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Author	Topic: Return to Ravnica Compilation of known info
ryan2754 Member	posted September 06, 2012 10:40 PM Power creep on this set is ridiculous. I mean I love big powerful spells as much as any player but this is seriously redonk. Case and point - Loxodon Smiter - where will it end? Loxodon Hierarch was 4/4 for 4, and everyone thought it was bonkers. now 4/4 for 3, and uncounterable? Good Lord. This is seriously just too much. EDIT: Not to mention Supreme Verdict. [Edited 1 times, lastly by ryan2754 on September 06, 2012]
gcowhsu Member	posted September 06, 2012 11:20 PM Knight of the Reliquary is still a freaken 6+/6+ for 3 mana and pumps himself or has ridiculous utility. Despite that a 4/4 for 3 isn't that impressive. The uncounterable is nice, but vanilla creatures just don't get it done, unless your name is tarmogoyf.
thror Member	posted September 07, 2012 12:03 AM i mean seriously guys, we have or have had 3/2 fliers for 1, and 3/3 groundpounders for 1. you really think 4/4's for 3 are overpowered???? Does NOBODY remember woolly thoctar??? the 5/4 for 3? Hierarch gained you 4 life and saved your team from death. Wilt-leaf Leige came with a glorious anthem, x2. Geist of st traft attacks for 6, and is hexproof. goyf costs 1G. vanilla 4/4s are fair at 2 mana imo, especially considering they just printed a 2 mana card that kills any creature, no restrictions, and it has the upside of killing planeswalkers too. __________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there." [16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for? [16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted [19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself
WeedIan Member	posted September 07, 2012 05:58 AM I remember we had a 2/3 for 3 that could be played for free that saw zero play. __________________ Member Since 03/28/2001 12000+ posts 1st in posts in Ontario 2nd in posts in Canada 10th in posts on MOTL 5th in Refs in Ontario Pushing to get to top 100 in MOTL Refs
MagicPatty Member	posted September 07, 2012 07:39 AM As long as the simplest way to kill a planeswalker is through attacking it, creatures will inevitably get better. As creatures get better, removal gets more interesting. Remember, the developers want MTG games to play out on the battlefield, not on the stack.
Bugger Member	posted September 07, 2012 08:33 AM quote: Originally posted by thror: i mean seriously guys, we have or have had 3/2 fliers for 1, and 3/3 groundpounders for 1. you really think 4/4's for 3 are overpowered???? Does NOBODY remember woolly thoctar??? the 5/4 for 3? Hierarch gained you 4 life and saved your team from death. Wilt-leaf Leige came with a glorious anthem, x2. Geist of st traft attacks for 6, and is hexproof. goyf costs 1G. vanilla 4/4s are fair at 2 mana imo, especially considering they just printed a 2 mana card that kills any creature, no restrictions, and it has the upside of killing planeswalkers too. applause /discussion __________________ It is a known fact that more Americans watch the television than any other appliance.
fluffycow Member	posted September 07, 2012 10:28 AM quote: Originally posted by thror: i mean seriously guys, we have or have had 3/2 fliers for 1, and 3/3 groundpounders for 1. you really think 4/4's for 3 are overpowered???? Does NOBODY remember woolly thoctar??? the 5/4 for 3? Hierarch gained you 4 life and saved your team from death. Wilt-leaf Leige came with a glorious anthem, x2. Geist of st traft attacks for 6, and is hexproof. goyf costs 1G. vanilla 4/4s are fair at 2 mana imo, especially considering they just printed a 2 mana card that kills any creature, no restrictions, and it has the upside of killing planeswalkers too. Very true, even in modern affinity, a 2 mana 4/4 wouldn't make the cut. It sucks that a 4/4 for 3 with 2 non-irrelevant abilities is only good enough as a sideboard card. The U/W plan of playing delver/geist, protect delver/geist is just too strong unless you can overwhelm them, and a vanilla 4/4 aint gonna cut it
revenger Member	posted September 07, 2012 12:31 PM quote: Originally posted by WeedIan: Set is looking REALLY good. That uncountable smother could be relevant in Legacy, i think all this uncounterability won't be very relevant in standard. Smother? You mean Maelstrom Pulse for CMC 3 or less? smother targets a creature. __________________ Motl member since November 1, 2000 Your 2008 and 2010 Motl Siskel & Ebert award winner! 33rd in refs on Motl! #1 Ref's for Arizona! I offer 3rd party services. Email me if interested.
WeedIan Member	posted September 07, 2012 12:46 PM quote: Originally posted by revenger: Smother? You mean Maelstrom Pulse for CMC 3 or less? smother targets a creature. Yikes. reading fail! Super relevant card for legacy. __________________ Member Since 03/28/2001 12000+ posts 1st in posts in Ontario 2nd in posts in Canada 10th in posts on MOTL 5th in Refs in Ontario Pushing to get to top 100 in MOTL Refs
junichi Moderator	posted September 07, 2012 02:16 PM Set looks very good so far. Loltroll is currently my favorite card in this set, and I could see it being bonker in formats outside of standard. Looks really sweet with Vengevines and rootwallas. __________________ MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid. John Wayne
Zakman86 Member	posted September 07, 2012 02:25 PM quote: Originally posted by revenger: Smother? You mean Maelstrom Pulse for CMC 3 or less? smother targets a creature. It's not a Pulse, Pulse kills all copies too. Closest parallel is a Vindicate that can't hit lands or anything more than 3 CMC.
