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Author Topic:   The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 51: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
Tha Gunslinga
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posted March 17, 2012 05:09 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Tha Gunslinga Click Here to Email Tha Gunslinga Send a private message to Tha Gunslinga Click to send Tha Gunslinga an Instant MessageVisit Tha Gunslinga's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or SaleView Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or Sale
Post all your rules/tournament questions here and they will get answered. Please wait a bit before you think we ignored you, we all live lives outside of MOTL but we do answer when we see them.

If you are going to answer a question, please be 100% sure that your answer is correct. If you are just guessing or *think* you know the answer, keep it to yourself. There are plenty of judges and people who will know it correctly, and if multiple answers are given, it just confuses the person who asked.

This thread is a flame-free zone. If you can't be civil, don't respond. New players shouldn't be worried about being made fun of when they're trying to learn.

Some information for ya...

Comprehensive Rules (also available in Word, Rich Text, and PDF formats)
The complete rules for the game of Magic. Beginners should not go here; they are very intimidating.
Oracle Card Reference
The official text for every card in existence (use Gatherer for any quick questions about Oracle texts, Gatherer uses the Oracle text of all cards).
Official Tournament Rules
The official rules for sanctioned tournaments.
Basic Rulebook
Simplified rules for beginning players. If you are new to the game, you should read this and not the Comprehensive Rules.
Set FAQs
The official FAQs for each set. Look here if you have a specific question about a card.
Judge Certification Program
How to become a judge.
MTG-L mailing list archives
A good place to get official answers to rules questions, or to search for previous answers.
DCIJUDGE-L mailing list archives
The official Judge list. A good place to search for previous answers and discussion involving judging decisions, philosophy, etc. NOT rules questions. That's what MTG-L is for.

__________________
Looking for misprinted Commander decks. Got one? Talk to me.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by Tha Gunslinga on March 20, 2012]

denholm
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posted March 17, 2012 10:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for denholm Click Here to Email denholm Send a private message to denholm Click to send denholm an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View denholm's Trade Auction or SaleView denholm's Trade Auction or Sale
just wondering as I am building a Zedruu deck, if something hits the graveyard that I own but do not control, does it hit my opponents yard then mine or straight to mine?
 
Sovarius
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posted March 17, 2012 12:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
Straight to its owner's graveyard.
 
mm1983
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posted March 17, 2012 01:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mm1983 Click Here to Email mm1983 Send a private message to mm1983 Click to send mm1983 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mm1983's Have/Want ListView mm1983's Have/Want List
With a Glissa the Traitor in play if it gets copied with a Phyrexian Metamorph both the Glissa and Metamorph will die but will Glissa's ability allow you to bring Metamorph back to your hand?

 
Sovarius
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posted March 17, 2012 01:54 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
If you are copying an opponent's Glissa with your metamorph? Yes you can grab that same metamorph back.
 
skizzikmonger
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posted March 21, 2012 02:10 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
How does Platinum Emperion work with Phyrexian mana?  Can I cast a Surgical Extraction for free, or will I have to pay B since I can't lose life?
 
Kyzneg
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posted March 21, 2012 02:37 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
How does Platinum Emperion work with Phyrexian mana?  Can I cast a Surgical Extraction for free, or will I have to pay B since I can't lose life?

From the Gatherer rulings:

quote:
Gatherer:
1/1/2011: You can't pay a cost that includes the payment of any amount of life other than 0 life.

So you would have to pay {B} for any Phyrexian mana cards while you control Platinum Emperion.

 
VJames83
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posted March 21, 2012 03:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for VJames83 Click Here to Email VJames83 Send a private message to VJames83 Click to send VJames83 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View VJames83's Have/Want ListView VJames83's Have/Want List
I have an Aether Vial with 2 counters on it. My opponent casts Brainstorm. In response, I activate Vial and put Thalia, Guardian of Thraben into play.
-Does my opponent have to pay 1 colorless extra?
-If so, what happens if he can't pay the mana?
 
ryan2754
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posted March 21, 2012 04:40 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryan2754 Click Here to Email ryan2754 Send a private message to ryan2754 Click to send ryan2754 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryan2754's Have/Want ListView ryan2754's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by VJames83:
I have an Aether Vial with 2 counters on it. My opponent casts Brainstorm. In response, I activate Vial and put Thalia, Guardian of Thraben into play.
-Does my opponent have to pay 1 colorless extra?
-If so, what happens if he can't pay the mana?

The brainstorm has already been cast, and is thus on the stack. No need for opponent to pay extra.

 
Pringlesman
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posted March 21, 2012 04:52 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pringlesman Click Here to Email Pringlesman Send a private message to Pringlesman Click to send Pringlesman an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
For my gauntlet of legacy decks, I write SB on the front of every sideboard sleeve. It makes playtesting easier if you aren't familar with a deck.

