quote:

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
If Warren Instigator had haste as well would it be playable?

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Visions is banned for the same reasons why instant speed card draw has been nerfed for years. For suspending at 1cc, there's almost no tempo/no opportunity cost for drawing cards off Visions. Ideally, you turn 1 visions and then remove/counter everything and then refill. It's almost like a time-bomb. I don't think it's ok to unban Visions.

Jitte is a monster in aggro-mirrors. R&D is okay with aggro-hosers, they print them all the time. But they are striving for a rock/paper/scissors metagame, and Jitte dominates in a mirror match. They don't want one slice of the metagame (aggro v aggro) to be dominated by one card (a colorless artifact that goes into all decks). Jitte is to aggro mirrors what Pack Rat is to RtR limited. Not an auto-win, but very very good.

Dread Return ban is basically R&D's hate against graveyard strategies. They clearly (ie Rest in Peace) think it's a no-no and pre-emptively banned the card. Seems okay to unban but R&D does have a prejudice against the graveyard.

The philosophy behind the Nacatl ban doesn't have anything to do with Punishing Fire. They essential hoped that an aggro deck other than zoo would step out of Nacatl's shadow after the banning. Delver is conditionally better than Nacatl, yes. But that condition isn't as easy to fulfill than Nacatl's, not even close. Without Ponder/Preordain, Delver doesn't get flipped regularly enough to produce too much harm. I think it was easier to flip back in last year's standard than in Modern now.

quote:

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
Isn't Visions awful in Storm?

I know i'd love drawing it while trying to combo off.

I guess Jitte is reasonable to ban, its hard for me to see Nacatl as being too good when Delver is a thing.

Next query.

If Warren Instigator had haste as well would it be playable?

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Visions might not be perfect in combo, but it's still about as good a T1 play as either of storm or splintertwin can think of, plus it enables the more obnoxious fairies and goodstuff Ux decks.

Nacatl is "too good" just b/c Zoo pushed all other aggro decks out of the meta, more or less, while still functioning as a similar card to delver (a.e. more recently Nacatl and Negate were two of the most key cards for Zoo to see in their openers). It let aggro play more like aggro-control against control decks, since the 1-drop was pressure enough to sit back on Negate, or tap out to disrupt the opponent, when historically aggro had to make a choice between board pressure or disruption during the first few turns. Delver could be too good if visions wasn't banned and if Jund didn't tend to chuckle at it. It's harder to protect it than it was before the "cannot be countered" removal spells and such that we have now.

Jitte is too swingy, plus it's very unfun (for many people). Just too widely disliked I think.

Dread Return (like was said above) is just "hey we don't want a good dredge deck"

Visions would just make everyone want to play blue more then they already do...

Dread Return is meh, could come off or stay on and matters very little either way...

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
Nactl won't be coming off, WoTC banned it more due to design constraints then anything else....

Visions would just make everyone want to play blue more then they already do...

Dread Return is meh, could come off or stay on and matters very little either way...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
Nactl won't be coming off, WoTC banned it more due to design constraints then anything else....

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Yeah, in R&D's eyes, Nacatl is a card who's power level is suitable for Legacy but not for Modern.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
Feel free to quote me on this - Nacatl will be off the banned list in 2 years or less. The reasoning they gave for banning Nacatl was a cop-out, since it's even harder to justify leaving cranial plating and delver legal while keeping Nacatl on the bench. Ideally, R&D wants to see some people perform well with some form of zoo during the upcoming modern season, which I guarantee won't happen, especially with jund running lingering souls now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by choco man:
Dread Return ban is basically R&D's hate against graveyard strategies. They clearly (ie Rest in Peace) think it's a no-no and pre-emptively banned the card. Seems okay to unban but R&D does have a prejudice against the graveyard.

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I think this was more to hate out the 'manaless' graveyard strategies. Unburial Rites is an equally powerful effect, but is not banned.

