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Author Topic:   The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 51: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
JackSpade
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posted March 30, 2012 10:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JackSpade Click Here to Email JackSpade Send a private message to JackSpade Click to send JackSpade an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by tragicmagic:
If Karn is removed from play, then you play another Karn, and use its ability to reset the game, does it retrieve the cards that were exiled by the original Karn?

Nope. When the text of the card says "Karn Liberated" it really means this card. Its treated as a new instance each time it enters the battlefield, like it it was blinked out or bounced to your hand and recast its a different Karn each time.

 
jasonost
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posted March 31, 2012 11:56 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for jasonost Click Here to Email jasonost Send a private message to jasonost Click to send jasonost an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View jasonost's Have/Want ListView jasonost's Have/Want List
Here's a question about cards like lodestone golem and thalia. If my opponent has one in play, do I have to pay (1) for each of them in play if I'm using the "pay 1 life and exile a blue card from your hand" cost of Force of Will?

And I have to pay more for spells being flashed back too, right?

 
thror
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posted March 31, 2012 12:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
They are all cumulative. So if there are 3 lodestone golems, fow would cost either 3UU+3, or 3+1 life+blue card.

This applies for any card that you CAST (from hand, flashback, rebound, suspend, etc). Copies of spells (made by storm, for example), arent cast, so you don't have to pay for them.

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skizzikmonger
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posted March 31, 2012 07:50 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If I copy a Bloodline Keeper with Phyrexian Metamorph can I transform the copy once I control 5+ vampires?
 
Skwirlnutz
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posted March 31, 2012 08:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Skwirlnutz Click Here to Email Skwirlnutz Send a private message to Skwirlnutz Click to send Skwirlnutz an Instant MessageVisit Skwirlnutz's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Skwirlnutz's Trade Auction or SaleView Skwirlnutz's Trade Auction or Sale
If I have Kaalia equipped with a Sword of Feast and Famine and also attacking with a Hellkite Charger and 7 lands can I have infinite Attack
Phases?
 
Kyzneg
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posted March 31, 2012 08:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
If I copy a Bloodline Keeper with Phyrexian Metamorph can I transform the copy once I control 5+ vampires?

Nope, only Double-Faced cards can transform. The relevant rule is in the Comprehensive Rules, #701.25a "Only permanents represented by Double-Faced Cards can transform. If a spell or ability instructs a player to transform any permanent that isn't represented by a double-faced card, nothing happens."

You can still activate Bloodline Keeper's 2nd ability, but it won't do anything.

 
thror
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posted March 31, 2012 09:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Skwirlnutz:
If I have Kaalia equipped with a Sword of Feast and Famine and also attacking with a Hellkite Charger and 7 lands can I have infinite Attack
Phases?

As long as you can pay the 5RR before combat damage, and the creature holding the sword hits a player, and the hellkite charger attacked (was declared as an attacker, not 'put onto the battlefield tapped and attacking'), you will get as many attack phases as you want.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
tragicmagic
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posted April 02, 2012 09:29 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for tragicmagic Click Here to Email tragicmagic Send a private message to tragicmagic Click to send tragicmagic an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View tragicmagic's Trade Auction or SaleView tragicmagic's Trade Auction or Sale
With cards like a Spark Elemental where you sac it at the end of turn, can you still sneak a Brimstone Volley in for the Morbid effect?
 
yakusoku
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posted April 02, 2012 09:57 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for yakusoku Click Here to Email yakusoku Send a private message to yakusoku Click to send yakusoku an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yes, you can.

First of all, note that Spark Elemental's Oracle text reads as this:

quote:
Spark Elemental

At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice Spark Elemental.


The Comprehensive rules cover this pretty clearly. At the beginning of the end step, you sacrifice Spark Elemental, then both players get priority to play spells.

quote:
Comprehensive Rules:

513.1. First, all abilities that trigger "at the beginning of the end step" or "at the beginning of the next end step" go on the stack.

