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Author Topic:   The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 52: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
thror
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posted November 17, 2012 09:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
Yes, you can, exactly because symbiote doesn't say 'target'.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
pugowar
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posted November 17, 2012 10:20 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for pugowar Click Here to Email pugowar Send a private message to pugowar Click to send pugowar an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View pugowar's Have/Want ListView pugowar's Have/Want List
If I put +1/+1 tokens on Huntmaster and flip him does my Ravager now have the +1/+1's?
 
thror
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posted November 17, 2012 10:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by pugowar:
If I put +1/+1 tokens on Huntmaster and flip him does my Ravager now have the +1/+1's?

yes. he would also retain any enchantments or equipment that were previously on him.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
wayne
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posted November 19, 2012 10:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for wayne Click Here to Email wayne Send a private message to wayne Click to send wayne an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View wayne's Have/Want ListView wayne's Have/Want List
Could someone explain priority to me and how it affects planeswalkers (i.e. like not being able to Lightning Bolt a Jace TMS before player uses his +2 ability)? I need to explain it to a new playgroup.
 
thror
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posted November 19, 2012 10:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by wayne:
Could someone explain priority to me and how it affects planeswalkers (i.e. like not being able to Lightning Bolt a Jace TMS before player uses his +2 ability)? I need to explain it to a new playgroup.

After ANYTHING resolves (spell or ability), the active player (whoevers turn it is) ALWAYS gets priority to 'do something'. You cannot do anything without priority.

Active player casts Jace. Jace goes on the stack. Active player can keep priority, and cast additional instants/activate abilities, OR they can pass to their opponent. Once passed, opp can cast instants or abilities, or pass back. If both players pass without doing anything, Jace resolves, enters the battlefield with 3 loyalty. Now the active player has priority again, and can activate jace.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
wayne
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posted November 19, 2012 02:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for wayne Click Here to Email wayne Send a private message to wayne Click to send wayne an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View wayne's Have/Want ListView wayne's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
After ANYTHING resolves (spell or ability), the active player (whoevers turn it is) ALWAYS gets priority to 'do something'. You cannot do anything without priority.

Active player casts Jace. Jace goes on the stack. Active player can keep priority, and cast additional instants/activate abilities, OR they can pass to their opponent. Once passed, opp can cast instants or abilities, or pass back. If both players pass without doing anything, Jace resolves, enters the battlefield with 3 loyalty. Now the active player has priority again, and can activate jace.



Thanks, but I was referring more to activating planeswalker abilities. Would my opponent be able to Lightning Bolt me after I put the Jace +2 ability on the stack?

 
Pail42
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posted November 19, 2012 02:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Pail42's Have/Want ListView Pail42's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by wayne:

Thanks, but I was referring more to activating planeswalker abilities. Would my opponent be able to Lightning Bolt me after I put the Jace +2 ability on the stack?

Yes, planeswalker abilities use the stack and the loyalty +/- is the cost of activating the ability (the loyalty changes before the ability resolves)

 
EuroRunner
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posted November 19, 2012 06:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for EuroRunner Click Here to Email EuroRunner Send a private message to EuroRunner Click to send EuroRunner an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by wayne:

Thanks, but I was referring more to activating planeswalker abilities. Would my opponent be able to Lightning Bolt me after I put the Jace +2 ability on the stack?

The ability, once paid for, can be responded to once on the stack. However, if you're asking if your opponent can bolt Jace before the counters go on then the answer is no. The addition or subtraction of counters on a planeswalker to pay for an ability isn't something that uses the stack.

 
wayne
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posted November 19, 2012 10:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for wayne Click Here to Email wayne Send a private message to wayne Click to send wayne an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View wayne's Have/Want ListView wayne's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by EuroRunner:
The ability, once paid for, can be responded to once on the stack. However, if you're asking if your opponent can bolt Jace before the counters go on then the answer is no. The addition or subtraction of counters on a planeswalker to pay for an ability isn't something that uses the stack.

quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
Yes, planeswalker abilities use the stack and the loyalty +/- is the cost of activating the ability (the loyalty changes before the ability resolves)


Yeah, this is what I was looking for, thanks. I forgot the part about counters going on as part of the cost.

 
Heresy19
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posted November 20, 2012 07:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Heresy19 Click Here to Email Heresy19 Send a private message to Heresy19 Click to send Heresy19 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Heresy19's Have/Want ListView Heresy19's Have/Want List
Huh... ORCs aren't always useful when it comes to questions :P

Is Gemstone Mine Modern legal even if it was a TimeShifted card? I say yes because it was in Time Spiral set but hey, I could be wrong.