I've been told this is illegal for tourney play, (and I believe people when they tell me that). I just wanted to know which rule specifically does not allow this.

 
Kyzneg
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posted March 21, 2012 05:03 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pringlesman:
For my gauntlet of legacy decks, I write SB on the front of every sideboard sleeve. It makes playtesting easier if you aren't familar with a deck.

I've been told this is illegal for tourney play, (and I believe people when they tell me that). I just wanted to know which rule specifically does not allow this.


The Magic Tournament Rules, rule numbers 3.10 and 3.11.


quote:
MTR 3.10 Sleeves
Players may use plastic card sleeves or other protective devices on cards. If a player chooses to use card sleeves,
all sleeves must be identical and all cards in his or her deck must be placed in the sleeves in an identical manner.
If the sleeves feature holograms or other similar markings, cards must be inserted into the sleeves so these
markings appear only on the faces of the cards.
During a match, a player may request that a judge inspect an opponent’s card sleeves. The judge may disallow the
card sleeves if he or she believes they are marked, worn, or otherwise in a condition or of a design that interferes
with shuffling or game play. In the interest of efficiency, the judge may choose to delay any change of sleeves
until the end of the match.
Competitive and Professional REL tournaments impose additional restrictions on sleeves. Highly reflective backs
are not allowed; sleeves with artwork on their backs are only acceptable if there is a single color at the sleeves’
edges; sleeves with holograms across some or all of the sleeve front or back are not allowed.
When using sleeves on double-faced cards, sleeves must be completely opaque. The Head Judge is the final
authority on what sleeves are allowed.


quote:
MTR 3.11 Marked Cards
Players are responsible for ensuring that their cards and/or card sleeves are not marked during the course of the
tournament. A card or sleeve is considered marked if it bears something that makes it possible to identify the card
without seeing its face, including scratches, discoloration, and bends.
If a player’s cards are sleeved, the cards must be examined while in the sleeves to determine if they are marked.
Players should use care when sleeving their decks and should randomize their decks prior to sleeving them to
reduce the possibility of cards becoming marked with a pattern. Players should also keep in mind that cards or
sleeves may become worn and potentially marked through play during the course of a tournament.
The Head Judge has the authority to determine if a card in a player’s deck is marked. Judges may request that a
player remove his or her current sleeves or replace any of the deck’s current sleeves immediately, or before the
next round.

On a separate note, this seems like a bad idea for playtesting. I understand that there is value in playtesting with your sideboard cards in your starting hand, to see how good those cards actually are in a matchup and similar reasons, but I really think there are better ways of playtesting that kind of scenario than marking the cards (effectively) that you have in your sideboard.

 
Pringlesman
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posted March 21, 2012 06:35 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pringlesman Click Here to Email Pringlesman Send a private message to Pringlesman Click to send Pringlesman an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kyzneg:
The Magic Tournament Rules, rule numbers 3.10 and 3.11.

On a separate note, this seems like a bad idea for playtesting. I understand that there is value in playtesting with your sideboard cards in your starting hand, to see how good those cards actually are in a matchup and similar reasons, but I really think there are better ways of playtesting that kind of scenario than marking the cards (effectively) that you have in your sideboard.


Acctualy, it's mostly just so when people are desideboarding, they know what cards aren't main deck. It's awkward when someone is desiding and it takes them a while to remember that the net deck dredge list only plays 2 MD ichorids and 1 SB ichorid.

Also, do you think I'm marking the face or the back of the sleeve? Because I'm marking the face.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by Pringlesman on March 21, 2012]

 
Kyzneg
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posted March 21, 2012 06:50 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pringlesman:
Acctualy, it's mostly just so when people are desideboarding, they know what cards aren't main deck. It's awkward when someone is desiding and it takes them a while to remember that the net deck dredge list only plays 2 MD ichorids and 1 SB ichorid.

Also, do you think I'm marking the face or the back of the sleeve? Because I'm marking the face.


Ah, my mistake on the positioning of the mark, markings like that on the face of the card/sleeve would probably fall under the rules on taking notes (MTR 2.9), but since those are more of a judgment call for the TO or Judge, I'll leave it to someone else to say whether those would be legal or not, and as always in such cases, the final decision rests with the head judge of whatever tournament you're playing in.

 
caquaa
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posted March 21, 2012 01:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
Just be aware, sharpie DOES wear off the face of the card sleeves and likely onto the back of other sleeves. I "altered" some expensive foils via sharpie on the sleeve and after only a few games the sharpie was noticeably wearing off.

As for a reason you can/cannot do this, I can't really think of one besides the above mentioned accidentally marking the back of other cards.

 
Sovarius
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posted March 21, 2012 02:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
It shouldn't be considered marked unless you can tell what the card is outside a public zone. The ink on the face only is visible when the identity of the card is public anyway.

