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Author Topic:   The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 50: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
CubFan81
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posted January 24, 2012 11:49 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for CubFan81 Click Here to Email CubFan81 Send a private message to CubFan81 Click to send CubFan81 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View CubFan81's Have/Want ListView CubFan81's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Zakman86:
Yes. The Image comes back as an Image, not as an Archmage.

Intersting. Follow up: Does the Image come back with a -1/-1 counter?

What happens if on an empty board (besides lands) my opponent plays Show and Tell/Eureka and chooses to put in Emrakul/Progenitus and I chose Gilded Drake.

As far as I can tell, the Drake's ability is targeted so Progenitus means I lose the Drake but can I grab his Emrakul?

Does it make a difference which spell he used?

 
Kyzneg
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posted January 24, 2012 08:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CubFan81:
Intersting. Follow up: Does the Image come back with a -1/-1 counter?

What happens if on an empty board (besides lands) my opponent plays Show and Tell/Eureka and chooses to put in Emrakul/Progenitus and I chose Gilded Drake.

As far as I can tell, the Drake's ability is targeted so Progenitus means I lose the Drake but can I grab his Emrakul?

Does it make a difference which spell he used?


You're correct, you would be forced to sacrifice the Drake in the Progenitus example, and can target the Emrakul, the Drake is not a spell when it's ability targets, so Emrakul's protection ability doesn't apply.

As for the Show and Tell/Eureka distinction, it generally won't matter, unless your opponent is playing Eureka and chooses to put something else into play after the Progenitus and Gilded Drake have already been put into play. The Drake's trigger won't be put on the stack until the Eureka has finished resolving, so if that happens, you can (probably) target the other creature to avoid having to sacrifice the Drake.

Edit: And yes, the Phantasmal Image will enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it when it persists.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Kyzneg on January 24, 2012]

 
southparker2002
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posted January 25, 2012 09:56 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for southparker2002 Click Here to Email southparker2002 Send a private message to southparker2002 Click to send southparker2002 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View southparker2002's Have/Want ListView southparker2002's Have/Want List
What happens if I control Transcendence and a Felidar Sovereign and a Platinum Angel. Would the Angel prevent my game loss at more than 20 life and I'd still win with 40? What if the Angel dies?
 
DeMoNiC DuNcE
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posted January 25, 2012 01:26 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for DeMoNiC DuNcE Click Here to Email DeMoNiC DuNcE Send a private message to DeMoNiC DuNcE Click to send DeMoNiC DuNcE an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If I control an essence of the wild and Guttergrime, when a nontoken creature dies, does the token enter as an essence of the wild with power and toughness equal to 6/6 or will it base its power and toughness off the counters on Guttergrime?
 
WeedIan
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posted January 25, 2012 01:34 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by southparker2002:
What happens if I control Transcendence and a Felidar Sovereign and a Platinum Angel. Would the Angel prevent my game loss at more than 20 life and I'd still win with 40? What if the Angel dies?

You don't lose because the Angel is in Play
"You can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game"

Yes you would win still at 40 life.

If the Angel dies and you are over 20 you would lose the game.

 
WestWycke
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posted January 26, 2012 11:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for WestWycke Click Here to Email WestWycke Send a private message to WestWycke Click to send WestWycke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DeMoNiC DuNcE:
If I control an essence of the wild and Guttergrime, when a nontoken creature dies, does the token enter as an essence of the wild with power and toughness equal to 6/6 or will it base its power and toughness off the counters on Guttergrime?


Essence of the Wild has a replacement effect that makes all creatures ETB as a copy of Essence of the Wild. It doesn't matter how they got onto the battlefield, or what they would have looked like. They enter as copies of EotW.

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Crash21
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posted January 26, 2012 11:49 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Crash21 Click Here to Email Crash21 Send a private message to Crash21 Click to send Crash21 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Crash21's Have/Want ListView Crash21's Have/Want List
Legal or not?

Scion of the Ur-Dragon in play. Pay 2 to copy Skittles. In response, before it resolves, pay 2 to copy Moltensteel Dragon. Pump +6/+0 (12 life) into it before Skittles resolves. Pay B to give Scion haste and kill someone with your 10/4 Infect creature.

Thanks!

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Crash21 on January 26, 2012]

 
Devonin
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posted January 26, 2012 07:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Crash21:
Legal or not?

Scion of the Ur-Dragon in play. Pay 2 to copy Skittles. In response, before it resolves, pay 2 to copy Moltensteel Dragon. Pump +6/+0 (12 life) into it before Skittles resolves. Pay B to give Scion haste and kill someone with your 10/4 Infect creature.

Thanks!



You certainly can, and it's very rude to do so.

 
Crash21
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posted January 27, 2012 06:53 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Crash21 Click Here to Email Crash21 Send a private message to Crash21 Click to send Crash21 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Crash21's Have/Want ListView Crash21's Have/Want List
When you're playing against players that have no qualms about dropping a turn 3 Lightning Greaved Ulamog or It That Betrays, or Mind Twisting away your 6-card hand on turn 3, I tend to think that the play is more appropriate than rude. It's certainly not something I would do against more casual decks.

