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Originally posted by jasonost:
Yesterday at a prerelease I had a Basilica Screecher in play and I cast an Orzhov Keyrune. I paid W for the Extort trigger. In response, my opponent cast Gruul Charm on my Basilica Screecher to kill it. A judge ruled that the extort ability doesn't work if the permanent that had it is no longer in play by the time the extort resolves. Could someone explain this to me?

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The 'judge' is incorrect. Once an ability triggers, it is independent of the source. If you have a prodigal sorcerer, and you activate it, it doesnt matter if it dies or not before the ability resolves. the ability still happens. you should have gotten your 1 point of lifedrain.

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"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Originally posted by jasonost:
Yesterday at a prerelease I had a Basilica Screecher in play and I cast an Orzhov Keyrune. I paid W for the Extort trigger. In response, my opponent cast Gruul Charm on my Basilica Screecher to kill it. A judge ruled that the extort ability doesn't work if the permanent that had it is no longer in play by the time the extort resolves. Could someone explain this to me?

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Originally posted by caquaa:
you need a new judge that can read cards properly

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Originally posted by thror:
The 'judge' is incorrect. Once an ability triggers, it is independent of the source. If you have a prodigal sorcerer, and you activate it, it doesnt matter if it dies or not before the ability resolves. the ability still happens. you should have gotten your 1 point of lifedrain.

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Originally posted by jasonost:
This was the case that I made to the Judge and the player that wanted me to call one, but he said that this was the ruling in the FAQ. On a possibly related note, I later asked him if a play casts a spell and uses an extort trigger, whether the extort trigger(s) or the spell resolves first. He told me that the spell would resolve first, although I can't see how this would work.

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he's wrong again. IF he is actually a judge, he needs to re-learn some of the rules.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

Opponent attacked with 5 creatures. I have that angel that can block any number of creatures and gets +1/+1 for each creature it is blocking.

My Angel is an 8/8

One of his creatures is a 6/1 with trample. Is damage assigned that his 6/1 does damage and then i take no trample, or does he do enough damage that i always take the 6/1.

I believe I take zero trample damage but at the Pre-Release i took the 6 trample from what the judge said.

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quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
Can I include 1x spectral lynx in my Geist of Saint Traft EDH deck?

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No its color identity is Black and White

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
Ruling.

Opponent attacked with 5 creatures. I have that angel that can block any number of creatures and gets +1/+1 for each creature it is blocking.

My Angel is an 8/8

One of his creatures is a 6/1 with trample. Is damage assigned that his 6/1 does damage and then i take no trample, or does he do enough damage that i always take the 6/1.

I believe I take zero trample damage but at the Pre-Release i took the 6 trample from what the judge said.

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if the other creatures have enough to deal lethal damage to your 8/8, any creatures with trample can do their combat damage to you.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

It appears Starcitygames says something similar:

"Both Land Tax and Ivory Tower have abilities that trigger at the beginning of upkeep. You can stack them the way you want to. The best is to stack Ivory Tower first, then Land Tax. The Land Tax will resolve first, getting lands for you, then the Ivory Tower will give you life based on a now-larger hand."

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Originally posted by achaye:
Thanks for the response Pali, but after looking around a bit more, is that right? A similar question over at MTGSalvation says that during simul-upkeep effects, the player whose upkeep it is gets to decide which effect goes on the stack first.

It appears Starcitygames says something similar:

"Both Land Tax and Ivory Tower have abilities that trigger at the beginning of upkeep. You can stack them the way you want to. The best is to stack Ivory Tower first, then Land Tax. The Land Tax will resolve first, getting lands for you, then the Ivory Tower will give you life based on a now-larger hand."

Can another member confirm/deny this? Thanks!

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Looks to me like what he said was a shorter, less in-depth version of what you quoted. If you control both triggers, you can put them on the stack either way you choose to. Obviously you want to make the most beneficial choice to you.

Crumbling ashes : At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy target creature with a -1/-1 counter on it.

Nitpick #1 - Crumbling ashes is NOT a creature aura enchantment. it is a normal enchantment.

If you control BOTH of them (generally means you cast them both), at the beginning of your upkeep, you get to choose which order the triggers go on the stack. Crumbling ashes MUST have a legal target (a creature with a -1/-1 counter) when you put it on the stack. So, before either ability does anything, Ashes needs a legal target. if there is NO creature with a -1/-1 counter on it right then, the ability doesnt happen.

