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Author Topic:   The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 50: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
caquaa
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posted March 09, 2012 01:20 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Schwingzilla:
1) Is it sufficient to say "Loop until Gaea's Blessing is the only card in my library"
2) Since people are gonna be all lame about 1), is it really stalling to actually try this as fast as I can? Shuffle, flip over the top 45 cards, see if there's a Gaea's Blessing. If there is, repeat. It would probably only take 15 seconds each time, and it is my goal and sort of advances my agenda to win the game.

1) no, the event of shuffling is random
2) yes, it is stalling since you can't guarantee the result of a random event


why the gaea's blessing any how? can't you just win with an empty library?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by caquaa on March 09, 2012]

 
Schwingzilla
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posted March 09, 2012 01:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Schwingzilla Click Here to Email Schwingzilla Send a private message to Schwingzilla Click to send Schwingzilla an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Schwingzilla's Trade Auction or SaleView Schwingzilla's Trade Auction or Sale
The Gaea's Blessing was there for some reason. Probably because it was actually a deck that won through Thermopod, Narcomoeba, Gaea's Blessing, and Scorched Rusalka. I think that was the more streamlined version.

So would that version be considered stalling? I'm going as fast as I can, and dealing about 1 point of damage to my opponent each time I shuffle.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Schwingzilla on March 09, 2012]

 
Sovarius
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posted March 10, 2012 08:50 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
If you consistently did one point of damage you should have no problem killing them quickly, but without producing an effect that changes the state of them each time it's still stalling. You might get away with it for 5 minutes, but that should be about it.
 
skizzikmonger
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posted March 10, 2012 05:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If I have a Strangleroot Geist with a +1/+1 counter on it, and my opponent casts Black Sun's Zenith for 2 or more, will my Geist come back from the dead?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by skizzikmonger on March 10, 2012]
 
thror
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posted March 10, 2012 05:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
If I have a Strangleroot Geist with a +1/+1 counter on it, and my opponent casts Black Sun's Zenith for 2 or more, will my Geist come back from the dead?

No, it will not. When state based actions are checked, the giest has both a +1/+1 counter and some number of -1/-1 counters, resulting in it being put into your graveyard without undying triggering.

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Devonin
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posted March 10, 2012 07:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
No, it will not. When state based actions are checked, the giest has both a +1/+1 counter and some number of -1/-1 counters, resulting in it being put into your graveyard without undying triggering.


If you're wondering specifically why:

From the comprehensive rules:

121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704.

Basically, the annihilation of matching +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters happens simultaneously with the check to see if something has a toughness of 0 or less.

So it is moved to the graveyard -at the same time- as the +1/+1 counter comes off. Since there is a trigger caused by it going to the graveyard, the game uses the last known info to decide how to resolve the trigger, which was when the creature still had both the +1/+1 and -1/-1 counter on it, so no Undying.

 
kirkusjones
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posted March 11, 2012 08:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for kirkusjones Click Here to Email kirkusjones Send a private message to kirkusjones Click to send kirkusjones an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
How does the static ability of creakwood liege interact with sigil captain's triggered ability when creakwood liege puts a worm token into play?

Do the tokens enter the battlefield, get "seen" as 1/1's by Sigil Captain and get the two +1/+1 counters, or do they enter as 3/3s based on the liege's static buff ability?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by kirkusjones on March 11, 2012]

 
farsk8dutch
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posted March 11, 2012 09:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for farsk8dutch Click Here to Email farsk8dutch Send a private message to farsk8dutch Click to send farsk8dutch an Instant MessageVisit farsk8dutch's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View farsk8dutch's Have/Want ListView farsk8dutch's Have/Want List
My opponent activates Aether Vial, I Smash to Smithereens.
Does his creature still come into play?

I'm at 3 life and my opponent is at 1. He casts Lightning Helix and I respond with Fireblast. Tie game?

Am I allowed to hold a land in my hand as to bluff an opponent in to thinking I can't pay the extra cost of Daze/Spell Pierce (assuming it is my turn) and play the land after?

 
LemonMeringue
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posted March 11, 2012 11:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LemonMeringue Click Here to Email LemonMeringue Send a private message to LemonMeringue Click to send LemonMeringue an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or SaleView LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or Sale
Sigil captain only puts the counters on if it's a 1/1, so if creakwood liege is in play, the 1/1s it makes won't get +1/+1 counters. The creatures enter the battlefield as 1/1s, but since the sigil captain only puts counters on them IF they are 1/1s, it won't do anything since they are 3/3s by the time the ability resolves.