That's what i understand. Doesn't indentify the card.

 
Timmy!
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posted March 24, 2012 12:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Timmy! Click Here to Email Timmy! Send a private message to Timmy! Click to send Timmy! an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Timmy!'s Have/Want ListView Timmy!'s Have/Want List
Here's a pretty nubish question in regards to morph. ((Ran into a deck with a few morph creatures)) They play an exalted angel face down. Do I need to cast Engineered Explosives for 3 or for 0 to destroy the creature? ((Assuming he does not have the mana to pay for it's morph cost to flip it over in response to me activating the Engineered Explosives.

My opponent has a face down creature. He places a creature enchantment on said face down creature. Before combat damage is dealt, he pays the morph cost and flips the creature to expose the Exalted Angel. Does the creature enchantment stay on the Exalted Angel or does it get discarded to the GY since it is no longer on the 2/2?

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thror
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posted March 24, 2012 12:54 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
A facedown morph has a converted mana cost of Zero, so EE @0 will destroy it.

A morph is the same object when it is faceup/facedown, so anything enchanting, equipping, or targeting the facedown card will still be enchanting/equipping/targeting that even if it gets turned face up. (However, things get weird if the morph was a Zoetic Cavern. Once it's turned face up, it cant be enchanted with Creature Enchantments, cant be equipped, and is not a legal target for Doom Blade etc. The enchant/equips would fall off, and the doom blade would be countered upon resolution because of an illegal target.)

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[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
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[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
Shron Von Drago
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posted March 24, 2012 10:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Shron Von Drago Click Here to Email Shron Von Drago Send a private message to Shron Von Drago Click to send Shron Von Drago an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
So I was at a draft the other night and in between each game a player was sorting his mana to make sure he didn't have any "mana clumps" before shuffling. then shuffling his deck, I didn't have a problem with it being technically you can completly rebuild your deck in between games in this type of format anyway but 2 other players were complaining about it. Is it actually legal to "mana shuffle" before shuffling your deck?

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Zakman86
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quote:
Originally posted by Shron Von Drago:
So I was at a draft the other night and in between each game a player was sorting his mana to make sure he didn't have any "mana clumps" before shuffling. then shuffling his deck, I didn't have a problem with it being technically you can completly rebuild your deck in between games in this type of format anyway but 2 other players were complaining about it. Is it actually legal to "mana shuffle" before shuffling your deck?

As long as he's shuffling afterwards, it's technically OK. Note that he only has 3 minutes to sideboard, shuffle, and present, however.


 
TimeBeing
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posted March 25, 2012 12:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Shron Von Drago:
So I was at a draft the other night and in between each game a player was sorting his mana to make sure he didn't have any "mana clumps" before shuffling. then shuffling his deck, I didn't have a problem with it being technically you can completly rebuild your deck in between games in this type of format anyway but 2 other players were complaining about it. Is it actually legal to "mana shuffle" before shuffling your deck?



Yes as long as he huffed a lot. And not just pile shiffels or cuts. You should also be shuffling his deck. A lot

Do note that if a player does this doesnt Presents to you and you pile suffle his deck o screw him instead of calling a judge. You can also get a DQ for cheating.

 
mattw
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This might seem silly but say an opponent has some random 4/4 creature out. If I play a Massacre Wurm then an Elesh Norn, will it die?
 
gaeacradle
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If I activate Havengul Lich's ability to cast target a creature in a graveyard, I can cast it. But if it dies again during the same turn, I can still cast it without reactivating the ability again, right?
 
Jtrade77
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posted March 29, 2012 06:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jtrade77 Send a private message to Jtrade77 Click to send Jtrade77 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by gaeacradle:
If I activate Havengul Lich's ability to cast target a creature in a graveyard, I can cast it. But if it dies again during the same turn, I can still cast it without reactivating the ability again, right?

You can't. Once it changes zones, it's treated as I new instance of the permanent. So you'd need to activate the ability again with the 'new' target to recast it.

 
Kyzneg
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posted March 29, 2012 08:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mattw:
This might seem silly but say an opponent has some random 4/4 creature out. If I play a Massacre Wurm then an Elesh Norn, will it die?

Yes, as long as you either cast both in the same turn, or cast the Elesh Norn first if you're casting them in separate turns. As a side note, if you are casting both in the same turn, you want to cast the Massacre Wurm first, to prevent your opponent from getting rid of Elesh Norn before the Massacre Wurm's effect resolves.

 
tragicmagic
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posted March 30, 2012 07:31 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for tragicmagic Click Here to Email tragicmagic Send a private message to tragicmagic Click to send tragicmagic an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View tragicmagic's Trade Auction or SaleView tragicmagic's Trade Auction or Sale
If Karn is removed from play, then you play another Karn, and use its ability to reset the game, does it retrieve the cards that were exiled by the original Karn?
 

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