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Author Topic:   The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 51: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
Loathing
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posted April 05, 2012 10:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Loathing Click Here to Email Loathing Send a private message to Loathing Click to send Loathing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ryan2754:
I have a Maelstrom Nexus in play. I play a cascade spell. Do I get 2 cascade triggers?

If it's the first spell you played that turn, sure.

 
orcishartillery
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posted April 06, 2012 10:55 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for orcishartillery Send a private message to orcishartillery Click to send orcishartillery an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sovarius:
Activated abilities are those with a cost: effect, triggered abilities are your various if and when statements.

Triggered abilities use one of the words "When", "Whenever", or "At", followed by a trigger condition. "If ... instead" indicates a replacement effect, not a triggered ability.
 
rockondon
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posted April 06, 2012 11:13 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for rockondon Click Here to Email rockondon Send a private message to rockondon Click to send rockondon an Instant MessageVisit rockondon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rockondon's Have/Want ListView rockondon's Have/Want List
If I'm playing a multiplayer game and someone casts a spell, lets say a disenchant, and I respond by casting a spell to kill that player (eg, lightning bolt), would his disenchant fizzle?
 
yakusoku
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posted April 06, 2012 12:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for yakusoku Click Here to Email yakusoku Send a private message to yakusoku Click to send yakusoku an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rockondon:
If I'm playing a multiplayer game and someone casts a spell, lets say a disenchant, and I respond by casting a spell to kill that player (eg, lightning bolt), would his disenchant fizzle?

It doesn't "fizzle", however...

quote:
Comprehensive Rules:

800.4a When a player leaves the game, all objects (see rule 109) owned by that player leave the game, any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end, and
all spells and abilities controlled by that player on the stack cease to exist. Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the player leaves the game. If the player who left the game had priority at the time he or she left, priority passes to the next player in turn order who's still in the game.


So, the Disenchant will not resolve.

 
Timmyhill
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posted April 07, 2012 04:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Timmyhill Click Here to Email Timmyhill Send a private message to Timmyhill Click to send Timmyhill an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Timmyhill's Have/Want ListView Timmyhill's Have/Want List
What happens if I use a Frost Titan to tap Grafdigger's Cage?

I remember a while back people taping howling mines to stop the card drawing... but I don't remember if that was right or not.

 
caquaa
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posted April 07, 2012 04:43 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Timmyhill:
What happens if I use a Frost Titan to tap Grafdigger's Cage?

I remember a while back people taping howling mines to stop the card drawing... but I don't remember if that was right or not.


then you have a tapped grafdigger's cage, nothing more.
That rule was removed quite a long while ago and some cards received an errata to make them work as they previously did, others did not.

Howling Mine:
At the beginning of each player's draw step, if Howling Mine is untapped, that player draws an additional card.

as you can see, howling mine works as you remember it, but its for a different reason these days.

 
Darkesthour
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posted April 07, 2012 03:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Darkesthour Click Here to Email Darkesthour Send a private message to Darkesthour Click to send Darkesthour an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hi, I've been out of magic for awhile and have some questions about the removal of the stack from combat(I think thats what I read)I know you can no longer block with Mogg Fanatic and then put damage on stack and then sac him doing two damage to a creature but can u still declare him as a blocker and then sac him to do one damage while preventing and attack on you? Also how does this new rule effect pumping a creature with either firebreathing or leonine sun standard. Do you have to do it all before the attack phase? Thanks
 
mattw
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posted April 07, 2012 04:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mattw Click Here to Email mattw Send a private message to mattw Click to send mattw an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mattw's Have/Want ListView mattw's Have/Want List
If I have a propaganda in play do my opponents have to pay 2 to attack a planeswalker I control?

Edit:
You can declare mogg fanatic as a blocker and sac him to deal the one damage to something and still have whatever creature it blocked remain blocked.

As with pumping effects, attackers are declared, priority goes to you and opponent, blockers are declared, then you can pump up your dudes, opponent can respond and then you can respond to that and so forth. Then damage would all be dealt simultaneously, barring first strike and whatnot.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by mattw on April 07, 2012]

 
Devonin
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posted April 08, 2012 06:07 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by mattw:
If I have a propaganda in play do my opponents have to pay 2 to attack a planeswalker I control?

The Oracle Text on Propaganda says "Creatures cannot attack you unless"

The Oracle Text on Norn's Annex says "Creatures cannot attack you or a Planeswalker you control unless"

So there's obviously a distinction at the moment that means with Propaganda/Ghostly Prison etc, you can still freely attack someone's Planeswalkers.

