quote:

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Originally posted by ryan2754:
I am unable to search up Crib Swap with the various Rebel searchers like Lin Sivvi, correct, since they have been errata'd to say Rebel permanent card?

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you are correct. (instants and sorceries are not permanents, and as such cannot be put onto the battlefield)

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Originally posted by thror:
you are correct. (instants and sorceries are not permanents, and as such cannot be put onto the battlefield)

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Lame...

~MM

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I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion, 2007 Captain N award winner, 2010 Marlboro award winner, and 2011 Champion Tournament Pick'em
MOTL NCAA Bracket Challenge winner!

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quote:

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Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
Mirror Entity is all creature types at all times. So does that mean hand, GY, and library as well?

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Just in case you want to use the last ability of Spawnsire of Ulamog.

__________________
"If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the other 3% ?"

I know that's very vague... so let me ask it this way. This one time in a tournament a friend of mine used a Beast within on himself and created a 3/3, for this, he used a 6 sided die with the 3 on top. the game continued and he played a JaceTMS and used the same die he used for the 3/3 beast as the loyalty counter for the planeswalker. I guess he forgot it was a beast, and his opponent didn't tell him anything either. next turn, he attacks into Jace with a 2/2 and my friend doesn't block ( with a 3/3 that should be on the field) so I'm watching and I don't know if it's ok to say something, because I can guess he forgot that it was a beast to begin with... so I have 2 questions.
1.- once you declare an object as a 3/3 beast, can you change that? from a die to a coin, if so do you just need to let the otehr player know>?

There is no specific rule that says "You can't forget that you are using that die to represent a 3/3 creature and pick it up to use it to represent your planseswalker's loyalty". The closest I could see in the rules would be a failure to maintain game state, as he removed a permanent from the battlefield without a valid reason to do so.

As a spectator, here are the guidelines from the tournament rules

quote:

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Originally posted by Magic Tournament Rules:
Spectators are responsible for:
• Remaining silent and passive during matches and other official tournament sections, such as Limited deck construction, in which players are also required to be silent. If spectators believe they have observed a rules or policy violation, they are encouraged to alert a judge as soon as possible. At Regular or Competitive REL, spectators are permitted to ask the players to pause the match while they alert a judge. At Professional REL, spectators must not interfere with the match directly.

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quote:

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Originally posted by harbingerofthevoid:
Can you play the Rise half of Rise//Fall without having two targets, ie. critter in the grave but none in play?

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Once you have cast the spell, you only need one valid taarget for it to resolve.

__________________
"If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the other 3% ?"

quote:

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Originally posted by Myy:
what exactly are tokens?

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Tokens are permanents on the battlefield that are not cards; they can be represented by a variety of objects (coins and dice and pieces of paper are common), but the important thing is that you maintain the game state at all times. This means that it should be visible to all players what is on the battlefield and in what state all tokens are (most imporantly that you can distinguish between tapped and untapped).

There's nothing wrong with using a die to represent creature tokens or using a die to represent loyalty counters, but it should be clear which is which. If at any time you change things, you should make it clear to all players what is going on. A judge could give both players a warning in this situation for failure to maintain game state, since a creature token mysteriously vanished. As to determining how attacks and blocks should proceed, that should be left to the floor judge at the time, rather than second guessed by those of us who are only reading about it secondhand.

If you are a spectator, you can say something; at low level events (e.g. FNM), you can request both players stop play momentarily while you call over a judge. The best course of action is to call a judge immediately if you suspect something is wrong and players are acting illegally. This is different from a similar situation where a creature is clearly present on the battlefield, but a player elects not to block. In that situation, you should not remind a player about a creature, as that constitutes outside assistance. But, if you notice an illegal game state, you are within your rights to notify a judge who will do his/her best to rectify the situation.

quote:

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Originally posted by harbingerofthevoid:

Can you play the Rise half of Rise//Fall without having two targets, ie. critter in the grave but none in play?

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So how about this...

I cast Oblivion Ring. He has Stoneforge Mystic in play. In response he cheats in Batterskull. This is just a mess up on his part right? Like there is no way he can keep me from Ringing Batterskull, right?

quote:

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Originally posted by harbingerofthevoid:
I cast Oblivion Ring. He has Stoneforge Mystic in play. In response he cheats in Batterskull. This is just a mess up on his part right? Like there is no way he can keep me from Ringing Batterskull, right?

