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Author Topic:   The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 50: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
thror
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posted December 30, 2011 02:20 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28790499/January_2012_IPG_Revisio ns?sdb=1

But still, nothing changes until January. So for tonight, he is required to inform his opponents of mandatory triggers.
__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself


[Edited 1 times, lastly by thror on December 30, 2011]

 
oneofchaos
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posted December 30, 2011 10:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
So next week if he forgets, he doesn't get the counter?
 
thror
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posted December 30, 2011 11:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
So next week if he forgets, he doesn't get the counter?

Depends on what the IPG says. The previous version that was taken down had different rules for different Rules Level Enforcement's. Wait till that doc shows up and we'll know for sure.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
psrex
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posted December 31, 2011 08:42 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for psrex Click Here to Email psrex Send a private message to psrex Click to send psrex an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View psrex's Have/Want ListView psrex's Have/Want List
If I use Sneak Attack to play a Protean Hulk and have a Lifeline in play, what happens at the end of turn? Does Lifeline activate, or do all of the end of turn triggers go off at once, such that Protean Hulk isn't in the graveyard when Lifeline would trigger?
 
Devonin
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posted December 31, 2011 09:07 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
Depends. The creatures you fetch up won't be the ones that can bring the Hulk back. Lifeline sets up an intervening-If clause that only triggers if there is a creature in play at the time another creature leaves play. For example, nothing comes back with Lifeline and Wrath of God, since each creature dies at once and when it leaves play there's nothing for Lifeline to grab onto.

So if all you do is sneak in hulk on an empty board, punch with him then sacrifice him to end your turn, he goes away and stays away, and then you get your little mans. However, lifeline functions for all players and only cares about there being -any- other creature in play, so if you Sneak in Hulk and anybody including an opponent still has a creature in play when you sacrifice the hulk, you get all your little mans and the hulk back.

quote:
Originally posted by psrex:
If I use Sneak Attack to play a Protean Hulk and have a Lifeline in play, what happens at the end of turn? Does Lifeline activate, or do all of the end of turn triggers go off at once, such that Protean Hulk isn't in the graveyard when Lifeline would trigger?

 
psrex
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posted December 31, 2011 09:41 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for psrex Click Here to Email psrex Send a private message to psrex Click to send psrex an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View psrex's Have/Want ListView psrex's Have/Want List
I should have clarified that there is at least one other creature on the board when the Protean Hulk gets sacrificed.

Do I get the Protean Hulk at the end of my turn or at the end of my opponent's turn? By the time the Protean Hulk gets sacrificed the beginning of the end step has already gone by, so to me it seems like I should get the Protean Hulk back at the end of my opponent's turn.

 
Devonin
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posted December 31, 2011 11:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
At the beginning of their end step, yes.

quote:
I should have clarified that there is at least one other creature on the board when the Protean Hulk gets sacrificed.
Do I get the Protean Hulk at the end of my turn or at the end of my opponent's turn? By the time the Protean Hulk gets sacrificed the beginning of the end step has already gone by, so to me it seems like I should get the Protean Hulk back at the end of my opponent's turn.

 
bawitheba
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posted January 03, 2012 09:33 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for bawitheba Click Here to Email bawitheba Send a private message to bawitheba Click to send bawitheba an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View bawitheba's Have/Want ListView bawitheba's Have/Want List
Ok my question is about corpse dance. It is a instant from tempest that returns the top creature card from your graveyard to play. Now that you are allowed to change the order of your graveyard what shoul this card actually say. There is no eratta on it about this.
 
Loathing
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posted January 03, 2012 09:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Loathing Click Here to Email Loathing Send a private message to Loathing Click to send Loathing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bawitheba:
Ok my question is about corpse dance. It is a instant from tempest that returns the top creature card from your graveyard to play. Now that you are allowed to change the order of your graveyard what shoul this card actually say. There is no eratta on it about this.

You can't change the order of your graveyard in formats where cards that care about the order of your graveyard are legal.

 
FlashFrozen
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posted January 03, 2012 09:45 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for FlashFrozen Click Here to Email FlashFrozen Send a private message to FlashFrozen Click to send FlashFrozen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bawitheba:
Ok my question is about corpse dance. It is a instant from tempest that returns the top creature card from your graveyard to play. Now that you are allowed to change the order of your graveyard what shoul this card actually say. There is no eratta on it about this.

