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Author Topic:   The Rulings and Questions Thread, part 52: Post ALL your Rules Questions Here
orcishartillery
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posted October 16, 2012 12:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for orcishartillery Send a private message to orcishartillery Click to send orcishartillery an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GenghisTom:
Okay, so opponent has in play Lord of Atlantis and Phantasmal Image (copying Lord of Atlantis).

I cast Detention Sphere.
There are two targets I can choose from, LoA or PI.
If I target PI, it's sacrificed as a triggered effect.
Then, because the target is no longer there does Dentention Sphere's triggered ability fizzle? Therefore NOT also exiling LoA? (The PI has the same name as LoA because it's a copy correct?)

On the other hand, if I target LoA with Detention Sphere, PI would also be exiled correct? But NOT sacrificed because it wasn't a target in this case.
Meaning, if Detention Sphere leaves play, the Phantasmal Image will return to play with the Lord of Atlantis.


You are correct on all counts.
 
fluffycow
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posted October 16, 2012 01:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for fluffycow Click Here to Email fluffycow Send a private message to fluffycow Click to send fluffycow an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View fluffycow's Have/Want ListView fluffycow's Have/Want List
If I have a non black creature in play and it's the only creature in play and an attrition out. Can I sacrifies the creature to attrition to target itself?
 
orcishartillery
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posted October 17, 2012 01:50 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for orcishartillery Send a private message to orcishartillery Click to send orcishartillery an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fluffycow:
If I have a non black creature in play and it's the only creature in play and an attrition out. Can I sacrifies the creature to attrition to target itself?

Yes. You choose targets before you pay costs. You can target a creature with Attrition's ability, and then sacrifice that creature to pay the cost. (The ability will of course be countered because it no longer has a legal target.)
 
fluffycow
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posted October 18, 2012 08:50 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for fluffycow Click Here to Email fluffycow Send a private message to fluffycow Click to send fluffycow an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View fluffycow's Have/Want ListView fluffycow's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by orcishartillery:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fluffycow:
If I have a non black creature in play and it's the only creature in play and an attrition out. Can I sacrifies the creature to attrition to target itself?

Yes. You choose targets before you pay costs. You can target a creature with Attrition's ability, and then sacrifice that creature to pay the cost. (The ability will of course be countered because it no longer has a legal target.)[/QUOTE]

Thanks

 
Pail42
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posted October 18, 2012 09:44 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Pail42's Have/Want ListView Pail42's Have/Want List
Originally posted by Shron Von Drago:
quote:
I have a question about shuffling. I shuffle my deck and present it to my opponent and he shuffles it lets say i'm not satisfied with how he shuffled or suspect he may have shuffled a certain way on purpose what are my options can I shuffle again or have a judge shuffle it?

Also from the tournament rules

quote:
If a player has had the opportunity to see any of the card faces of the deck being shuffled, the deck is no longer
considered randomized and must be randomized again.

Sounds like if you tell the judge that you or your opponent saw a card during the shuffling process then you would automatically have to start from the beginning. I'm not a judge but if I were I would prefer this over taking time to shuffle myself.

 
thror
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posted October 18, 2012 10:14 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:

Sounds like if you tell the judge that you or your opponent saw a card during the shuffling process then you would automatically have to start from the beginning. I'm not a judge but if I were I would prefer this over taking time to shuffle myself.

and if they prove you lied to a judge you get disqualified. just tell them exactly what happened.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
Pail42
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posted October 18, 2012 11:32 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Pail42's Have/Want ListView Pail42's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
and if they prove you lied to a judge you get disqualified. just tell them exactly what happened.

I never suggested lying.

quote:
Decks must be randomized at the start of every game and whenever an instruction requires it. Randomization is
defined as bringing the deck to a state where no player can have any information regarding the order or position of
cards in any portion of the deck.

Saying "I noticed this guy was peeking at my cards while he/I was shuffling so I suspect it's not random" is a much stronger statement than "I don't think my deck is random, but I have no reason to be suspicious."

If your opponent decides to do something that would ordinarily be suspicious on an initial shuffle, such as pile shuffling (specifically not allowed for randomization), as long as they didn't have any information about what cards are where then they have not made the deck any more or less random. You might get a judge to instruct them to stop acting suspiciously, but the player didn't do anything against the tournament rules.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Pail42 on October 18, 2012]

 
jaromirjagr
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posted October 23, 2012 04:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for jaromirjagr Click Here to Email jaromirjagr Send a private message to jaromirjagr Click to send jaromirjagr an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
So how does riftsweeper work in edh games?Can in bring your general into your deck?Can it bring cards that were exiled with final judgment or revoke existence back into your deck?I always thought exiled cards were removed face down.If so what are some uses for riftsweeper?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by jaromirjagr on October 23, 2012]
 
caquaa
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posted October 23, 2012 05:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by jaromirjagr:
So how does riftsweeper work in edh games?Can in bring your general into your deck?Can it bring cards that were exiled with final judgment or revoke existence back into your deck?I always thought exiled cards were removed face down.If so what are some uses for riftsweeper?

cards that are exiled are face up unless a card says otherwise.

