quote:

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Originally posted by Trumpeter:
If a player has out Platinum Angel, has 0 life and casts Cloudshift on Platinum Angel (to avoid it being destroyed), does that player lose?

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No. The angel is exiled and returned to play all while the cloudshift is resolving. State based effects are not checked until after cloudshift resolves, and they still see the Angel in play. However, because it left the field and returned, the game treats it as a new object, and whatever kill spell was targeting it is still pointed at the 'previous' angel, not this one.

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[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
My opponent has a Fiend Hunter and I have two creatures in play.  My opponent casts Cloudshift targeting his Fiend Hunter, then puts its enters the battlefield ability on the stack without announcing a target to be removed and Cloudshifts it again to target another creature.  Since a target wasn't announced when it reentered the battlefield from the first Cloudshift, how many creatures will my opponent be able to exile with the Fiend Hunter?

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quote:

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Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
My opponent has a Fiend Hunter and I have two creatures in play.  My opponent casts Cloudshift targeting his Fiend Hunter, then puts its enters the battlefield ability on the stack without announcing a target to be removed and Cloudshifts it again to target another creature.  Since a target wasn't announced when it reentered the battlefield from the first Cloudshift, how many creatures will my opponent be able to exile with the Fiend Hunter?

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Your opp is A) doing it wrong and B) blackmage has actually got it wrong.

Im going to simplify it a bit, and change the scenario to: "I have 2 dudes in play. My opp casts fiend hunter, then with it's ETB trigger on the stack, cloudshifts it. What happens?"

Fiend Hunter enters battlefield for the first time, exile trigger goes onto the stack WITH A TARGET. This trigger CANNOT exist without a target, he MUST choose one immediately to even put the trigger on the stack.

Original ETB trigger on the stack, opp cloudshifts it. Cloudshift resolves. Hunter is exiled and then returns. BOTH its 'leaves battlefield' and 'enters battlefield' abilities now go on the stack, because all the instructions on cloudshift must be completed before anything else can happen. Controller orders them as he pleases, it doesnt matter. Lets say he does it like this:

Top of Stack
"Leaves the Battlefield" - - because of cloudshift
"Enters the Battlefield" - - because of cloudshift
"Enters the Battlefield" - - original trigger
Bottom of Stack

The leaves battlefield trigger resolves, tries to return the FIRST creature exiled, fails because that creature is NOT yet exiled. Then the top ETB resolves, exiling a creature. This creature will come back when fiend hunter leaves the battlefield. Then, the original ETB effect resolves, exiling a creature FOREVER.

There's also a ruling at the bottom of the fiend hunter link that verifies this.
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[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Originally posted by tragicmagic:
Is mana cutting in between games legal at PTQ level? Ie. Separating all your land from your deck, and putting two cards down, then one land, etc.

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It looks to have the same wording as Phantasmal Image but, PI's rules text on magiccards.info specifically says it doesn't target.

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quote:

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Originally posted by harbingerofthevoid:
Phyrexian Metamorph doesn't target does it?

It looks to have the same wording as Phantasmal Image but, PI's rules text on magiccards.info specifically says it doesn't target.

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Unless a spell or ability actually uses the word "target" it doesn't target, so neither Phyrexian Metamorph nor Phantasmal Image target.

I have a gideon Jura in play with 6 loyalty counters.
My opponent has cursed me with a curse of echoes

My opponenet casts inferno titan, dealing 3 to gideon.
My opponent casts slagstorm, targeting players, redirecting to gideon.

I divine deflection for 8. He gets a copy of it for 8.

Can I save my gideon?

We broke it down as so:

His deflection resolves first
then mine
then slagstorm

his barrier is in place, then mine, then slagstorm resolves.

He redirects the 3 damage to me to gideon. He redirects the 3 damage from himself to gideon.
I prevent 4 damage from gideon and redirect to inferno.
He prevents 4 from infero and targets gideon
I prevent the 2 from gideon and target him.

He takes two, I take two, gideon is at 1 loyalty.

Did we play this out properly?

Keep in mind divine deflection states 'prevent the next X damage that would be dealt this turn' and 'whenever damage is prevented from ~ this way, you may deal (x) damage to target creature/player' the aspect that got us was 'this turn'.

First, Divine Deflection has ONE target; the creature or player you will be redirecting all your damage to. And you must choose it when casting. So you dealing 4 to the Inferno and then later dealing 2 to your opponent can't happen.
Second, there's a math error in there. Your opponent prevents 3 from slagstorm, and then 4 from your first DD damage prevention. That makes 7 so far; where is the eighth point?
Third, there is another rules error. I prevent 4 damage from gideon and redirect to inferno. 4? How did you come up with 4? DD does NOT give you an option to only prevent some of the damage.