3.13 Graveyard Order
In formats involving only cards from Urza’s Saga™ and later, players may change the order of their graveyard at any time. A player may not change the order of an opponent’s graveyard.

 
oneofchaos
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posted January 03, 2012 10:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I am at a measly two life. I have a laboratory maniac in play and cast night's whisper. Win or lose?
 
caquaa
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posted January 04, 2012 01:36 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
edited.. see FlashFrozen's response below....

[Edited 2 times, lastly by caquaa on January 04, 2012]
 
oneofchaos
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posted January 04, 2012 02:24 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
you lose. There is a rule if you both win and lose at the same time, then you lose. I'm sure you can find it if you need it quoted or such.

Yah saw that, thanks. If I cast Zap with me at 0 cards in library and opponent at 1 life, the game is a draw correct? Because we both lose?

 
FlashFrozen
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posted January 04, 2012 03:06 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for FlashFrozen Click Here to Email FlashFrozen Send a private message to FlashFrozen Click to send FlashFrozen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
you lose. There is a rule if you both win and lose at the same time, then you lose. I'm sure you can find it if you need it quoted or such.

I could be incorrect here because you guys sound pretty confident, but I think you win the game before state based effects are even checked. Assuming you have 1 or less cards in the library, which wasn't stated in the original problem, when you cast the nights whisper you would win the game on the spells resolution. SBEs are checked only when any player would receive priority. The game is over as the spell resolves.

TL; DR You win, not lose.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by FlashFrozen on January 04, 2012]

 
caquaa
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posted January 04, 2012 03:20 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
104.3f If a player would both win and lose the game simultaneously, he or she loses the game.

704.5. The state-based actions are as follows:
704.5a If a player has 0 or less life, he or she loses the game.
704.5b If a player attempted to draw a card from a library with no cards in it since the last time
state-based actions were checked, he or she loses the game.

quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
Yah saw that, thanks. If I cast Zap with me at 0 cards in library and opponent at 1 life, the game is a draw correct? Because we both lose?

pretty sure there should be a rule that you lose if you're caught playing with zap. Since there isn't, then its a draw.
See above rules, same applies.

104.4. There are several ways for the game to be a draw.
104.4a If all the players remaining in a game lose simultaneously, the game is a draw.


[Edited 4 times, lastly by caquaa on January 04, 2012]

 
FlashFrozen
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posted January 04, 2012 05:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for FlashFrozen Click Here to Email FlashFrozen Send a private message to FlashFrozen Click to send FlashFrozen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
yah, you're incorrect.
editing in the rules since I'm being questioned ;p

104.3f If a player would both win and lose the game simultaneously, he or she loses the game.

704.5. The state-based actions are as follows:
704.5a If a player has 0 or less life, he or she loses the game.
704.5b If a player attempted to draw a card from a library with no cards in it since the last time
state-based actions were checked, he or she loses the game.



The replacement effect causes you to win during the resolution of nights whisper, therefore you never reach the point at which state based effects are checked, the game is over.

Neither player receives priority at the end of the game. The 0 life is not even relevant. You never lose the game therefore 104.3f does not even apply.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by FlashFrozen on January 04, 2012]

 
caquaa
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posted January 04, 2012 05:41 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
ugh, I apologize for not actually looking the card up. I just assumed it replaced the lose condition (ie: if you lose, instead you win... etc). Sorry ><

I'll edit to reflect correctness

 
choco man
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posted January 07, 2012 05:52 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for choco man Click Here to Email choco man Send a private message to choco man Click to send choco man an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View choco man's Have/Want ListView choco man's Have/Want List
If Blood Moon is in play, does Ruination destroy the lands Moon turned into mountains?

Does Blood Moon also help you turn on Valakut?

 
syous
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posted January 07, 2012 11:25 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for syous Click Here to Email syous Send a private message to syous Click to send syous an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by choco man:
If Blood Moon is in play, does Ruination destroy the lands Moon turned into mountains?

Does Blood Moon also help you turn on Valakut?


