there.

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Functionally identical is off limits, but thats it. Its why this came up. Forget whom, but someone from wotc asked on twitter (and likely elsewhere) about what people would think.

You think juzam and plague sliver are different yet duals and snow duals would be the same? heh.

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Originally posted by bigbob585:
what if snow duals were legendary? So you could only have one of each one in play...

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Originally posted by Sovarius:

Why is it better?

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Fetches are better than duals because of duals. It means that a fetch is actually any color of mana. Plus it can't be wastelanded, which rules. If all you have in your hands are fetch lands, you can still get to 2-3 mana even if your opponent is playing land destruction.
Another thing is that it thins your deck of a card and lets you shuffle your library for things like brainstorm, Jace and sylvan library.
And it grows a bunch of strong creatures: Terravore, KoTr, geopede...Not to mention you can reuse fetches with Life from the Loam and Crucible of worlds to get more lands.

Fetch lands are RAD

FoW wouldn't make everyone play blue. It's definitely not as strong as Jace in a Standard environment.
FoW just isn't broken. Same goes with Wasteland. It might not even say any widespread play in Standard if it gets reprinted.

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Originally posted by bigbob585:

what if snow duals were legendary?

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
It also makes Icequake and Legions of Lim-Dul's better against you. That doesn't make snow-duals strictly better, that makes it an opinion. It doesn't do anything better on it's own, like the difference between Salt Marsh and the original dual Underground Sea.

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Originally posted by rats60:
That is what make duals superior and other nonshockland duals unplayable crap.

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