The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 50: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here - Magic Online Trading League Bulletin Board

Topic Closed

Magic Online Trading League Bulletin Board

Magic Discussion

The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 50: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here (Page 7)

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 13 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Author	Topic: The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 50: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
junichi Moderator	posted January 11, 2012 12:52 PM If my library has 30 cards left and 2 Emrakul in it, and I have Mesmeric Orb & Basalt Monolith in play, would it be stalling if I try to mill myself until the last 2 card are Emrakul? __________________ MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
WestWycke Member	posted January 12, 2012 09:46 AM Yes, you would be called for stalling. A repetitive action must have a guaranteed reachable endpoint to be able to avoid being considered stalling. Because the reshuffle effect introduces randomness into your actions, you do not have a guaranteed reachable endpoint. __________________ "If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the other 3% ?" "I intend to live forever. So far, so good."
Meddling Pimp Member	posted January 12, 2012 09:25 PM quote: Originally posted by junichi: If my library has 30 cards left and 2 Emrakul in it, and I have Mesmeric Orb & Basalt Monolith in play, would it be stalling if I try to mill myself until the last 2 card are Emrakul? Stalling is intentionally using a time limit to influence the outcome of the game/match. If you're looping this combo just to burn time, you're stalling.
totalkaoz Member	posted January 12, 2012 11:31 PM Hero of Bladehold and Gideon Jura. I have heard both sides of the argument on whether the soldier tokens that enter play have to attack Gideon or not. Which is it, once and for all? One side argues that they do not have to attack Gideon because they entered play attacking and therefore, never "attacked." quote: 508.4. If a creature is put onto the battlefield attacking, its controller chooses which defending player or which planeswalker a defending player controls it‘s attacking as it enters the battlefield (unless the effect that put it onto the battlefield specifies what it‘s attacking). Such creatures are "attacking" but, for the purposes of trigger events and effects, they never "attacked." Meanwhile, the other side argues that all creatures their opponent controls have to attack Gideon, whether or not they entered play attacking. This is in line with the ruling on Wizards: quote: Gideon Jura's first ability doesn't lock in what it applies to. That's because the effect states a true thing about a set of creatures, but doesn't actually change the characteristics of those creatures. As a result, whatever creatures the targeted opponent controls during the declare attackers step of his or her next turn must attack Gideon Jura if able. This includes creatures that come under that player's control after the ability has resolved and creatures that have lost all abilities.
caquaa Member	posted January 13, 2012 08:03 AM The tokens can attack whatever they want 508.4. If a creature is put onto the battlefield attacking, its controller chooses which defending player or which planeswalker a defending player controls it's attacking as it enters the battlefield (unless the effect that put it onto the battlefield specifies what it's attacking). Such creatures are "attacking" but, for the purposes of trigger events and effects, they never "attacked." Gidoen requires that when you declare attackers he must be attacked. The hero of bladehold tokens (and geist of saint traft) in current standard get around this by skipping past being declared as attackers and simply come into play attacking.
junichi Moderator	posted January 13, 2012 10:05 AM quote: Originally posted by Meddling Pimp: Stalling is intentionally using a time limit to influence the outcome of the game/match. If you're looping this combo just to burn time, you're stalling. My concern is, what if the play is a legitimate way to win the game? The intention is to make sure I draw an Emrakul on my draw phase so I can swing for the win. Would that change anything? Despite the low probability to have both Emrakul as my last 2 card, the chance is still there, and eventually after enough shuffles, I would be able to achieve that. __________________ MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
orcishartillery Member	posted January 13, 2012 12:07 PM caquaa's answer is correct; the tokens do not have to attack Gideon. Requirements and restrictions on attacking apply only as attackers are being declared. They do not apply to creatures that are put into play attacking.
Devonin Member	posted January 13, 2012 06:21 PM I feel like aside from a few very obvious things (Shuffling for 10 minutes before presenting your deck etc etc) a lot of claims that someone is stalling end up the call of the judge on the floor, but in the case you're mentioning I don't believe it would be. Some combos take a really long time to finish. You can conclusively point to the effect you're generating, and that effect is if not a win, then a strong win condition. You're not doing it to stall for time. quote: Originally posted by junichi: My concern is, what if the play is a legitimate way to win the game? The intention is to make sure I draw an Emrakul on my draw phase so I can swing for the win. Would that change anything? Despite the low probability to have both Emrakul as my last 2 card, the chance is still there, and eventually after enough shuffles, I would be able to achieve that.
thror Member	posted January 13, 2012 09:26 PM But in this case, the outcome is random each time (shuffling library until the last 2 cards are emrakul). Because of this, it has no pre-determined end point, unlike an actual combo loop (repeat actions xyz, generating +1mana/card each time, kill you with fireball). You could, in theory, shuffle for 10 years and never have the bottom 2 cards be emrakul. You cannot draw your deck and fail to find the fireball in your deck. It is stalling. __________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there." [16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for? [16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted [19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself
KyleHauser Member	posted January 14, 2012 01:37 AM Hello, If i have a dreadnought in play as well as a renegade doppelganger and cast copy artifact - does doppelganger obtain the dreadnoughts power / toughness?