Yes, they are still nonbasic. Basic / non basic is called a super type which Blood Moon does not interfere with at all.

No it doesn't help Valakut, because Valakut is turned into a mountain by Blood Moon.

 
evilempire22
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posted January 08, 2012 08:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for evilempire22 Click Here to Email evilempire22 Send a private message to evilempire22 Click to send evilempire22 an Instant MessageVisit evilempire22's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View evilempire22's Have/Want ListView evilempire22's Have/Want List
If I play a card with Threshold, does it count itself as being in the graveyard for the purposes of the extra effect?

For example, if I play Far Wanderings with 6 cards in my graveyard, do I get the Threshold effect?

Thanks,

--Evil

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thror
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posted January 08, 2012 11:47 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by evilempire22:
If I play a card with Threshold, does it count itself as being in the graveyard for the purposes of the extra effect?

For example, if I play Far Wanderings with 6 cards in my graveyard, do I get the Threshold effect?

Thanks,

--Evil


The LAST part of a spell resolving is putting it into the graveyard. So when you search for lands, the physical card is still on the stack, not in your graveyard. So no, it will not count itself.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
Swift2210
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posted January 08, 2012 10:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Swift2210 Click Here to Email Swift2210 Send a private message to Swift2210 Click to send Swift2210 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Swift2210's Have/Want ListView Swift2210's Have/Want List
This question came up in my last EDH game. Does a piece of equipment granting Haste to a creature (with summoning sickness) dispel summoning sickness? That is, when the equipment is moved onto another creature will the first creature have summoning sickness or is it gone?
 
thror
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posted January 08, 2012 10:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Swift2210:
This question came up in my last EDH game. Does a piece of equipment granting Haste to a creature (with summoning sickness) dispel summoning sickness? That is, when the equipment is moved onto another creature will the first creature have summoning sickness or is it gone?

The creature will still be 'Summoning Sick'. If the creature no longer has haste, it cannot attack.

quote:
302.6. A creature can't attack unless it has been under its controller's control continuously since his or her most recent turn began. This rule is informally called the "summoning sickness" rule.

508.1a The active player chooses which creatures that he or she controls, if any, will attack. The chosen creatures must be untapped, and each one must either have haste or have been controlled by the active player continuously since the turn began.


__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
Phyrexian Angel
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posted January 08, 2012 10:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Phyrexian Angel Click Here to Email Phyrexian Angel Send a private message to Phyrexian Angel Click to send Phyrexian Angel an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Swift2210:
This question came up in my last EDH game. Does a piece of equipment granting Haste to a creature (with summoning sickness) dispel summoning sickness? That is, when the equipment is moved onto another creature will the first creature have summoning sickness or is it gone?

"Haste" does not dispel ""Summoning Sickness". Instead, the ability allows creatures with "summoning sickness" to attack and tap.

By the way, is there any formal term for "summoning sickness"?

 
JoshSherman
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posted January 09, 2012 12:52 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for JoshSherman Click Here to Email JoshSherman Send a private message to JoshSherman Click to send JoshSherman an Instant MessageVisit JoshSherman's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View JoshSherman's Trade Auction or SaleView JoshSherman's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by FlashFrozen:
The replacement effect causes you to win during the resolution of nights whisper, therefore you never reach the point at which state based effects are checked, the game is over.

I'm adding this to your answer because I was pretty confused about the entire conversation until I read, then reread the card. This is a fine example of why people who are asking questions (and those answering if the askers did not) should use the autocard function. If your browser does not support it, you can probably download an Internet Explorere extension for your browser which will allow you to utilize it. It saves time in the long run, and if you click the link, you might just answer your own question!

Laboratory Maniac's replacement effect replaces the act of drawing a card. If you're a bonehead like me, or you simply aren't well-acquainted enough with Magic's rules, you might take the card to be saying that you win instead of losing, which is not the case.

edit:

quote:
Originally posted by Phyrexian Angel:
By the way, is there any formal term for "summoning sickness"?

I checked out rules.wizards.com to see what it had to say about this, because I thought "summoning sickness" was the formal term. It's listed in the glossary as an informal term, and it does not provide a formal one.
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by JoshSherman on January 09, 2012]

 

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