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Author Topic:   The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 52: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
JackSpade
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posted August 09, 2012 01:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JackSpade Click Here to Email JackSpade Send a private message to JackSpade Click to send JackSpade an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
Also, keep in mind that +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters cancel out, so if you give a persist creature with a -1/-1 counter a +1/+1 counter both counters will be removed and your creature can come back again. (and vice versa with undying)

121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704.


Small note on this one, which many people may now know. +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters cancelling each other is out is a SBA, but so is a creature dying because its toughness is less than zero. These happen at the same time and undying and persist check the creatures last known info before it dies, so before the counters are actually removed.

Example. I have a Strangleroot Geist with a +1/+1 counter, my opponent use Black Sun's Zenith with x=2. My Stangleroot now has a +1/+1 counter and 2 -1/-1 counters. When SBAs are checked the creature dies and the counters are removed as a single action, because of this when undying checks to see if the creature had +1/+1 counters it sees that at the moment before it died it did, so the creature does not come back because of undying. If the creature had persist it would also not come back because persist would check to see if the creature had any -1/-1 counters and it would see that it did in the moment before it died.

 
caquaa
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posted August 09, 2012 02:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
Also, keep in mind that +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters cancel out, so if you give a persist creature with a -1/-1 counter a +1/+1 counter both counters will be removed and your creature can come back again. (and vice versa with undying)

121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704.


also this isn't terribly relevant to undying and persist being on the same creature because both will never put counters on a creature, either one or the other.

 
skizzikmonger
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posted August 10, 2012 10:06 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Another Phyrexian Metamorph question. My opponent has a creature with undying in play with a +1/+1 counter on it, and I only have an artifact in play. On my turn I play the Metamorph copying the creature. My opponent attacks, I block with the Metamorph, both creatures die, then the Metamorph comes back. If there are no other creatures to copy the Metamorph will have to copy the artifact, but it get the +1/+1 counter as well?
 
Pail42
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posted August 10, 2012 10:25 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Pail42's Have/Want ListView Pail42's Have/Want List
702.91a Undying is a triggered ability. "Undying" means "When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no +1/+1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a +1/+1 counter on it."

It would. The counter would be fairly meaningless unless you animate the metamorph at a later point.

 
TimeBeing
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posted August 11, 2012 01:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
Another Phyrexian Metamorph question. My opponent has a creature with undying in play with a +1/+1 counter on it, and I only have an artifact in play. On my turn I play the Metamorph copying the creature. My opponent attacks, I block with the Metamorph, both creatures die, then the Metamorph comes back. If there are no other creatures to copy the Metamorph will have to copy the artifact, but it get the +1/+1 counter as well?

Metamorph is a may ability it can come back as a 0/0 shapeshifter with a +1/+1 counter and live.

 
AlmostGrown
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posted August 11, 2012 08:15 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for AlmostGrown Click Here to Email AlmostGrown Send a private message to AlmostGrown Click to send AlmostGrown an Instant MessageVisit AlmostGrown's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View AlmostGrown's Have/Want ListView AlmostGrown's Have/Want List
I think I know the answer already, but I want to double check.

I control Phyrexian Infiltrator and my opponent controls Grizzly Bears. I attack with the Infiltrator, and my opponent does not block. Can I activate the Infiltrator's ability, and then in response ninjutsu it back to my hand with Ninja of the Deep Hours, and have the net result be me hitting them with Ninja of the Deep Hours AND getting their creature AND have the Phyrexian Infiltrator in my hand?

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by AlmostGrown on August 11, 2012]

 
yakusoku
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posted August 11, 2012 09:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for yakusoku Click Here to Email yakusoku Send a private message to yakusoku Click to send yakusoku an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Comprehensive Rules:

701.8. Exchange

701.8a A spell or ability may instruct players to exchange something (for example, life totals or control of two permanents) as part of its resolution. When such a spell or ability resolves, if the entire exchange can't be completed, no part of the exchange occurs.
Example: If a spell attempts to exchange control of two target creatures but one of those creatures is destroyed before the spell resolves, the spell does nothing to the other creature.