Devonin Member	posted January 14, 2012 04:37 AM Copy Artifact enters the battlefield as a copy of Phyrexian Dreadnought, rather than entering the battlefield and -then- becoming a copy of dreadnought. So yes, the Doppleganger sees a creature enter the battlefield and can become a copy of it until end of turn. Bear in mind the Copy Artifact version, since it enters the battlefield -as- a copy, will also need you to sacrifce 12 power worth of creatures or sacrifice it.
Devonin Member	posted January 14, 2012 04:40 AM Durr, for some reason I had it in my head that Emrakul said that when he goes to the bin you shuffle him in, not the whole graveyard. Yeah you could do that forever and would actually be -more- likely to NEVER have a pair of Emrakuls as your whole library than you would be to EVER have it be the case. quote: Originally posted by thror: But in this case, the outcome is random each time (shuffling library until the last 2 cards are emrakul). Because of this, it has no pre-determined end point, unlike an actual combo loop (repeat actions xyz, generating +1mana/card each time, kill you with fireball). You could, in theory, shuffle for 10 years and never have the bottom 2 cards be emrakul. You cannot draw your deck and fail to find the fireball in your deck. It is stalling.
Skwirlnutz Member	posted January 16, 2012 05:10 PM So if I grab Savage Beating with Sunforger's Ability can I still pay the extra to Entwine the Savage Beating?
caquaa Member	posted January 16, 2012 07:36 PM quote: Originally posted by Skwirlnutz: So if I grab Savage Beating with Sunforger's Ability can I still pay the extra to Entwine the Savage Beating? assuming your opponent lets you cheat and choose the beating, yah you can pay it. Most magic players would probably have you reread sunforger.
Skwirlnutz Member	posted January 16, 2012 09:52 PM quote: Originally posted by caquaa: assuming your opponent lets you cheat and choose the beating, yah you can pay it. Most magic players would probably have you reread sunforger. Haha whoops forgot about that. Looking to add a few decent Instants to my Sunforger Toolbox. Didnt see the casting cost.
Skwirlnutz Member	posted January 18, 2012 09:58 PM If I grab an Orim's Chant with Sunforgers ability can I still kick it?
thror Member	posted January 18, 2012 11:23 PM quote: Originally posted by Skwirlnutz: If I grab an Orim's Chant with Sunforgers ability can I still kick it? Yes. Sunforger instructs you to cast the spell, kicker is an additional cost you may pay as you cast the spell. __________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there." [16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for? [16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted [19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself
TomB999 Member	posted January 19, 2012 03:51 PM If I have two Chronoligists out, would I get two extra turns?
totalkaoz Member	posted January 19, 2012 05:51 PM It's the Precombat Main Phase. I "go to combat" and my opponent uses Deceiver to tap one of my creatures. Can I then animate a manland and declare it as an attacker or is it too late? Similarly, my opponent taps down my Sword equiped creature in the precombat phase before I declare attackers. Can I move the equipment over to a different creature before delcaring my attackers? Can I animate a manland, equip it and attack with it?
Meddling Pimp Member	posted January 19, 2012 06:00 PM quote: Originally posted by totalkaoz: It's the Precombat Main Phase. I "go to combat" and my opponent uses Deceiver to tap one of my creatures. Can I then animate a manland and declare it as an attacker or is it too late? Similarly, my opponent taps down my Sword equiped creature in the precombat phase before I declare attackers. Can I move the equipment over to a different creature before delcaring my attackers? Can I animate a manland, equip it and attack with it? Unless your opponent says otherwise, you are in the Beginning of Combat step. You can animate your manland, but you cannot move the sword
Devonin Member	posted January 19, 2012 06:40 PM quote: Originally posted by TomB999: If I have two Chronoligists out, would I get two extra turns? Yes 6/15/2010 The effects of multiple level 7 Lighthouse Chronologists are cumulative. If you control two of them in a two-player game, you'll take three turns for each turn your opponent takes.
Eatatjoes Member	posted January 23, 2012 05:03 PM I have a glen elendra arcmage in play, and copy it with phantasmal image. When image dies and persists, can i copy another creature when image comes back into play?
Zakman86 Member	posted January 23, 2012 05:07 PM quote: Originally posted by Eatatjoes: I have a glen elendra arcmage in play, and copy it with phantasmal image. When image dies and persists, can i copy another creature when image comes back into play? Yes. The Image comes back as an Image, not as an Archmage.
iccarus Member	posted January 23, 2012 05:28 PM Carry over from a thread on the source with debate over how Bridge from Below works. I'm not the OP, but there seems to be some confusion and now I'm curious. If I kill one of my creatures in response to their BfB triggers to exile it, do they end up getting a zombie? The confusion seems to be coming from the "if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard" line. I interpret that to just mean it has to be in the yard to trigger, and once it does its too late to matter. __________________ Wisconsin - smells like dairy air! I collect Granite Gargoyles. Send them my way.
caquaa Member	posted January 23, 2012 10:14 PM quote: Originally posted by iccarus: If I kill one of my creatures in response to their BfB triggers to exile it, do they end up getting a zombie? No, bridge must be in the yard when the ability triggers AND resolves. Here's the rule about that whole mess: 603.4. A triggered ability may read “When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect].” When the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it resolves. If the condition isn’t true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does nothing. Note that this mirrors the check for legal targets. This rule is referred to as the “intervening ‘if’ clause” rule. (The word “if” has only its normal English meaning anywhere else in the text of a card; this rule only applies to an “if” that immediately follows a trigger condition.)

This topic is 13 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 All times are PDT (US)	next newest topic \| next oldest topic
Administrative Options: Open Topic \| Archive/Move \| Delete Topic
	Hop to:

Contact Us | MOTL Home Page | Privacy Statement & TOS