Lmk before I checkout my cart

Thanks!

 
Bugger
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posted November 20, 2012 07:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bugger Click Here to Email Bugger Send a private message to Bugger Click to send Bugger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Heresy19:
Huh... ORCs aren't always useful when it comes to questions :P

Is Gemstone Mine Modern legal even if it was a TimeShifted card? I say yes because it was in Time Spiral set but hey, I could be wrong.

Lmk before I checkout my cart

Thanks!


Yes it is. For future reference, you can check this for any card by going to the "Sets and Legality" tab on the card's Gatherer page.

__________________
It is a known fact that more Americans watch the television than any other appliance.

 
Heresy19
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posted November 20, 2012 07:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Heresy19 Click Here to Email Heresy19 Send a private message to Heresy19 Click to send Heresy19 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Heresy19's Have/Want ListView Heresy19's Have/Want List
Thanks Bugger
 
harbingerofthevoid
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posted November 21, 2012 01:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for harbingerofthevoid Click Here to Email harbingerofthevoid Send a private message to harbingerofthevoid Click to send harbingerofthevoid an Instant MessageVisit harbingerofthevoid's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View harbingerofthevoid's Have/Want ListView harbingerofthevoid's Have/Want List
I don't know what wordage to look for but, I am correct in saying that if you go "infinite" eg, Splinter Twin, you have to set a number of copies right?

quote:

It is now the declare attackers step.
them: taps Pestermite.
them: points from his Splinter Twin to his Pestermite.
me: how many?
them: how many what?
combo exarch
me: you making copies?
them: infinite
and all attack
me: you have to choose a number
them: no
infinite copy
search on google
this is combo
me: yes but i can stop your combo so after i do, how many on the battlefield?
them: you must destroy my creature
or enchantment
me: okay here we go
you enchant mite
me: you tap to make xx copies.
them: yes
me: you have to make a number. infinite is not a number.
them: ....
this is the combo
me: okay you attack with infinite.
me: taps Plains.
me: taps Reliquary Tower.
me: plays Pollen Lullaby from hand.
them: ok correct
them taps Island.
them: plays Spell Pierce from hand.
me: puts Pollen Lullaby from the stack into graveyard.
me: taps Orzhova, the Church of Deals.
me: taps Plains.
me: plays Pollen Lullaby from hand.
me: clash
me: reveals Isochron Scepter from the top of his library.
them: has lost connection to the game.

I mean I am playing some stupid BW Turbo Fog and my hand was 2 Pollen Lullaby, 2 Dawn Charm, Safe Passage and Howling Mine. So, clashing the Scepter and all he had open were to mountains due to Blood Moon.

 
xilla001
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posted November 21, 2012 01:33 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for xilla001 Click Here to Email xilla001 Send a private message to xilla001 Click to send xilla001 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by harbingerofthevoid:
I don't know what wordage to look for but, I am correct in saying that if you go "infinite" eg, Splinter Twin, you have to set a number of copies right?.

Right, still there are many idiots, which don't know rules and while playing online often disconects after you tell them about the correct play.

 
Pail42
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posted November 21, 2012 02:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Pail42's Have/Want ListView Pail42's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by harbingerofthevoid:
I don't know what wordage to look for but, I am correct in saying that if you go "infinite" eg, Splinter Twin, you have to set a number of copies right?

Here are the appropriate rules.

quote:

107.1. The only numbers the _Magic_ game uses are integers.

...

716.2a At any point in the game, the player with priority may suggest a shortcut by describing a sequence of game choices, for all players, that may be legally taken based on the current game state and the predictable results of the sequence of choices. This sequence may be a non-repetitive series of choices, a loop that repeats a specified number of times, multiple loops, or nested loops, and may even cross multiple turns. It can't include conditional actions, where the outcome of a game event determines the next action a player takes. The ending point of this sequence must be a place where a player has priority, though it need not be the player proposing the shortcut.
Example: A player controls a creature enchanted by Presence of Gond, which grants the creature the ability "{T}: Put a 1/1 green Elf Warrior creature token onto the battlefield," and another player controls Intruder Alarm, which reads, in part, "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, untap all creatures." When the player has priority, he may suggest "I'll create a million tokens," indicating the sequence of activating the creature's ability, all players passing priority, letting the creature's ability resolve and put a token onto the battlefield (which causes Intruder Alarm's ability to trigger), Intruder Alarm's controller putting that triggered ability on the stack, all players passing priority, Intruder Alarm's triggered ability resolving, all players passing priority until the player proposing the shortcut has priority, and repeating that sequence 999,999 more times, ending just after the last token-creating ability resolves.