513.1a Previously, abilities that trigger at the beginning of the end step were printed with the trigger condition "at end of turn." Cards that were printed with that text have received errata in the Oracle card reference to say "at the beginning of the end step" or "at the beginning of the next end step."

513.2. Second, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities.


 
Schwingzilla
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posted April 03, 2012 07:48 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Schwingzilla Click Here to Email Schwingzilla Send a private message to Schwingzilla Click to send Schwingzilla an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Schwingzilla's Trade Auction or SaleView Schwingzilla's Trade Auction or Sale
If Treetop Village is enchanted with Parallax Dementia, what happens at end of turn?
 
WestWycke
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posted April 03, 2012 10:50 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for WestWycke Click Here to Email WestWycke Send a private message to WestWycke Click to send WestWycke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Treetop Village stops being a creature during cleanup.
This causes Parallax Dementia to go to the graveyard because it is enchanting an illegal object.
This triggers Parallax Dementia, and the trigger goes on the stack.
When it resolves, it destroys Treetop Village.

Here's why.

quote:
Originally posted by Comp. Rules:
201.5. If an ability of an object uses a phrase such as “this [something]” to identify an object, where [something] is a characteristic, it is referring to that particular object, even if it isn’t the appropriate characteristic at the time.
Example: An ability reads “Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn. Destroy that creature at the beginning of the next end step.” The ability will destroy the object it gave +2/+2 to even if that object isn’t a creature at the beginning of the next end step.

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by WestWycke on April 03, 2012]

 
kirkusjones
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posted April 04, 2012 04:29 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for kirkusjones Click Here to Email kirkusjones Send a private message to kirkusjones Click to send kirkusjones an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
This came up in an EDH game last week. One player had out rooftop storm, diregraf captain, Grimgrin and a gravecrawler. The Grimgrin player proceeded to sacrifice the gravecrawler and recast it an infinite number of times to kill off the other two players (I had out essence warden so I was netting zero lifeloss). the other two players believed that the combo was not possible because " you can't untap an untapped creature" my thinking was that the ability could be activated inifinitely as long as you had infinite sac outlets. what would the actual ruling be?
 
WestWycke
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posted April 04, 2012 07:09 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for WestWycke Click Here to Email WestWycke Send a private message to WestWycke Click to send WestWycke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
The series of events you describe is legal. Grimgrin's activated ability has a cost of saccing a creature(before colon) and an effect that includes untapping Grimgrin(after colon). There is no problem with attempting to untap a creature that is already untapped when resolving a spell or effect.
The only time the initial tapped/untapped state would matter is if it was either a)paying a cost (creatures like Gilder Bairn must be tapped in order to activate their ability) or b) if being tapped was a targetting restriction (like Soldevi Golem's upkeep ability).

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"If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the other 3% ?"

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good."


[Edited 2 times, lastly by WestWycke on April 04, 2012]

 
Darkwing
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posted April 04, 2012 02:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Darkwing Send a private message to Darkwing Click to send Darkwing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Just so I've got the correct ruling...

Is it possible to "Oblivion Ring" a creature with Shroud or Hexproof?
(for some reason I vaguely remember a conversion about this, but can't recall the details...or maybe it was Oblivion Ring in relation to Emrakul?)

Thanks!

 
Sovarius
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posted April 04, 2012 03:03 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Darkwing:
Is it possible to "Oblivion Ring" a creature with Shroud or Hexproof?

O-ring still says "target" so it does not hit Thrun and such.

The relation between it and Emrakul is that Emrakul has protection from colored spells. O-ring does not exile anything until it is a permanent.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Sovarius on April 04, 2012]

 
tragicmagic
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posted April 04, 2012 03:06 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for tragicmagic Click Here to Email tragicmagic Send a private message to tragicmagic Click to send tragicmagic an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View tragicmagic's Trade Auction or SaleView tragicmagic's Trade Auction or Sale
Does x2 Parallel Lives and x1 Beacon of Creation result in infinite tokens?
 