And thank you for your response.

 
orcishartillery
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posted January 27, 2012 09:18 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for orcishartillery Send a private message to orcishartillery Click to send orcishartillery an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by southparker2002:
What happens if I control Transcendence and a Felidar Sovereign and a Platinum Angel. Would the Angel prevent my game loss at more than 20 life and I'd still win with 40? What if the Angel dies?

Unless you have a way to break the resulting loop, the game would end in a draw.

Transcendence's ability reads "When you have 20 or more life, you lose the game." This is a state trigger, which triggers whenever the game is in the appropriate state (except when the ability is already on the stack).

As Transcendence's ability resolves, Platinum Angel prevents you from losing the game. Afterwards, you still have 20 or more life, so the ability immediately triggers again.

This is a loop containing only mandatory actions, so without a way to break the loop, the game ends in a draw.

 
Trumpeter
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posted January 29, 2012 11:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trumpeter Click Here to Email Trumpeter Send a private message to Trumpeter Click to send Trumpeter an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I have 2 questions:

1. If a person attacks me with Kozilek (or another annihilator creature), can I use Act of Aggression to control Kozilek AND sacrifice him as a requirement of annihilator? (Obviously, that is in addition to the others I sacrifice.)

2. If I have Urabrask out and I play a creature, attack and an opponent kills Urabrask, can the other creature still be attacking since it no longer has haste?

 
Loathing
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posted January 29, 2012 11:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Loathing Click Here to Email Loathing Send a private message to Loathing Click to send Loathing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Trumpeter:
I have 2 questions:

1. If a person attacks me with Kozilek (or another annihilator creature), can I use Act of Aggression to control Kozilek AND sacrifice him as a requirement of annihilator? (Obviously, that is in addition to the others I sacrifice.)

2. If I have Urabrask out and I play a creature, attack and an opponent kills Urabrask, can the other creature still be attacking since it no longer has haste?


1) Yes, if you gain control of Kozilek before the Annihilator trigger resolves.

2) Yes.

 
ryan2754
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posted January 30, 2012 05:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryan2754 Click Here to Email ryan2754 Send a private message to ryan2754 Click to send ryan2754 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryan2754's Have/Want ListView ryan2754's Have/Want List
I know this is a totally noob question, but can a creature with an activated ability involving sacrificing a creature be used on itself? And still get the ability (portion after the colon)?

For example: Deranged Outcast from DKA.

Can I sac it to itself and still get 2 +1/+1 counters for another creature?

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OGB
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posted January 30, 2012 06:01 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for OGB Click Here to Email OGB Send a private message to OGB Click to send OGB an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ryan2754:
I know this is a totally noob question, but can a creature with an activated ability involving sacrificing a creature be used on itself? And still get the ability (portion after the colon)?

For example: Deranged Outcast from DKA.

Can I sac it to itself and still get 2 +1/+1 counters for another creature?


Absolutely.

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Skwirlnutz
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posted January 30, 2012 02:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Skwirlnutz Click Here to Email Skwirlnutz Send a private message to Skwirlnutz Click to send Skwirlnutz an Instant MessageVisit Skwirlnutz's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Skwirlnutz's Trade Auction or SaleView Skwirlnutz's Trade Auction or Sale
If Withenger goes to the graveyard does it transform back to Elbrus?
 
choco man
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posted January 30, 2012 02:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for choco man Click Here to Email choco man Send a private message to choco man Click to send choco man an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View choco man's Have/Want ListView choco man's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Skwirlnutz:
If Withenger goes to the graveyard does it transform back to Elbrus?

If Withenger dies, it will stay in gy.

 
JoshSherman
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posted January 31, 2012 06:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for JoshSherman Click Here to Email JoshSherman Send a private message to JoshSherman Click to send JoshSherman an Instant MessageVisit JoshSherman's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View JoshSherman's Trade Auction or SaleView JoshSherman's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Skwirlnutz:
If Withenger goes to the graveyard does it transform back to Elbrus?

quote:
Originally posted by choco man:
If Withenger dies, it will stay in gy.

That is not an answer to the question.

Since the question isn't completely clear-- it seems you used "transform" inappropriately-- let me make sure what you are asking. You want to know which side is up when it's in the 'yard, right? That will always be the front side. It does not, however, count as transforming for any game purpose of the word.

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Trumpeter
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posted January 31, 2012 11:54 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trumpeter Click Here to Email Trumpeter Send a private message to Trumpeter Click to send Trumpeter an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I have another question except more in depth. (Sorry to be such a bother.)

I'm sure you could guess the difficulty here if I just said, "It's a question about double strike and trample."

Say I have a 4/4 double strike and trample creature and it gets blocked by a 4/1 first strike. The first step would be the first strike in which they both hit at the same time, therefore, lethal damage on both, right? Then, since the attacker has trample does 3 damage from the first strike go through in addition to the next 4 damage (via the double strike)? If I understand double strike correctly, it essentially has 8 damage to deal. Since it has trample, that damage is subtracted by the blocker's toughness (which is 1) to 7. OR does the double strike just count the damage that went through during the first strike step? For example, since only 3 damage made it through that step, then 6 damage total would go through. Or am I just way off here?