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There are two times that he can respond: he can respond while Oblivion Ring is on the stack and he can respond after Oblivion Ring resolves, enters the battlefield and its ability triggers.

Judges don't want players trying to play "Gotcha" magic.

If you didn't announce a target, then it likely will be ruled in response to casting O-ring and you can then choose what ever you want to exile.

quote:

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Originally posted by yakusoku:
There are two times that he can respond: he can respond while Oblivion Ring is on the stack and he can respond after Oblivion Ring resolves, enters the battlefield and its ability triggers.

If he responds while O. Ring is on the stack and chooses to put Batterskull onto the battlefield, you can choose Stoneforge Mystic, Batterskull, or the Germ token. You don't choose the target for O. Ring's ability until after it resolves. If he waits until after the spell resolves, you put the ability on the stack and choose a target (such as the S. Mystic) and before the ability resolves, he can activate the Mystic's ability and put the Batterskull on the battlefield. Then the O. Ring's triggered ability resolves and exiles Stoneforge Mystic. He loses his Mystic, but still keeps his Batterskull.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TimeBeing:
Also note if when you cast O-Ring you said target Stoneforge. And the other player doesn't clearly state at what point when he is bring in the Batterskull, most (good) judges will rule that it was while the trigger of O-ring is on the stack targeting Stoneforge.

Judges don't want players trying to play "Gotcha" magic.

If you didn't announce a target, then it likely will be ruled in response to casting O-ring and you can then choose what ever you want to exile.

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Also bear in mind that in cases like this, if you decide to use the shortcut of declaring the target early, and then try to backtrack before your shortcut because you changed your mind, while it may depend on the judge on the floor how they rule it, you'll look like an ass.

Also, there was a great question on Cranial Insertion that basically explains that sometimes those shortcuts will actually count as a tacit "I'm intending to pass priority until point X" statement that will be enforced by judges. If you're in your main phase and say "Enter combat?" and in response, they use an instant or ability to say, tap down or kill one of your creatures, they're automatically assumed to be doing so at the start of your declare attackers step, and not your main phase, unless they explicitly say "Still in your main phase I do X"

quote:

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Originally posted by Devonin:
Also bear in mind that in cases like this, if you decide to use the shortcut of declaring the target early, and then try to backtrack before your shortcut because you changed your mind, while it may depend on the judge on the floor how they rule it, you'll look like an ass.

Also, there was a great question on Cranial Insertion that basically explains that sometimes those shortcuts will actually count as a tacit "I'm intending to pass priority until point X" statement that will be enforced by judges. If you're in your main phase and say "Enter combat?" and in response, they use an instant or ability to say, tap down or kill one of your creatures, they're automatically assumed to be doing so at the start of your declare attackers step, and not your main phase, unless they explicitly say "Still in your main phase I do X"

When you're playing competitively enough to worry about things like that, play the cards properly, and announce that you're casting Oblivion Ring, and don't tell him a damn thing about what you might or might not pick until he passes priority and the thing resolves.

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for further reading on this stuff is all under the tournament short cuts of the Magic Tournament Rules.

that oblivion ring situation is a little different. If you declare a target when casting O-Ring, and nothing happen between when it was cast and when it resolves, then you are not allowed to change the target. But if something changes (like someone tries and fails to counter it) then you can.

However since in the batterskull case, it was unlikely the opponent stated when he was going to bring in the batterskull, most judges would rule that it happened after the trigger was on the stack and a traget declared, or they are going to back up to the point of O-ring being casted and the confusion happened, in which case chances are the other player will make the play correctly.

As Devonin said the best action is to play clearly and not try to "gotcha" your opponent.

If you say "Cast Oblivion Ring" and your opponent says "What are you targetting?" you could argue that they've made a tacit pass of priority and the ring is now on the battlefield, and if you answer, they can't respond with a counterspell, but if you say what you're targetting before they have a chance to respond to the cast, and they -do- decide to respond, say, by sacrificing the permanant you said you were going to target, I'd argue that you have a case for picking a different target once it's actually on the battlefield, though don't expect the player to be happy about it, and don't expect a judge to automatically be on your side.

quote:

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Originally posted by Devonin:
I'm not sure you're -not allowed- to change your target if you announce the target when you put the O-Ring on the stack and no response happens, since you explicitly do not actually select a target until the permanant has entered the battlefield, but it would be a huge dick move to try and change it, and a judge -may- rule "Too bad, you're stuck with your first pick" but I don't think that's automatically locked in because you said it.