Edit: The same isn't true of cards that give you protection/immunity from being targetted with spells, since spells are targetted at the player, and then the damage can be redirected to a Planeswalker. So while Propaganda means they can still attack your Jace, Leyline of Sanctity means they can't Bolt your Jace since they need to target you first.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Devonin on April 08, 2012]

 
Darkesthour
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posted April 15, 2012 07:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Darkesthour Click Here to Email Darkesthour Send a private message to Darkesthour Click to send Darkesthour an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If my opponent has royal assassin and I attack, can he destroy the creature before it deals damage? Please explain the timing on this as well. Thank you
 
thror
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posted April 15, 2012 08:45 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Darkesthour:
If my opponent has royal assassin and I attack, can he destroy the creature before it deals damage? Please explain the timing on this as well. Thank you

Combat has the following steps:
Beginning of combat (both players may cast instants/activated abilities, nothing else happens)
Declare attackers (active player declares attacking creatures, tapping them, then each player may cast instants/activate abilities)
Declare blockers (defending player/s declare blocks. attacking player orders blockers. then each player may cast instants/activate abilities)
Combat damage (creatures in combat all deal damage SIMULTANEOUSLY, then each player may cast instants/activate abilities)
End of combat (each player may cast instants/activate abilities, nothing else happens)

At any time before the combat damage step, if your attacking creature is killed, it will deal no damage. So your opponent has 2 places to kill your guy, in the attack step, and in the block step. Once you get into the combat damage step, it is too late to pump/regenerate/remove a creature from combat to save it.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself


[Edited 1 times, lastly by thror on April 15, 2012]

 
Sovarius
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posted April 15, 2012 08:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Darkesthour:
If my opponent has royal assassin and I attack, can he destroy the creature before it deals damage? Please explain the timing on this as well. Thank you

Your best bet is to check out a turn structure chart.

To answer your questions simply; yes.

There are multiple steps in the combat phase. After you declare attackers, players receive priority and cast spells and activate abilities and what not. This is when Assassin can do his thing. After declaring blockers, players receive priority again. Assassin could do it at either of these times.

The damage being removed from the stack bit means you can't assign damage, then cast spells and activate abilities.

 
Darkesthour
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posted April 15, 2012 08:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Darkesthour Click Here to Email Darkesthour Send a private message to Darkesthour Click to send Darkesthour an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
what and where is this turn structure chart and thanks for the input
 
thror
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posted April 15, 2012 09:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Darkesthour:
what and where is this turn structure chart and thanks for the input

http://www.wizards.com/magic/rules/EN_MTGM12_Rulebook_web.pdf
Page 17 - Parts of a Turn

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
flavor_of_the_weak
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posted April 18, 2012 05:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for flavor_of_the_weak Send a private message to flavor_of_the_weak Click to send flavor_of_the_weak an Instant MessageVisit flavor_of_the_weak's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View flavor_of_the_weak's Have/Want ListView flavor_of_the_weak's Have/Want List
Can i turn Grand Architect to a artifact during my upkeep so i can pay the upkeep of Esperzoa?

__________________
I'm Back,Ready To Do Alot of Trading

R.I.P Lucky (1997-2003).

 
Sovarius
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posted April 18, 2012 05:43 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by flavor_of_the_weak:
Can i turn Grand Architect to a artifact during my upkeep so i can pay the upkeep of Esperzoa?


Yes.

But are you reading the card correct? You seem to think that Grand Architect can make artifacts, he makes blue creatures.

If you did something else to turn Architect into an artifact at instant speed during your upkeep, you can then use him to do esperzoa's upkeep

 
ectomanic
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posted April 18, 2012 07:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ectomanic Click Here to Email ectomanic Send a private message to ectomanic Click to send ectomanic an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
two questions same board state

board: i have mycosynth lattice, march of machines, quicksilver elemental, nicol bolas planeswalker, and garruk wildspeaker in play

question 1: i use the elementals abilty to use nicols + ability can i pay another blue to use garruks ability since quicksilver is not a planeswalker?

question 2: if i use the last of the loyalty on one of the planeswalkers does it still leave play even though it has a toughness?

 
Sovarius
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posted April 18, 2012 07:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
Question 2; A planeswalker still ceases to exist when it has no loyalty counters, doesn't matter if it's a creature.
 