If the creature isn't there (because you use Ninjitsu in response), you can't exchange control.

 
skizzikmonger
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posted August 11, 2012 12:48 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TimeBeing:
Metamorph is a may ability it can come back as a 0/0 shapeshifter with a +1/+1 counter and live.

If I have the Meramorph copy the artifact, and then animate it with Tezzeret, it will then be a 6/6 right (5/ w/ +1/+1 counter)?

One more. If I activate an Inkmoth Nexus, then copy the Necus with a 'clone' creature, what happens to the clone at the end of my turn?

 
caquaa
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posted August 11, 2012 01:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
If I have the Meramorph copy the artifact, and then animate it with Tezzeret, it will then be a 6/6 right (5/ w/ +1/+1 counter)?

correct

quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
One more. If I activate an Inkmoth Nexus, then copy the Necus with a 'clone' creature, what happens to the clone at the end of my turn?

Well, by the phrasing of your question I'll assume you think its a creature when you cast the clone; Its not. Clone comes into play as a copy of an inkmoth nexus, but its not a creature. You have to pay mana to activate it and all that good stuff. Treat clone as if it were a copy of the printed card.

 
chuck d
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posted August 11, 2012 11:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chuck d Click Here to Email chuck d Send a private message to chuck d Click to send chuck d an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chuck d's Trade Auction or SaleView chuck d's Trade Auction or Sale
Say I have a general that is a zombie. I have rooftop storm out. My general dies. Do I pay 2 or 0 to bring him back?
Thanks!
 
caquaa
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posted August 12, 2012 02:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by chuck d:
Say I have a general that is a zombie. I have rooftop storm out. My general dies. Do I pay 2 or 0 to bring him back?
Thanks!

2

 
Eatatjoes
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posted August 12, 2012 11:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Eatatjoes Click Here to Email Eatatjoes Send a private message to Eatatjoes Click to send Eatatjoes an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Eatatjoes's Have/Want ListView Eatatjoes's Have/Want List
I play a turn one flooded strand. My first draw step is a terminus. With the miracle trigger on the stack, can i crack my fetch so i can cast terminus?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Eatatjoes on August 12, 2012]
 
Ashcatchemall
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posted August 12, 2012 12:09 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Ashcatchemall Click Here to Email Ashcatchemall Send a private message to Ashcatchemall Click to send Ashcatchemall an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yes, Stack the miracle trigger (which can be stifled) and respond to it by using the fetch land.
 
marriedwithchildren
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posted August 12, 2012 01:26 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for marriedwithchildren Click Here to Email marriedwithchildren Send a private message to marriedwithchildren Click to send marriedwithchildren an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View marriedwithchildren's Have/Want ListView marriedwithchildren's Have/Want List
Maze of Ith question:

I block a knight of reliquary with a nimble mongoose after combat damage has resolved he mazed his creature to untap it. Is this legal?

 
WeedIan
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posted August 12, 2012 01:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by marriedwithchildren:
Maze of Ith question:

I block a knight of reliquary with a nimble mongoose after combat damage has resolved he mazed his creature to untap it. Is this legal?


Yes, because its still considered to be attacking even after damage has been dealt.

There are lots of tricks you can do with this, equip a sword of feat and famine with the trigger on the stack untap your Knight and then you get to untap your maze of ith as well.

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thror
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posted August 12, 2012 01:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by marriedwithchildren:
Maze of Ith question:

I block a knight of reliquary with a nimble mongoose after combat damage has resolved he mazed his creature to untap it. Is this legal?


Yes, it is. You can use Maze of Ith any time within the combat phase, including the end of combat step. In this step, damage has already been done, but KotR is still an attacking creature, and can be untapped by the Maze.

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by thror on August 12, 2012]

 
djcards
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posted August 12, 2012 09:31 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for djcards Click Here to Email djcards Send a private message to djcards Click to send djcards an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
...equip a sword of feat and famine with the trigger on the stack untap your Knight and then you get to untap your maze of ith as well.


What? "Equip only as a sorcery."

 
thror
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posted August 12, 2012 10:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by djcards:
What? "Equip only as a sorcery."

More precise punctuation and grammar would probably lead to better comprehension. Ill fix:

'Equip Kotr with SoFaF. Attack. With sword trigger on stack, untap kotr with Maze. SoFaF trigger resolves, leaving you with an untapped kotr AND an untapped Maze.'