Devonin
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posted April 04, 2012 03:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
No. You just get 4 times the tokens you would on a normal resolution of the Beacon.

Beacon's effect says, say "Make 4 insects" and Parallel Lives one says "No double it, it's 8!" and the second says "No double it, it's 16!" and then the spell resolves making 16 guys.

They don't each see the ending effect and trigger off each other which is what I assume you were thinking might happen.

 
tragicmagic
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posted April 04, 2012 04:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for tragicmagic Click Here to Email tragicmagic Send a private message to tragicmagic Click to send tragicmagic an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View tragicmagic's Trade Auction or SaleView tragicmagic's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by yakusoku:
Yes, you can.

First of all, note that Spark Elemental's Oracle text reads as this:

The Comprehensive rules cover this pretty clearly. At the beginning of the end step, you sacrifice Spark Elemental, then both players get priority to play spells.

[QUOTE]Comprehensive Rules:


513.1. First, all abilities that trigger "at the beginning of the end step" or "at the beginning of the next end step" go on the stack.

513.1a Previously, abilities that trigger at the beginning of the end step were printed with the trigger condition "at end of turn." Cards that were printed with that text have received errata in the Oracle card reference to say "at the beginning of the end step" or "at the beginning of the next end step."

513.2. Second, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities.


[/QUOTE]

Let me clarify, what if it says "At the end of turn, sacrifice this creature".

 
Devonin
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posted April 04, 2012 04:50 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
513.1a Previously, abilities that trigger at the beginning of the end step were printed with the trigger condition "at end of turn." Cards that were printed with that text have received errata in the Oracle card reference to say "at the beginning of the end step" or "at the beginning of the next end step."


If it said "At End of Turn" it now says "At the beginning of the end step"

 
tragicmagic
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posted April 04, 2012 04:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for tragicmagic Click Here to Email tragicmagic Send a private message to tragicmagic Click to send tragicmagic an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View tragicmagic's Trade Auction or SaleView tragicmagic's Trade Auction or Sale
Sorry, should have read closer! Thanks!
 
VJames83
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posted April 05, 2012 08:37 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for VJames83 Click Here to Email VJames83 Send a private message to VJames83 Click to send VJames83 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View VJames83's Have/Want ListView VJames83's Have/Want List
My opponent casts Snapcaster Mage, targeting Brainstorm in his graveyard. In response, I cast Stonecloaker, targeting that Brainstorm. What happens?
 
Sovarius
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posted April 05, 2012 09:35 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by VJames83:
My opponent casts Snapcaster Mage, targeting Brainstorm in his graveyard. In response, I cast Stonecloaker, targeting that Brainstorm. What happens?

First of all, snappy doesn't target any cards when it is being cast, just so you know.
Second, Snap's ability goes on the stack targeting Brainstorm, Stonecloaker's ability goes on the stack next targeting Brainstorm. Cloak's ability will resolve first, exiling the Storm. Snap's ability has no more target, and does nothing.

 
VJames83
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posted April 05, 2012 12:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for VJames83 Click Here to Email VJames83 Send a private message to VJames83 Click to send VJames83 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View VJames83's Have/Want ListView VJames83's Have/Want List
Oh, I see. Is Snappy's 'target' ability a triggered ability?

Thanks for the feedback.

 
Sovarius
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posted April 05, 2012 01:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
Well, the target is a card.
But yes it's a triggered ability. His triggered ability targets a card.

Activated abilities are those with a cost: effect, triggered abilities are your various if and when statements.

 
ryan2754
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posted April 05, 2012 09:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryan2754 Click Here to Email ryan2754 Send a private message to ryan2754 Click to send ryan2754 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryan2754's Have/Want ListView ryan2754's Have/Want List
I have a Maelstrom Nexus in play. I play a cascade spell. Do I get 2 cascade triggers?

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