Thanks

 
Loathing
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posted February 01, 2012 12:29 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Loathing Click Here to Email Loathing Send a private message to Loathing Click to send Loathing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I believe only 3 damage goes through. Double-strike means that the creature deals both first strike and normal combat damage. However, since in your example the creature dies during the first strike damage step it doesn't deal any normal damage.
 
Kyzneg
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posted February 01, 2012 12:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Trumpeter:
I have another question except more in depth. (Sorry to be such a bother.)

I'm sure you could guess the difficulty here if I just said, "It's a question about double strike and trample."

Say I have a 4/4 double strike and trample creature and it gets blocked by a 4/1 first strike. The first step would be the first strike in which they both hit at the same time, therefore, lethal damage on both, right? Then, since the attacker has trample does 3 damage from the first strike go through in addition to the next 4 damage (via the double strike)? If I understand double strike correctly, it essentially has 8 damage to deal. Since it has trample, that damage is subtracted by the blocker's toughness (which is 1) to 7. OR does the double strike just count the damage that went through during the first strike step? For example, since only 3 damage made it through that step, then 6 damage total would go through. Or am I just way off here?

Thanks


First strike is handled in a different combat damage step prior to the normal combat damage step.

quote:
MTG Comprehensive Rules 702.7b:

If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike or double strike (see rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step.

The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike.


So in that first combat damage step, the 4/4 with double strike and trample (creature A) will need to assign at least 1 damage to the 4/1 with first strike (Creature B) and at most 3 damage to the defending player. At the same time, creature B deals 4 damage to creature A. After damage is dealt, state based effects are checked, and both creatures will be put into their owner's graveyards, as both have been assigned lethal damage.

At this point, after any triggered abilities have resolved and both players pass priority, the second combat damage step will happen, and since neither creature is still on the battlefield (and since creature B didn't have double-strike anyway), they won't deal any damage during the 2nd combat damage step.

It's important to remember that while combat damage doesn't stack any more, the active player still gets priority after combat damage has been dealt, which means that state based effects and triggered abilities still happen in the combat damage step(s).

lt;dr version: the attacking creature will deal 1 to the blocking creature and 3 to the defending player, for 4 damage total.

 
Browbeater
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posted February 03, 2012 02:04 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Browbeater Click Here to Email Browbeater Send a private message to Browbeater Click to send Browbeater an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Browbeater's Have/Want ListView Browbeater's Have/Want List
Had a game where this came up:
Attack with Kaalia, and lay Dread Cacodemon with the effect.
What should have happened?
 
Kyzneg
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posted February 03, 2012 02:27 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Browbeater:
Had a game where this came up:
Attack with Kaalia, and lay Dread Cacodemon with the effect.
What should have happened?

quote:
Oracle text for Dread Cacodemon:
When Dread Cacodemon enters the battlefield, if you cast it from your hand

Kaalia doesn't cast the creatures she puts into play, so the Cacodemon was never cast, let alone from the Kaalia player's hand, so it's just an 8/8 attacker.

 
skizzikmonger
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posted February 03, 2012 03:10 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
My opponent and I both control a Tarmogoyf, and I also have a Knight of the Reliquary in play, and a Maelstrom Pulse in my hand.

1) If I play Sejiri Steppe giving my Tarmogoyf protection from black, then target my opponent's Tarmogoyf with the Pulse, will my Tarmogoyf still be destroyed?

2) If I target my Tarmogoyf with Pulse, then in response tap the Knight and sac a land to get Sejiri Steppe into play and give my Tarmogoyf protection from black, will my opponent's Tarmogoyf be destroyed?

 
caquaa
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posted February 03, 2012 04:42 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
My opponent and I both control a Tarmogoyf, and I also have a Knight of the Reliquary in play, and a Maelstrom Pulse in my hand.

1) If I play Sejiri Steppe giving my Tarmogoyf protection from black, then target my opponent's Tarmogoyf with the Pulse, will my Tarmogoyf still be destroyed?

2) If I target my Tarmogoyf with Pulse, then in response tap the Knight and sac a land to get Sejiri Steppe into play and give my Tarmogoyf protection from black, will my opponent's Tarmogoyf be destroyed?


1) Maelstrom pulse isn't targeting your goyf so it doesn't care that it has protection; Pulse will destroy your goyf.

2) Pulse is targeting your goyf, so pulse will care that your goyf has protection. Pulse will be countered upon resolution because the target is illegal due to having protection.

Try otherworldly journey or some such card as protection won't achieve your desired goal.

 
Schwingzilla
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posted February 05, 2012 08:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Schwingzilla Click Here to Email Schwingzilla Send a private message to Schwingzilla Click to send Schwingzilla an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Schwingzilla's Trade Auction or SaleView Schwingzilla's Trade Auction or Sale
How do double-faced cards work with Ixidron?
 

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