fluffycow Member	posted September 07, 2012 02:30 PM Anybody see anything for the cube yet? I am sure I am missing something obvious because there's no way that nothing spoiled so far is good enough for the cube. And I have a 720 cube
Goaswerfraiejen Member	posted September 07, 2012 03:06 PM I love Scavenge. It's a fantastic mechanic, and fits so well with the flavour of the old Golgari. I think I'll be attending the Pre/release events, for once! As for Abrupt Decay... personally, I'm drooling. True, there's a lot of relevant stuff out there now at CMC 4+; on the other hand, its versatility and uncounterable nature make it mega-attractive/useful. It'll likely be replacing Snuff Out (sniff) in my NO BUG list, where Eternal Witness and company will boost its redundancy and efficacy. I don't know whether that will suffice to wake the deck from its metagame-induced slumber, but it'll be a lot of fun. __________________ "I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot RIP Ari Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions. Info on grad school in Phil.
Bugger Member	posted September 07, 2012 03:39 PM quote: Originally posted by junichi: Set looks very good so far. Loltroll is currently my favorite card in this set, and I could see it being bonker in formats outside of standard. Looks really sweet with Vengevines and rootwallas. Lol at all the Salvation morons who keep reading Loxodon Smiter as somehow having Madness for 0 and talk about pitching it to loltroll __________________ It is a known fact that more Americans watch the television than any other appliance.
junichi Moderator	posted September 07, 2012 03:41 PM quote: Originally posted by Bugger: Lol at all the Salvation morons who keep reading Loxodon Smiter as somehow having Madness for 0 and talk about pitching it to loltroll It's Salvation. Reading is not a prerequisite there. __________________ MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid. John Wayne
Heresy19 Member	posted September 07, 2012 07:12 PM Decay is turning Counterbalance decks into foreveralones like a pro
harbingerofthevoid Member	posted September 07, 2012 08:25 PM quote: Originally posted by Bugger: Lol at all the Salvation morons who keep reading Loxodon Smiter as somehow having Madness for 0 and talk about pitching it to loltroll I (boredom) read a page and a half of people responses about the 6cc Drake and comparing it to a titan. I'm sure there were a couple snarky replies in there but my brain bled a tad.
dfitzg88 Member	posted September 07, 2012 09:19 PM The artwork in this set is blowing me away. Skyline Predator is underwhelming outside of limited as a card, but just looks so cool. I will also be needing 9 foil Supreme Verdicts to fill up a binder page. Sam Burley art is becoming my new favorite.
choco man Member	posted September 07, 2012 10:19 PM quote: Originally posted by fluffycow: Anybody see anything for the cube yet? I am sure I am missing something obvious because there's no way that nothing spoiled so far is good enough for the cube. And I have a 720 cube Rat pack Lotleth troll Dryad militant (strictly better savannah lions) Those just the obvius ones. Fwiw, i dont see how anyone wouldn't jnclude at least the dryad since its strictly better, no ifs ands or buts
fluffycow Member	posted September 08, 2012 07:52 AM quote: Originally posted by choco man: Rat pack Lotleth troll Dryad militant (strictly better savannah lions) Those just the obvius ones. Fwiw, i dont see how anyone wouldn't jnclude at least the dryad since its strictly better, no ifs ands or buts I don't really like rat pack even though black has some very weak creatures, 3 and a discard is a bit much. BG is already really competitive, I am not sure if the troll can cut it. I am thinking it would be better than abrupt decay, but I don't even think that would make the cut Dryad militant isn't strictly better because if my opponent doesn't interact with the graveyard than it makes my regrowth and eternal witness weaker. And honestly, outside of snapcaster mage and a very few other cards, removing instant and sorcery doesn't really do much
WeedIan Member	posted September 08, 2012 06:16 PM Desecration Demon 2bb Creature - Demon Rare Flying At the beginning of each combat, any opponent may sacrifice a creature. If a player does, tap Desecration Demon and put a +1/+1 counter on it. Illus. Jason Chan #63/274 6/6 __________________ Member Since 03/28/2001 12000+ posts 1st in posts in Ontario 2nd in posts in Canada 10th in posts on MOTL 5th in Refs in Ontario Pushing to get to top 100 in MOTL Refs
James_Hetfield2 Member	posted September 08, 2012 08:05 PM quote: Originally posted by WeedIan: Desecration Demon 2bb Creature - Demon Rare Flying At the beginning of each combat, any opponent may sacrifice a creature. If a player does, tap Desecration Demon and put a +1/+1 counter on it. Illus. Jason Chan #63/274 6/6 I'd say Abyssal Persecutor is better.
skizzikmonger Member	posted September 08, 2012 08:39 PM quote: Originally posted by James_Hetfield2: I'd say Abyssal Persecutor is better. Persecutor was a mythic with trample that you had to get rid of after getting your opponent to 0 or less life to win the game. This guy's a rare that either nukes a creature every turn and gets bigger, or swings for 6 until you kill it or it kills you. They seem about even to me. [Edited 2 times, lastly by skizzikmonger on September 08, 2012]
thror Member	posted September 08, 2012 09:04 PM yea, they're both not actually very good. __________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there." [16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for? [16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted [19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself
Heresy19 Member	posted September 08, 2012 09:16 PM He's a ''one-way-abyss'' or a big beater with evasion for cheap. But he still isn't great.

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