What should have happened...
In this situation, for every point that YOUR Divine Deflection prevents, it will cause a point of damage to go to your opponent or his Titan, whichever you targetted. And HIS Divine Deflection will prevent that and send it back. This will continue until both Deflections have prevented 8 points of damage and are done. The net result is that you(and ultimately Gideon) will end up taking three points of damage when Slagstorm finally finishing resolving. The three points of damage your opponent was due to take will end up either on himself or his Titan, whichever you targetted.

Can I save my gideon? The only way to save your Gideon in this case would have been to target a creature under YOUR control with YOUR Deflection. You would be able to prevent all 6 of the damage from Slagstorm and your creature would take it instead. And his Deflection wouldn't be involved other than dealing with the three from Slagstorm to him.

Pail42 - Butcher Orgg doesn't care about plainswalkers. Planeswalkers are a different story.
Butcher Orgg can not use his special ability to damage an enemy planeswalker. The ability only allows distributing the combat damage to creatures and enemy players. And since it is still combat damage, you can not apply damage to the defending player and then redirect it to his planeswalker. The only way to damage an enemy planeswalker with Butcher Orgg is to have the Orgg attack the planeswalker, get through unblocked, and deal all 6 damage to the planeswalker. Or give him trample and have him trample over blockers.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pail42:
I'm going to go ahead and blame the planeswalker thing on my phone's autocorrect .

So since the orgg's ability can only divide amongst players and creatures, if I attack a planeswalker I could have him deal 0 there and instead redirect amongst the player and his critters.

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~MM

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quote:

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Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
If a player controls 2 Demonic Rising and 1 creature in play, do they check the game state at the same time and they get 2 tokens are does each 1 check individually, resulting in 1 token.

~MM

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From Gatherer:

"5/1/2012 If you control zero creatures or more than one creature at the beginning of your end step, the ability won't trigger. If you control zero creatures or more than one creature when the ability resolves, it will do nothing."

They will both trigger, but only the first one to resolve will give you a token.

quote:

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Originally posted by B14ckM4g3:
Secondary note: As [divine] deflection says target player, can I redirect the damage to myself if I do not have a creature?

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My opponent is playing Legacy show and tell. He casts Show and Tell. We both place a creature into play: Emrakul for him and Nekrataal for me (or Gilded Drake or Aether Adept or any creature that has an ETB effect that targets Emrakul).

Does this work? Do both creatures really enter at the same time, saving my butt? Or is there a weird stacking rule?

quote:

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Originally posted by Ashnod'sPants:
ok - can you clear this up for me?

My opponent is playing Legacy show and tell. He casts Show and Tell. We both place a creature into play: Emrakul for him and Nekrataal for me (or Gilded Drake or Aether Adept or any creature that has an ETB effect that targets Emrakul).

Does this work? Do both creatures really enter at the same time, saving my butt? Or is there a weird stacking rule?

thanks.

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Rulings from Gatherer:
10/4/2004 If the cards being put onto the battlefield also require choices, those choices are made after all players choose their card. The active player makes choices for their card (if any), then the other players (if any) in turn order.
10/4/2004 Players choose cards during resolution, not announcement.
4/1/2008 The current player chooses first, then each other player chooses in turn order. A player does not have to reveal the chosen card, so long as it is clear *which* card was chosen. After all choices are made, the cards are put onto the battlefield simultaneously.

Both creatures ETB. Nekrataal triggers. Go ahead and target Emrakul.

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"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Comprehensive Rules:

112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability.

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The mana cost of the spell is the cost printed on the card.
The converted mana cost is a number equal to the total amount of mana printed on the card regardless of color.
The total cost is how much the spell will cost after all cost increasers and cost reducers have been applied.

If the total cost is less than three, Trinisphere raises it to three.

In your case, Chalice of the Void with X=1:
Mana cost is 2
Converted mana cost is 2
Total cost would be 2, but Trinisphere makes it 3.

Here is another example to help clarify:
Fireball with X=4
Mana cost is 4R
CMC is 5
Total cost is 4R.
It costs 5 mana, so Trinisphere leaves it alone.

Fireball with X=4 and 4 Ruby Medallion in play
Mana cost is 4R
CMC is 5
Total cost would be R(due to Medallions).
It would cost 1 mana, so Trinisphere adds 2 generic mana to the total cost so it costs 3 mana(2R).

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