Aether vial still works
Fireblast wins
You can hold the land, but you can't play lands at instant speed so you won't be able to pay for it.

 
orcishartillery
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posted March 12, 2012 12:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for orcishartillery Send a private message to orcishartillery Click to send orcishartillery an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LemonMeringue:
Sigil captain only puts the counters on if it's a 1/1, so if creakwood liege is in play, the 1/1s it makes won't get +1/+1 counters. The creatures enter the battlefield as 1/1s, but since the sigil captain only puts counters on them IF they are 1/1s, it won't do anything since they are 3/3s by the time the ability resolves.

That is not quite correct. The Worm tokens created by Creakwood Liege enter the battlefield as 3/3 creatures. There is no time that they are on the battlefield as 1/1 creatures. Sigil Captain's ability will never trigger in the first place.
 
LemonMeringue
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posted March 12, 2012 01:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LemonMeringue Click Here to Email LemonMeringue Send a private message to LemonMeringue Click to send LemonMeringue an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or SaleView LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or Sale
Hmm my bad, thanks for the correction.
 
Sovarius
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posted March 13, 2012 11:57 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by farsk8dutch:
My opponent activates Aether Vial, I Smash to Smithereens.
Does his creature still come into play?

I'm at 3 life and my opponent is at 1. He casts Lightning Helix and I respond with Fireblast. Tie game?


So you understand why;
When Vial is activated, the ability goes on the stack. Vial does not have to be there for the ability to continue resolving as normal, it can't be countered that way.

Losing (in this case having 0 or less life) is a state-based action. It does not go on the stack and happens "faster" than you can respond to, basically. So when the opponent is hit with the Fireblast their spell will never land, not simultaneously for a draw, and not afterwards either (which matters in multiplayer).

 
farsk8dutch
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posted March 13, 2012 12:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for farsk8dutch Click Here to Email farsk8dutch Send a private message to farsk8dutch Click to send farsk8dutch an Instant MessageVisit farsk8dutch's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View farsk8dutch's Have/Want ListView farsk8dutch's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Sovarius:
So you understand why;
When Vial is activated, the ability goes on the stack. Vial does not have to be there for the ability to continue resolving as normal, it can't be countered that way.

I was thinking that because there is no artifact in play associated with the ability that it would not work.

IIRC, a similar scenario being described but having the opposite effect. Is there anything like that, maybe involving creatures, or am I thinking of older rulings, or neither?

====================

quote:
Originally posted by Sovarius:
Losing (in this case having 0 or less life) is a state-based action. It does not go on the stack and happens "faster" than you can respond to, basically. So when the opponent is hit with the Fireblast their spell will never land, not simultaneously for a draw, and not afterwards either (which matters in multiplayer).

Crystal. Thank you.

 
caquaa
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posted March 13, 2012 01:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by farsk8dutch:
I was thinking that because there is no artifact in play associated with the ability that it would not work.

IIRC, a similar scenario being described but having the opposite effect. Is there anything like that, maybe involving creatures, or am I thinking of older rulings, or neither?


When the ability resolves, it will use last known information about the aether vial. Whatever counters were on it when the ability resolves is what you'll get to use. If you're looking for a similar example, there is a card that has this rule built into the way it works: engineered explosives.

 
evilempire22
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posted March 13, 2012 05:31 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for evilempire22 Click Here to Email evilempire22 Send a private message to evilempire22 Click to send evilempire22 an Instant MessageVisit evilempire22's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View evilempire22's Have/Want ListView evilempire22's Have/Want List
Does Sen Triplets let me play permanents from the opponents hand, and do they enter the battlefield under my control?

--Evil

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JackSpade
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posted March 13, 2012 06:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JackSpade Click Here to Email JackSpade Send a private message to JackSpade Click to send JackSpade an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by evilempire22:
Does Sen Triplets let me play permanents from the opponents hand, and do they enter the battlefield under my control?

--Evil


Yes. But you are still restricted to one land per turn.

Read the Gatherer rulings if you want more info:

http://classic.magictraders.com/cgi-bin/autocard.cgi?Sen%20Triplets

 
rockondon
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posted March 15, 2012 09:27 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for rockondon Click Here to Email rockondon Send a private message to rockondon Click to send rockondon an Instant MessageVisit rockondon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rockondon's Have/Want ListView rockondon's Have/Want List
while playing edh last night I had karn, silver golem and mycosynth lattice in play. My opponent had mikaeus, the unhallowed and heartless summnoning in play.
I used karn to turn his lands into creatures, killing them.
Would mikaeus bring them back?