It seems a fine canidate for being unbanned due to all of the Yard hate available now (RiP, Graffdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb, etc).

edit>

Re: Nacatl

quote:

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
Feel free to quote me on this - Nacatl will be off the banned list in 2 years or less. The reasoning they gave for banning Nacatl was a cop-out, since it's even harder to justify leaving cranial plating and delver legal while keeping Nacatl on the bench. Ideally, R&D wants to see some people perform well with some form of zoo during the upcoming modern season, which I guarantee won't happen, especially with jund running lingering souls now.

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R&D doesn't care about "Zoo." They care about aggro.

Cranial Plating is high in power, but requires total dedication to the artifact sub-type. There is no way to get around it, Affinity is a good deck playing bad cards. Delver isn't close to the same power level as Nacatl with Preordain and Ponder banned.

The Nacatl ban sucks, hope they unban it. Especially since no aggro deck has clearly come out of the Nacatl ban. Nacatl wasn't oppressing other aggro decks.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dimh:
I think this was more to hate out the 'manaless' graveyard strategies. Unburial Rites is an equally powerful effect, but is not banned.

It seems a fine canidate for being unbanned due to all of the Yard hate available now (RiP, Graffdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb, etc).

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But there is a big difference between a free graveyard spell and a non-free one. The non-free ones are rarely competitive.

I feel like Unburial Rites isn't even a graveyard card since it's only used in conjunction with Gifts and no other graveyard related card.

Dark Depths
Rite of Flame
Blazing Shoal

anyone can help me!?

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I would imagine Rite of Flame is for combo obviously, just not sure which combo officially gave it the hammer.

Dark Depths works with Hexmage as most know, I assume that this game plan is too good and too easy to assemble, but someone else may be able to clear that up a little better.

Net 1, Net 2, Net 3, net 4. Then if you cast Past in Flames. Net 4, net 3 net 2 net 1 and storm count of 9

He listed the card as EX+ with a small ink spot. In fact the card was inked all around on every borders on front and back. This is not what I call a EX+ card and it's not possible to see this on a scan if the ink job is not too bad. So there's a difference between small ink spot and inked all around and EX+ and VG. If the card was not inked all around the borders would all be moderatly played, inking a card do not change a card grade from VG to EX+.

So in my opinion I think that when a seller describe his card in a condition which his far better than reality it's fair to ask to return the card for a refund or try to find a way to agree on something else cause even if 3.5 K is cheap for a Lotus Alpha I was still not looking for a card that is inked all around.

quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
I'm confused as to some of the banned cards in Modern:

Dark Depths
Rite of Flame
Blazing Shoal

anyone can help me!?

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They want to put a leash on combo. Rite of Flame obviously makes Storm an even better combo. Dark Depths + Vampire Hexmage. Blazing Shoal was in the poison deck Sam Black played and it got axed after the Pro Tour that Estratti won. Turn 2 wins with counterspell mana up is a little absurd.

I am quite sick of "Oh hai check my list for dual lands"

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
Oh ican't wait for the GP so i can overhaul my H/W.

I am quite sick of "Oh hai check my list for dual lands"

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quote:

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Originally posted by NickD2:
1 arid mesa -> 9.50
4 deathrite shaman -> 6.50
1 marsh flats -> 9.50
1 misty rainforest -> 15.00
1 scalding tarn -> 15.00
1 stoneforge mystic -> 5.00
1 wasteland -> 30.00

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quote:

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Originally posted by caquaa:
new members... so terrible. These are the prices hes offering me on my sales thread.... guess PM is the way to do bad offers so you don't seem so dumb in public, but I'll make sure his user name is here.

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I guess he wants prices from before Modern Season

quote:

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
I guess he wants prices from before Modern Season

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quote:

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Originally posted by caquaa:
they are lower than SCG buy list prices.... talk about insulting.

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That's not insulting man, is it? I mean, who's gonna sell em at those prices? Eventually he'll flame out or get the picture, lol. It's like natural selection or something.

quote:

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
That's not insulting man, is it? I mean, who's gonna sell em at those prices? Eventually he'll flame out or get the picture, lol. It's like natural selection or something

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quote:

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Originally posted by FleeceItOut:
debating on picking up stuff for modern, weighing the extra costs if FNM modern just blows up

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