 
achaye
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posted November 23, 2012 01:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for achaye Send a private message to achaye Click to send achaye an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View achaye's Have/Want ListView achaye's Have/Want List
Hi,

I have a question about Orim's Chant. If I don't play this card at the opponent's upkeep (for example, if I play it during the opponent's main phase or combat phase), does that mean the opponent can cast whatever instants they want before Orim's Chant resolves? The scenario I'm thinking is:

Opponent's main phase: I cast Orim's chant.
Opponent responds with 2 Lightning Bolts and kills some of my random creatures or whatever.

Is that a legitimate play of Lightning Bolts?

Thanks!

 
Pail42
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posted November 23, 2012 03:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Pail42's Have/Want ListView Pail42's Have/Want List
Your opponent will always get a chance to play instants and activate abilities before Orim's Chant resolves regardless of what phase you cast it in.

Spells and abilities don't "do" anything until they resolve. The top spell/ability on the stack resolves when both players pass priority ( their chance to take an action ).

Example:
Your opponent starts his main phase and chooses not to do anything, you get priority.
You cast Orim's chant - it is the only thing on the stack
You choose not cast anything else and pass priority back to your opponent.
Your opponent casts lightning bolt - it is now on top of the stack above Orim's chant.
Your opponent passes priority.
You pass priority. Lightning bolt does 3 damage to its target.
Your opponent passes priority.
You pass priority. Orim's chant resolves and prevents your opponent from casting any more spells for the rest of the turn.

 
achaye
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posted November 23, 2012 06:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for achaye Send a private message to achaye Click to send achaye an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View achaye's Have/Want ListView achaye's Have/Want List
Ah, that makes sense, thanks! I thought it would be something along the lines of that, but wasn't 100% sure. The card would otherwise be way too cheap if it was playable any other way, and 1000000000x better than Counterspell.
 
psrex
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posted November 24, 2012 03:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for psrex Click Here to Email psrex Send a private message to psrex Click to send psrex an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View psrex's Have/Want ListView psrex's Have/Want List
How does Noxious Ghoul's effect work? If Noxious Ghoul triggers, do creatures that enter play later get the -1/-1 ability as well?

The specific situation was Golgari Germination triggering off of creatures that had died to Noxious Ghoul's effect. Do the new 1/1 Saprolings die as well?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by psrex on November 26, 2012]

 
thror
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posted November 24, 2012 03:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
it only effects creatures on the battlefield when the ability resolves. So the new creatures are NOT effected.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
FleeceItOut
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posted November 24, 2012 04:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for FleeceItOut Click Here to Email FleeceItOut Send a private message to FleeceItOut Click to send FleeceItOut an Instant MessageVisit FleeceItOut's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Noxious Ghoul trigger.
Creatures die.
Golgari Germination trigger(s).
Saprolings are made.
 
achaye
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posted November 24, 2012 06:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for achaye Send a private message to achaye Click to send achaye an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View achaye's Have/Want ListView achaye's Have/Want List
I have another question, this time regarding blocking mechanisms.

Let's say it's the opponent's turn and they declare an attacker (say a Hill Giant). I choose a Goblin Guide to block.

Since I've declared a blocker and Hill Giant doesn't have trample, does that mean I can immediately lob a Goblin Grenade, sacrificing my Goblin Guide, while I take no damage because the Hill Giant was "blocked" by the Goblin Guide? In other words:

Opponent declares Hill Giant as attacker.
I declare Goblin Guide as blocker.
Opponent doesn't do anything in response.
I cast Goblin Grenade, sacrificing my Goblin Guide.

What should result from this? Thanks!

 
thror
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posted November 24, 2012 08:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
works just like that. Once something is 'blocked', it remains 'blocked' until the end of combat, even if whatever blocked it ISNT THERE. That means you take no damage unless the thing has trample. Grenade away.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
caquaa
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posted November 24, 2012 08:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
...Grenade away.

as long as you find a way to cast it at instant speed.

 
thror
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posted November 24, 2012 09:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
as long as you find a way to cast it at instant speed.

arms dealer away!

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 

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