Next EDH question....
Player A has their general that dies and wants to put it in his command zone. Player B and player C both have mimic vat and both want to imprint it. What happens?

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TimeBeing
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posted March 15, 2012 09:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rockondon:
while playing edh last night I had karn, silver golem and mycosynth lattice in play. My opponent had mikaeus, the unhallowed and heartless summnoning in play.
I used karn to turn his lands into creatures, killing them.
Would mikaeus bring them back?

Next EDH question....
Player A has their general that dies and wants to put it in his command zone. Player B and player C both have mimic vat and both want to imprint it. What happens?



Yes the lands will come back with a +1/+1 counter.

The card will go to the command zone
"If a Commander would be put into a graveyard or exile from anywhere, its owner may choose to move it to the command zone instead."

 
rockondon
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posted March 15, 2012 10:44 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for rockondon Click Here to Email rockondon Send a private message to rockondon Click to send rockondon an Instant MessageVisit rockondon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rockondon's Have/Want ListView rockondon's Have/Want List
^ cool. Thank you.

Also, if person A's creature was not his general and it dies and goes to the grave, and both player B and C have mimic vats, which one of them gets to imprint it?

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JackSpade
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posted March 15, 2012 11:01 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for JackSpade Click Here to Email JackSpade Send a private message to JackSpade Click to send JackSpade an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rockondon:
^ cool. Thank you.

Also, if person A's creature was not his general and it dies and goes to the grave, and both player B and C have mimic vats, which one of them gets to imprint it?


Depends on whos turn it is.
The person whos turn it is gets priority first so their mimic vat trigger, if they had one, would go on the stack first. Then the next person to their left would get priority and their mimic vat trigger, if they had one, would go on the stack and so forth around the table. After all the triggers are on the stack and they and everyone passes priority they would resolve with the last one put on the stack resolving first and then to the second to last one and so on.

To simplify if its players A B and C and its As turn and his creature dies, then Bs trigger goes on the stack followed by Cs trigger. Cs trigger will resolve first so he gets the creature under his mimic vat.
However, lets say its during player Cs turn that player As creature dies, then Cs trigger goes on the stack first, Bs last and Bs trigger resolves first. So in that case B would get the creature under his vat.



[Edited 1 times, lastly by JackSpade on March 15, 2012]

 
Soldier Boi
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posted March 15, 2012 11:44 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Soldier Boi Click Here to Email Soldier Boi Send a private message to Soldier Boi Click to send Soldier Boi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If I Cascade into Boom/Bust will it cast and do I get to choose which side to cast?
 
AlmostGrown
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posted March 15, 2012 12:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for AlmostGrown Click Here to Email AlmostGrown Send a private message to AlmostGrown Click to send AlmostGrown an Instant MessageVisit AlmostGrown's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View AlmostGrown's Have/Want ListView AlmostGrown's Have/Want List
Yes

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VJames83
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posted March 15, 2012 06:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for VJames83 Click Here to Email VJames83 Send a private message to VJames83 Click to send VJames83 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View VJames83's Have/Want ListView VJames83's Have/Want List
So I have an Aether Vial with 2 counters in play.

My opponent cracks a fetch, I activate Vial in response, playing Leonin Arbiter. Does he have to pay 2 mana to search his library?

 
JackSpade
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posted March 15, 2012 06:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JackSpade Click Here to Email JackSpade Send a private message to JackSpade Click to send JackSpade an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by VJames83:
So I have an Aether Vial with 2 counters in play.

My opponent cracks a fetch, I activate Vial in response, playing Leonin Arbiter. Does he have to pay 2 mana to search his library?


Yes, he has 2 pay mana to search.

 
Timmy!
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posted March 16, 2012 11:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Timmy! Click Here to Email Timmy! Send a private message to Timmy! Click to send Timmy! an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Timmy!'s Have/Want ListView Timmy!'s Have/Want List
So I am wondering if this combo is legit because I lost two in a row to it.

My opponent has a Leyline of the Void in play as well as a Helm of Obedience. He activates the Helm for only 1, but since Leyline reads that if cards would enter the GY they would become exiled instead. ((ergo never hitting the GY)) Helm reads to repeat the process of putting the top card into your GY until X is reached. Since one card never actually hits the GY, the Helm basically just instantly decks you.

Is that REALLY possible? It doesn't make sense that two cards could make such a simple and super cheesy combo. If this really is the case, then I would like to figure out how to get this super cheese errataed so that a Helm for 1 is just that, a Helm for 1. How can I go about trying to get this proposed to be fixed?

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