If you say "Cast Oblivion Ring" and your opponent says "What are you targetting?" you could argue that they've made a tacit pass of priority and the ring is now on the battlefield, and if you answer, they can't respond with a counterspell, but if you say what you're targetting before they have a chance to respond to the cast, and they -do- decide to respond, say, by sacrificing the permanant you said you were going to target, I'd argue that you have a case for picking a different target once it's actually on the battlefield, though don't expect the player to be happy about it, and don't expect a judge to automatically be on your side.

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"If a player casts a spell or activates an ability and announces choices for it that are not normally made
until resolution, the player must adhere to those choices unless an opponent responds to that spell or
ability. If an opponent inquires about choices made during resolution, that player is assumed to be
passing priority and allowing that spell or ability to resolve."

Anyway, I just want to know if my general is Geist of Saint Traft and I attack my opponent, how many general damage he will make (2 or 6?).

quote:

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Originally posted by Phyrexian Angel:
Is it appropriate to ask an EDH ruling question here?

Anyway, I just want to know if my general is Geist of Saint Traft and I attack my opponent, how many general damage he will make (2 or 6?).

Also, is there any article about the dredge case Devonin mentioned? It would be an interesting situation and I would like to know what did the judge said.

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It doesn't seem to be explicitly stated in the EDH/Commander rules, but you would just count the damage dealt by Geist of Saint Traft itself, and not the token. FWIW, the rules I would consider relevant are:

quote:

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Official Commander rules 9-10 from mtgcommander.net:
Being a Commander is not a characteristic[MTG CR109.3], it is a property of the card. As such, "Commander-ness" cannot be copied or overwritten by continuous effects, and does not change with control of the card. Examples

If a player has been dealt 21 points of combat damage by a particular Commander during the game, that player loses a game. Details

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So from that, it is the specific card (in this case Geist) that is the commander, and only the commander's damage is counted toward the 21. You would treat the angel token just like any other creature on the battlefield as far as damage is concerned.

You're allowed to lie about hidden knowledge all you like. If someone is about to combo out and says "Do you have a mana leak in your hand?" you can absolutely say "yes" whether you have one or not. The metagame at the time of that event was basically "Dredge is always going to win game one, until you can sideboard against it." so the person had heard this guy was playing Dredge and asked him before the match started "Are you playing Dredge?"

quote:

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Originally posted by Devonin:
You're allowed to lie about hidden knowledge all you like.

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Yep. In it's simplest form, well the way I see it at least, when you're allowed by a spell or effect to search for [whatever], you don't have to find it. So your opponent will more than likely think you don't have one in your deck. So the "Dredge" opponent, believed his opponent was playing Dredge. He scooped. His loss.

===

Thanks for all the O-ring convo. I was playing that game out on Cockatrice. I moved the O-ring to the stack. Said, k? he said k, and I moved the o-ring to play. So now o-ring has resolved and the targeting goes on the stack. He then taps SFM and drops in Batterskull. So I took it. Seemed like more a timing mistake on his part. I even asked him if he wanted to take it back . We played on. He still won 2-1.

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Evoke:
"You may cast this spell for its evoke cost. If you do, it's sacrificed when it enters the battlefield."

I have time to sacrifice the creature being evoked to something else ie. Jinxed Idol, right?

And, evoke is played as a sorcery?

quote:

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Originally posted by harbingerofthevoid:
Evoke:
"You may cast this spell for its evoke cost. If you do, it's sacrificed when it enters the battlefield."

I have time to sacrifice the creature being evoked to something else ie. Jinxed Idol, right?

And, evoke is played as a sorcery?

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Evoke is just a different cost to pay for the creature. If the creature has flash, or you have teferi in play, you can evoke at instant speed.

Yes, evoke creates a trigger. With the trigger on the stack, you are allowed to cast instants/activate abilities, so you can sac it to Idol if you want.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted