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Author	Topic: The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 51: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
orcishartillery Member	posted May 15, 2012 12:29 PM quote: Originally posted by southparker2002: Say I have a Pariah and a Treacherous Link on a Stuffy Doll. If I use the Stuffy Doll to ping itself, will that damage go back and forth between me and the creature over and over again till my opponent is dead? No. Pariah and Treacherous Link both create replacement effects. Stuffy Doll would deal 1 damage to itself. Treacherous Link replaces that with dealing 1 damage to you. Pariah replaces that with dealing 1 damage to Stuffy Doll. There are no more replacement effects to apply, so Stuffy Doll deals 1 damage to itself, which triggers its ability, dealing 1 damage to your opponent. Replace Treacherous Link with Binding Agony, however, and you've got a combo. Stuffy Doll deals 1 damage to itself. That triggers Binding Agony to deal 1 damage to you, but Pariah replaces that with dealing 1 damage to Stuffy Doll, which causes a loop. Stuffy Doll's triggered ability deals 1 damage to your opponent each time through the loop.
southparker2002 Member	posted May 15, 2012 12:44 PM quote: Originally posted by orcishartillery: [QUOTE]Originally posted by southparker2002: Say I have a Pariah and a Treacherous Link on a Stuffy Doll. If I use the Stuffy Doll to ping itself, will that damage go back and forth between me and the creature over and over again till my opponent is dead? No. Pariah and Treacherous Link both create replacement effects. Stuffy Doll would deal 1 damage to itself. Treacherous Link replaces that with dealing 1 damage to you. Pariah replaces that with dealing 1 damage to Stuffy Doll. There are no more replacement effects to apply, so Stuffy Doll deals 1 damage to itself, which triggers its ability, dealing 1 damage to your opponent. Replace Treacherous Link with Binding Agony, however, and you've got a combo. Stuffy Doll deals 1 damage to itself. That triggers Binding Agony to deal 1 damage to you, but Pariah replaces that with dealing 1 damage to Stuffy Doll, which causes a loop. Stuffy Doll's triggered ability deals 1 damage to your opponent each time through the loop.[/QUOTE] Thanks, now I'll just add a Lifelink and I'm good!
Skwirlnutz Member	posted May 16, 2012 05:36 PM Okay so lets say I have Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter out with ZERO Counters on him, I also have a Horobi, Death's Wail out. Can I still activate Vish Kal's ability even though he has zero counters and Target a creature anyways so it will automatically die with Horobi's Ability? It doesnt say I have to have any counters on Vishy to activate him.
FleeceItOut Member	posted May 16, 2012 07:04 PM quote: Originally posted by Skwirlnutz: Okay so lets say I have Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter out with ZERO Counters on him, I also have a Horobi, Death's Wail out. Can I still activate Vish Kal's ability even though he has zero counters and Target a creature anyways so it will automatically die with Horobi's Ability? It doesnt say I have to have any counters on Vishy to activate him. Yes you can, Vish Kal + Horobi is a thing that you can do since Vish Kal says remove all and not remove a.
B14ckM4g3 Member	posted May 16, 2012 09:16 PM Miracle and fetchlands: I draw a miracle card. I have a fetchland on the feild. Can I draw the miracle, fetch for the land (thus shuffling my library), and then cast the miracle card (IE thunderous wrath)
WeedIan Member	posted May 16, 2012 11:29 PM quote: Originally posted by B14ckM4g3: Miracle and fetchlands: I draw a miracle card. I have a fetchland on the feild. Can I draw the miracle, fetch for the land (thus shuffling my library), and then cast the miracle card (IE thunderous wrath) You can respond to the trigger that lets you cast the spell by activating a fetchland to get the land you need to cast it. It uses the stack just like any other triggered ability. __________________ Member Since 03/28/2001 12000+ posts 1st in posts in Ontario 11th in posts on MOTL 5th in Refs in Ontario Pushing to get to top 100 in MOTL Refs
thror Member	posted May 16, 2012 11:39 PM quote: Originally posted by B14ckM4g3: Miracle and fetchlands: I draw a miracle card. I have a fetchland on the feild. Can I draw the miracle, fetch for the land (thus shuffling my library), and then cast the miracle card (IE thunderous wrath) As long as you realize you've already drawn the miracle card, and you arent shuffling it into and casting it from your library, and then drawing a fresh card. __________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there." [16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for? [16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted [19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself
Trumpeter New Member	posted May 17, 2012 12:24 PM If an opponent targets my creature with a Doom Blade, I cast Ranger's Guile in response and I have a Wild Defiance (which is awesome, by the way) in play, then will the fact that it was targeted by Doom Blade be nullified by the Hexproof given in response and therefore not getting the +3/+3 from the Wild Defiance for the Doom Blade? Or does it not matter what happens after Doom Blade was cast, just as long as the creature was declared a target? So, does it get +3/+3 from the Doom Blade and a +3/+3 from the Ranger's Guile even though Doom Blade was "countered"? If so, damn! That's even more awesome! Does the same thing apply to a creature being the target of Giant Growth, but the Giant Growth being countered? If it was successfully countered, would the Wild Defiance still be good and you still get at least 1 +3/+3 for your efforts? Thanks in advance. Sorry about the number of questions
Sovarius Member	posted May 17, 2012 12:44 PM Trumpeter - The +3+3 goes on the stack on top of Doom Blade, then you can Guile, and +3+3 also goes on the stack. It gets beefed, gets hecproof, gets beefed, Doom Blade has an illegal target. It does not matter what happens to spell targeting the creature, only that it became a target at all. The same goes for Giant Growth. __________________ Looking to buy any Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief oddities/pimp. My trades My sales
WestWycke Member	posted May 17, 2012 01:00 PM Let's just walk through this and watch what happens. Your opponent casts Doom Blade, putting it on the stack(1) and targetting your creature. This triggers Wild Defiance. The Wild Defiance trigger goes on the stack(2). You respond to all this by casting Ranger's Guile, putting it on the stack(3) and targetting yor creature. This triggers Wild Defiance. The Wild Defiance trigger goes on the stack(4). Nothing else happens, so we start resolving objects on the stack. (4) Wild Defiance trigger resolves. Your creature is now +3/+3. (3) Ranger's Guile resolves. Your creature is now +4/+4 and has hexproof. (2) Wild Defiance trigger resolves. Your creature is now +7/+7 and has hexproof. (1) Doom Blade tries to resolve. Your creature has become an illegal target due to having hexproof, so Doom Blade is countered on Resolution. The key you are looking for is the fact that Wild Defiance triggers whenever a spell is cast targetting one of your creatures. Whether the spell successfully resolves is immaterial. In fact, ordinarily the trigger will resolve while the original spell is still on the stack waiting to try and resolve. __________________ "If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the other 3% ?" "I intend to live forever. So far, so good." [Edited 1 times, lastly by WestWycke on May 17, 2012]
GenghisTom Member	posted May 17, 2012 01:03 PM quote: Originally posted by thror: As long as you realize you've already drawn the miracle card, and you arent shuffling it into and casting it from your library, and then drawing a fresh card. I have a follow up question: So where is the miracle card while he's fetching for the land? Is it in the hand? In the library? Or in some middle zone? I assume this question sprouts from the instance where Somebody would have one land in play (fetch), and they draw red miracle and want to play it for the one mana miracle cost but are unsure if they fetch for the land they may mess it up.
WestWycke Member	posted May 17, 2012 01:20 PM quote: Originally posted by Comprehensive Rules: 702.92a Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability (see rule 603.10). “Miracle [cost]” means “You may reveal this card from your hand as you draw it if it’s the first card you’ve drawn this turn. When you reveal this card this way, you may cast it by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost.” 702.92b If a player chooses to reveal a card using its miracle ability, he or she plays with that card revealed until that card leaves his or her hand, that ability resolves, or that ability otherwise leaves the stack. The physical mechanics would be that you would draw it from the top of your deck keeping it separate from any other cards in your hand, look at it, reveal it and announce your intent to play it for it's miracle cost. Then you could set it down face-up somewhere not near other face-up cards. You want it to stay revealed, but not get confused with any other cards. Officially, even though it remains revealed it is considered to be in your hand. Then you would go through the actions of cracking the fetchland in response to the trigger, and finally casting the miracle card from your hand when the trigger resolves. __________________ "If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the other 3% ?" "I intend to live forever. So far, so good." [Edited 3 times, lastly by WestWycke on May 17, 2012]
TimeBeing Member	posted May 17, 2012 03:22 PM quote: Originally posted by GenghisTom: So where is the miracle card while he's fetching for the land? Is it in the hand? In the library? Or in some middle zone? It's in your Hand. Reveled but in your hand. If someone had instant speed discard they could remove it from your hand and you would not get to cast it when the miracle trigger resolved.
skizzikmonger Member	posted May 17, 2012 05:16 PM Soulbond question. If I have an unpaired Wolfir Silverheart in play, and I play an Inkmoth Nexus during my first main phase and activate it, can I pair it with the Wolfir Silverheart to get the bonus before attacking?
Sovarius Member	posted May 17, 2012 05:36 PM No, it came is a land (which does not active Soulbond), then it had it's type changed but was already in play (as the same card, if not the same card types). __________________ Looking to buy any Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief oddities/pimp. My trades My sales
Bentiko Member	posted May 18, 2012 06:45 AM If someone have Carven of Souls in the play with human, can my Chalice of the Void with a counter on it, counter a Champion of Parish? __________________ -Hey! Look! My nipples can cut through glass! -I watched porn with Closed Caption! -I love school, when it's over... -God, the singing is nails on a chalkboard. -They say I have A.D.D. they just don't understand me. Oh look! A squirrel!! [Edited 2 times, lastly by Bentiko on May 18, 2012]
orcishartillery Member	posted May 18, 2012 10:28 AM quote: Originally posted by Bentiko: If someone have Carnival of Souls in the play with human, can my Chalice of the Void with a counter on it, counter a Champion of Parish? Could you provide some insight into why you're asking this question? There is no interaction between Carnival of Souls and Chalice of the Void.
Bentiko Member	posted May 18, 2012 10:46 AM Ooop! Fix but it's Cavern of Souls actually..... __________________ -Hey! Look! My nipples can cut through glass! -I watched porn with Closed Caption! -I love school, when it's over... -God, the singing is nails on a chalkboard. -They say I have A.D.D. they just don't understand me. Oh look! A squirrel!!
Sovarius Member	posted May 18, 2012 01:33 PM quote: Originally posted by Bentiko: If someone have Carven of Souls in the play with human, can my Chalice of the Void with a counter on it, counter a Champion of Parish? No, it can't be countered. Cavern does not specify that it can't be countered by spells, only that it can't be countered. __________________ Looking to buy any Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief oddities/pimp. My trades My sales
B14ckM4g3 Member	posted May 20, 2012 09:23 PM another miracle question: I have 1 card in hand, dangerous wager. I draw the two cards on my opponents turn. Do I draw them one at a time, and if the first one is revealed I can cast as a miracle? Or are both drawn at the same time, and I can cast either at the miracle cost (if it applies)? Or does the miracle become negated as I draw card 1 and 2 at the same time, thus making it no longer the first card drawn? Would love some clarification here. edit: If possible, a link to the rulings section on miracle so I can better understand it. [Edited 1 times, lastly by B14ckM4g3 on May 20, 2012]
yakusoku Member	posted May 20, 2012 09:49 PM Here's the Avacyn Restored FAQ. quote: Multiple card draws are always treated as a sequence of individual card draws. For example, if you haven't drawn any cards yet during a turn and cast a spell that instructs you to draw three cards, you'll draw them one at a time. Only the first card drawn this way may be revealed and cast using its miracle ability. For Dangerous Wager, you draw two cards, one at a time, and if the first one is a miracle card, you may reveal it. Only the FIRST card drawn may be revealed and cast for its miralce cost. Also, here's the section from the Comprehensive Rules about Miracle: quote: Comprehensive Rules: 702.92. Miracle 702.92a Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability (see rule 603.10). "Miracle [cost]" means "You may reveal this card from your hand as you draw it if it's the first card you've drawn this turn. When you reveal this card this way, you may cast it by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost." 702.92b If a player chooses to reveal a card using its miracle ability, he or she plays with that card revealed until that card leaves his or her hand, that ability resolves, or that ability otherwise leaves the stack.
B14ckM4g3 Member	posted May 20, 2012 10:06 PM thanks! that helps me muchly.
whocares Member	posted May 21, 2012 01:54 PM Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood Does this kill the other player instantly if an opponent loses 2 life or if i gain 2 life? Or does it trigger only once?
Sovarius Member	posted May 21, 2012 02:36 PM quote: Originally posted by whocares: Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood Does this kill the other player instantly if an opponent loses 2 life or if i gain 2 life? Or does it trigger only once? Yes it is infinite. Each instance of losing life and gaining life is seperate. __________________ Looking to buy any Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief oddities/pimp. My trades My sales
Devonin Member	posted May 21, 2012 02:41 PM More specifically, each one will trigger the other one, so it will chain for an unlimited amount of time if not interrupted. But between each one, state based actions do get checked, so a player will lose at the time their life is below zero, so it doesn't cause a draw because of an infinite loop.

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