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[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself


[Edited 1 times, lastly by thror on August 12, 2012]

 
ogre
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posted August 13, 2012 06:56 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for ogre Click Here to Email ogre Send a private message to ogre Click to send ogre an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ogre's Have/Want ListView ogre's Have/Want List
Question,

If my opponent has a planeswalker on the board and I use an ability (one red mage from ? that for B and tap: target player loses 1 life) to cause my opponent to lose one life, can I have the planeswalker lose 1 counter instead?

BTW, the mage/? also taps for one G and puts a saproling on the board.

Thanks in advance to whoever answers,
Jesse

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LemonMeringue
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posted August 13, 2012 09:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LemonMeringue Click Here to Email LemonMeringue Send a private message to LemonMeringue Click to send LemonMeringue an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or SaleView LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or Sale
You can only redirect damage to planeswalkers, loss of life cannot be applied to planeswalkers.
 
skizzikmonger
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posted August 14, 2012 12:00 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If my opponent and I both have a Huntmaster of the Fells in play, and my opponent doesn't play any spells on his turn, how do the two Huntmaster triggers stack at the beginning of my upkeep?
 
Basaka
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posted August 14, 2012 12:03 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Basaka Click Here to Email Basaka Send a private message to Basaka Click to send Basaka an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Basaka's Have/Want ListView Basaka's Have/Want List
The active player's huntmaster trigger first. the NAP goes on top, and therefore resolved first.

Basically, make sure they both trigger on your opponents turn, heh

 
Trumpeter
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posted August 14, 2012 03:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trumpeter Click Here to Email Trumpeter Send a private message to Trumpeter Click to send Trumpeter an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
1. If I activate Tree of Redemption while Platinum Emperion is out, would the toughness still equal my life total even if part of the ability is nullified?

2. I have several Jin-Gitaxias questions:

A. My opponent brings him out via Quicksilver Amulet at the end of my turn. Does that mean I must still discard (if I have cards to discard)?

B. When is the discard step for it's controller? It's controller draws 7 at the end step. So, would he/she discard right after that? What if he is controlled until end of turn (say Act of Treason)? How does the draw/discard work with that?

3. If I declare an attacker (say Primeval Titan) and my opponent casts something like Evacuate, does the Titan ability still go? My opponent was saying that it wouldn't since the attack never went through.

Thanks and sorry for my ignorance.

 
FleeceItOut
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posted August 14, 2012 04:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for FleeceItOut Click Here to Email FleeceItOut Send a private message to FleeceItOut Click to send FleeceItOut an Instant MessageVisit FleeceItOut's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Trumpeter:
1. If I activate Tree of Redemption while Platinum Emperion is out, would the toughness still equal my life total even if part of the ability is nullified?

2. I have several Jin-Gitaxias questions:

A. My opponent brings him out via Quicksilver Amulet at the end of my turn. Does that mean I must still discard (if I have cards to discard)?

B. When is the discard step for it's controller? It's controller draws 7 at the end step. So, would he/she discard right after that? What if he is controlled until end of turn (say Act of Treason)? How does the draw/discard work with that?

3. If I declare an attacker (say Primeval Titan) and my opponent casts something like Evacuate, does the Titan ability still go? My opponent was saying that it wouldn't since the attack never went through.

Thanks and sorry for my ignorance.


1. Platinum Emperion says your life can't change so Tree of Redemptions ability cannot happen.

2. A)Yes.
B)Discard happens at clean up phase. Jin-Gitaxias draws 7 at end of turn and Act of Treason lasts till end of turn so you draw 7 then discard down to 7.

3. You declare you're going to combat and your opponent Evacuations before you attack. If he actually lets you attack then it will go through.



[Edited 2 times, lastly by FleeceItOut on August 14, 2012]

 
slexyy
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posted August 19, 2012 01:01 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for slexyy Click Here to Email slexyy Send a private message to slexyy Click to send slexyy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Quick question here. If i have a quirion dryad in play and cast a geist of saint traft, would my dryad get 1 counter or 2 since geist is blue/white?
 

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