Can in bring your general into your deck?
Commanders are generally in the command zone as you can use a replacement effect to place them in the command zone instead of exile if they would be exiled. If you let it go to exile (say, swords to plowshares or path to exile) instead of using the replacement effect, then you can use riftsweeper on it.

Can it bring cards that were exiled with final judgment or revoke existence back into your deck?
yup

I always thought exiled cards were removed face down.
This is incorrect. Any cards that is exiled is face up unless the card that exiles says otherwise.

 
nderdog
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posted October 28, 2012 12:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for nderdog Click Here to Email nderdog Send a private message to nderdog Click to send nderdog an Instant MessageVisit nderdog's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View nderdog's Have/Want ListView nderdog's Have/Want List
One of the locals asked whether a Verdant Catacombs could search for a Watery Grave. He was told by an ex-judge that it was format dependent, which makes no sense to me. Can someone confirm or deny this so that I know he's getting the correct answer? Seems to me that the rules that say that a Watery Grave is a Swamp, thus searchable by a Catacombs couldn't possibly change just because of the format it's played in, but then, I'm not a judge.

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All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

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thror
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posted October 28, 2012 01:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by nderdog:
One of the locals asked whether a Verdant Catacombs could search for a Watery Grave. He was told by an ex-judge that it was format dependent, which makes no sense to me. Can someone confirm or deny this so that I know he's getting the correct answer? Seems to me that the rules that say that a Watery Grave is a Swamp, thus searchable by a Catacombs couldn't possibly change just because of the format it's played in, but then, I'm not a judge.


if it doesnt make any sense, then it's probably wrong.

Verdant Cats can search for a swamp. Watery Grave IS a swamp. The End.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
skizzikmonger
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posted October 28, 2012 01:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Can I pay for X when I flashback a spell with X in its mana cost with Snapcaster Mage?
 
trying2playagain
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posted October 28, 2012 03:05 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for trying2playagain Click Here to Email trying2playagain Send a private message to trying2playagain Click to send trying2playagain an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If i have a vampire nocturnes in play, and the top card of my library is a gold are one of the use this are this color card. Do my vampires get the benfit since it's a black card. Are do they not get the benfit since it's a red card?
 
nderdog
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posted October 28, 2012 03:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for nderdog Click Here to Email nderdog Send a private message to nderdog Click to send nderdog an Instant MessageVisit nderdog's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View nderdog's Have/Want ListView nderdog's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by trying2playagain:
If i have a vampire nocturnes in play, and the top card of my library is a gold are one of the use this are this color card. Do my vampires get the benfit since it's a black card. Are do they not get the benfit since it's a red card?

As long as the gold card includes black (such as Dreadbore) Nocturnus will give the bonus. Nocturnus triggers on the card containing black, not the absence of any color but black.

__________________
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All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

Remember the Auctions Board!

thror
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posted October 28, 2012 03:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
Can I pay for X when I flashback a spell with X in its mana cost with Snapcaster Mage?

yes you can.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
Myy
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posted October 28, 2012 05:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Myy Click Here to Email Myy Send a private message to Myy Click to send Myy an Instant MessageVisit Myy's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Myy's Have/Want ListView Myy's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
if it doesnt make any sense, then it's probably wrong.

Verdant Cats can search for a swamp. Watery Grave IS a swamp. The End.


maybe he was trying to be clever/annoying? verdant catacomb was standard legal when Watery Grave wasn't. so technically You can't search for a card that's not legal in the format your playing, because you're not supposed to have it in your deck to begin with.

I agree my theory is very unlikely, but It's not farfetched.

 
oneofchaos
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posted October 28, 2012 06:31 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nderdog:
One of the locals asked whether a Verdant Catacombs could search for a Watery Grave. He was told by an ex-judge that it was format dependent, which makes no sense to me. Can someone confirm or deny this so that I know he's getting the correct answer? Seems to me that the rules that say that a Watery Grave is a Swamp, thus searchable by a Catacombs couldn't possibly change just because of the format it's played in, but then, I'm not a judge.


This is about equivalent to asking how much mana a black lotus provides. It's format dependent.