Kyzneg
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posted April 18, 2012 09:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ectomanic:
two questions same board state

board: i have mycosynth lattice, march of machines, quicksilver elemental, nicol bolas planeswalker, and garruk wildspeaker in play

question 1: i use the elementals abilty to use nicols + ability can i pay another blue to use garruks ability since quicksilver is not a planeswalker?

question 2: if i use the last of the loyalty on one of the planeswalkers does it still leave play even though it has a toughness?


For question one, the restriction of once per turn is tied to loyalty abilities in general, it's no longer a characteristic of the planeswalker card type. The relevant rule text is:

quote:
MTG Comprehensive Rules #606.3:
A player may activate a loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has priority and the stack is empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if none of that permanent's loyalty abilities have been activated that turn.

So since you already activated a loyalty ability of Quicksilver Elemental (the Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker's +3 ability in this case), you can't activate another loyalty ability, regardless of whether it's another of the abilities gained from Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker or an ability gained from Garruk Wildspeaker.

Regarding question two, Planeswalkers with 0 loyalty counters are put into their owner's graveyard as a state-based action, regardless of their other card types (So for example, if a Gideon Jura that has been turned into a creature with his third ability has his counters removed by a Vampire Hexmage's ability, it will still be put into it's owner's graveyard). However, Quicksilver Elemental only copies the abilities, not the card type, so you can reduce the number of loyalty counters on Quicksilver Elemental to 0 without it being put into your graveyard.

 
tragicmagic
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posted April 19, 2012 10:25 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for tragicmagic Click Here to Email tragicmagic Send a private message to tragicmagic Click to send tragicmagic an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View tragicmagic's Trade Auction or SaleView tragicmagic's Trade Auction or Sale
I've read that having two Parallel Lives in play doesn't create infinite tokens. Is it because they are the same card? And does that mean having a Parallel Lives and a Doubling Season in play would generate infinite tokens?
 
thror
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posted April 19, 2012 10:49 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by tragicmagic:
I've read that having two Parallel Lives in play doesn't create infinite tokens. Is it because they are the same card? And does that mean having a Parallel Lives and a Doubling Season in play would generate infinite tokens?

Parallel lives is Cumulative. If you have 1 in play, any time you would get a token, it puts 2 into play instead. If you have more, the first one makes it 2, the next makes it 4, a third in play would make it 8, and so on. Doubling season works the same way. Each enchantment doubles it once, and that's it. You do not get infinite tokens.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself


[Edited 1 times, lastly by thror on April 19, 2012]

 
tragicmagic
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posted April 19, 2012 10:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for tragicmagic Click Here to Email tragicmagic Send a private message to tragicmagic Click to send tragicmagic an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View tragicmagic's Trade Auction or SaleView tragicmagic's Trade Auction or Sale
Is there's a specific ruling errata I can cite on that? I am having a hard time explaining it to one of my customers, and he is pretty adamant that it DOES work.
 
thror
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posted April 19, 2012 11:07 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89116

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=249662

At the very bottom: If there are two Doubling Seasons on the battlefield, then the number of tokens or counters is four times the original number. If there are three on the battlefield, then the number of tokens or counters is eight times the original number.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

[Edited 1 times, lastly by thror on April 19, 2012]

 
WestWycke
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posted April 19, 2012 11:53 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for WestWycke Click Here to Email WestWycke Send a private message to WestWycke Click to send WestWycke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Here is the Comprehensive Rules section that explicitly specifies it, including the WotC-provided example that is pretty much exactly the same as your problem except it is about doubling damage instead of tokens.

614.5. A replacement effect doesn’t invoke itself repeatedly; it gets only one opportunity to affect an event or any modified events that may replace it.
Example: A player controls two permanents, each with an ability that reads “If a creature you control would deal damage to a creature or player, it deals double that damage to that creature or player instead.” A creature that normally deals 2 damage will deal 8 damage—not just 4, and not an infinite amount.

__________________
"If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the other 3% ?"

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good."

 
flavor_of_the_weak
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posted April 20, 2012 05:42 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for flavor_of_the_weak Send a private message to flavor_of_the_weak Click to send flavor_of_the_weak an Instant MessageVisit flavor_of_the_weak's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View flavor_of_the_weak's Have/Want ListView flavor_of_the_weak's Have/Want List
If you ask the player how many cards they have left in the library do they have to tell you, cos a player in a draft tourney said the player doesn't have to tell you.

__________________
I'm Back,Ready To Do Alot of Trading

R.I.P Lucky (1997-2003).

 

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