 
Devonin
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posted October 28, 2012 10:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Myy:
maybe he was trying to be clever/annoying? verdant catacomb was standard legal when Watery Grave wasn't. so technically You can't search for a card that's not legal in the format your playing, because you're not supposed to have it in your deck to begin with.

I agree my theory is very unlikely, but It's not farfetched.



I doubt they were trying to be clever.

They probably took "Can I search for Watery Grave with Verdant Catacombs" to mean "Can I run both cards in my deck" to which the answer is "Depends on the format"

Because you can't run them both in standard.

 
oneofchaos
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posted October 29, 2012 06:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I bounce an opponents merrow reejerey in response to a cursecatcher. He vials it back in and untaps a permanent. I said that the reejerey had to be in play when the spell was put on the stack, he said I was a dumb idiot. I could be wrong, but I know silence doesn't stop spells on the stack from being cast and this seems very similar. Input?
 
caquaa
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posted October 29, 2012 10:03 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
I bounce an opponents merrow reejerey in response to a cursecatcher. He vials it back in and untaps a permanent. I said that the reejerey had to be in play when the spell was put on the stack, he said I was a dumb idiot. I could be wrong, but I know silence doesn't stop spells on the stack from being cast and this seems very similar. Input?

some reading of the cards could help:
Whenever you cast a Merfolk spell, you may tap or untap target permanent.

So you say "in response to a cursecatcher" you actually mean "after my opponent has already cast a cursecatcher." It was in play when the spell was cast (placed on the stack). If you respond to him casting the cursecatcher, it would be after the cursecatcher had already been cast. At this point the ability has already been triggered, target choosen, and placed on the stack before you even gain priority to bounce the meerow reejerey. I'm sure you can clearly see that its far too late to bounce the reejerey just as its too late to cast silence once your opponent has already cast the spell.

 
oneofchaos
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posted October 29, 2012 10:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
some reading of the cards could help:
Whenever you cast a Merfolk spell, you may tap or untap target permanent.

So you say "in response to a cursecatcher" you actually mean "after my opponent has already cast a cursecatcher." It was in play when the spell was cast (placed on the stack). If you respond to him casting the cursecatcher, it would be after the cursecatcher had already been cast. At this point the ability has already been triggered, target choosen, and placed on the stack before you even gain priority to bounce the meerow reejerey. I'm sure you can clearly see that its far too late to bounce the reejerey just as its too late to cast silence once your opponent has already cast the spell.


I think I typed up the situation incorrectly (my mistake). The cursecatcher was played and he vialed in merrow in response.

 
thror
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posted October 30, 2012 12:32 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
step1: stop using the word 'played'. things get Cast, activated, or put into a zone.

Vial on the battlefield. Opp Casts Cursecatcher. With cursecatcher already on the stack, vials in Reej. Reej does NOT trigger, because it was not on the battlefield at the time cursecatcher was cast.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

[19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself

 
oneofchaos
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posted October 30, 2012 12:48 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
step1: stop using the word 'played'. things get Cast, activated, or put into a zone.

Vial on the battlefield. Opp Casts Cursecatcher. With cursecatcher already on the stack, vials in Reej. Reej does NOT trigger, because it was not on the battlefield at the time cursecatcher was cast.


That'll do it. Thankey. I think I didn't setup the game state correctly last time, or I would have agreed with my opponent rereading what I posted.

 
HerrOttesen
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posted October 31, 2012 10:29 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for HerrOttesen Click Here to Email HerrOttesen Send a private message to HerrOttesen Click to send HerrOttesen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View HerrOttesen's Have/Want ListView HerrOttesen's Have/Want List
This one has confused me for awhile

Say I have 4 Temple Bells on my side of the field, along with a Jace's Erasure. Before the end of my opponents turn, I tap and activate all four Temple Bells. How do they activate with Jace's Erasure on the field? Since we are both drawing cards with Temple Bell, and multiple ones are being activated, how does he mill cards or in what order?

 
FleeceItOut
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posted October 31, 2012 03:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for FleeceItOut Click Here to Email FleeceItOut Send a private message to FleeceItOut Click to send FleeceItOut an Instant MessageVisit FleeceItOut's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by HerrOttesen:
This one has confused me for awhile

Say I have 4 Temple Bells on my side of the field, along with a Jace's Erasure. Before the end of my opponents turn, I tap and activate all four Temple Bells. How do they activate with Jace's Erasure on the field? Since we are both drawing cards with Temple Bell, and multiple ones are being activated, how does he mill cards or in what order?



temple bell draw --> jace's erasure trigger
temple bell draw --> jace's erasure trigger
temple bell draw --> jace's erasure trigger
temple bell draw --> jace's erasure trigger
 

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