So, if you play them both the same turn, during your next upkeep, unless something else has a -1/-1 counter, nothing gets destroyed. the turn AFTER that, you probably have a creature with a counter on it to destroy, though.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

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Comprehensive Rules:

503.1. First, any abilities that trigger at the beginning of the upkeep step and any abilities that triggered during the turn's untap step go on the stack. (See rule 603, "Handling Triggered Abilities.")

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and

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Comprehensive Rules:

603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses.

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Originally posted by thror:
Glistening oil : At the beginning of your upkeep, put a -1/-1 counter on ench creature.

Crumbling ashes : At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy target creature with a -1/-1 counter on it.

So, if you play them both the same turn, during your next upkeep, unless something else has a -1/-1 counter, nothing gets destroyed. the turn AFTER that, you probably have a creature with a counter on it to destroy, though.

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There's also a ruling on this from Gatherer on Crumbling Ashes:

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Gatherer rulings:

You can't target a creature unless it already has a -1/-1 counter on it as your upkeep begins. Putting a -1/-1 counter on a creature during your upkeep won't let Crumbling Ashes destroy it that turn.

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And from the Comprehensive rules, after a condition for a trigger is met:

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Comprehensive Rules:

603.3d The remainder of the process for putting a triggered ability on the stack is identical to the process for casting a spell listed in rules 601.2c-d. If a choice is required when the triggered ability goes on the stack but no legal choices can be made for it, or if a rule or a continuous effect otherwise makes the ability illegal, the ability is simply removed from the stack.

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If you don't have 601.2c memorized, here it is (just remember to substitute triggered ability for spell here):

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Comprehensive Rules:

601.2c The player announces his or her choice of an appropriate player, object, or zone for each target the spell requires.

...

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__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Originally posted by JoshSherman:
Looks to me like what he said was a shorter, less in-depth version of what you quoted.

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Originally posted by Brujah-99:
I have a questions about necrotic ooze and phyrexian devourer.

If I have phyrexian devourer in my grave yard and necrotic ooze's power becomes greater than 7 do I have to sacrifice the necrotic ooze?

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No. For one, Phyrexian Devourer's first ability is a trigger ability. (I think.)
And Necrotic Ooze is still Necrotic Ooze. If that ability was attached to Necrotic Ooze, it would check itself to see if it was a Phyrexian Devourer, see that it was still indeed a Necrotic Ooze, and do nothing.

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Originally posted by fedorables:
No. For one, Phyrexian Devourer's first ability is a trigger ability. (I think.)
And Necrotic Ooze is still Necrotic Ooze. If that ability was attached to Necrotic Ooze, it would check itself to see if it was a Phyrexian Devourer, see that it was still indeed a Necrotic Ooze, and do nothing.

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The first ability is triggered, so the ooze is safe at 7 power.

However, it doesn't matter that the card says "phyrexian devourer", the game rules see "this". So if it was an activated ability it would indeed apply.

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201.4. Text that refers to the object it's on by name means just that particular object and not any other objects with that name, regardless of any name changes caused by game effects.

201.4a If an ability's effect grants another ability to an object, and that second ability refers to that first ability's source by name, the name refers only to the specific object that is that first ability's source, not to any other object with the same name. This is also true if the second ability is copied onto a new object.
Example: Gutter Grime has an ability that reads "Whenever a nontoken creature you control dies, put a slime counter on Gutter Grime, then put a green Ooze creature token onto the battlefield with 'This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of slime counters on Gutter Grime.'" The ability granted to the token only looks at the Gutter Grime that created the token, not at any other Gutter Grime on the battlefield. A copy of that token would also have an ability that referred only to the Gutter Grime that created the original token.

201.4b If an ability of an object refers to that object by name, and an object with a different name gains that ability, each instance of the first name in the gained ability that refers to the first object by name should be treated as the second name.
Example: Quicksilver Elemental says, in part, "{U}: Quicksilver Elemental gains all activated abilities of target creature until end of turn." If it gains an ability that says "{G}: Regenerate Cudgel Troll," activating that ability will regenerate Quicksilver Elemental, not the Cudgel Troll it gained the ability from.
Example: Glacial Ray is an instant with "splice onto Arcane" that says "Glacial Ray deals 2 damage to target creature or player." If it's spliced onto a Kodama's Reach, that Kodama's Reach deals 2 damage to the target creature or player.
Example: Dimir Doppelganger says "{1}{U}{B}: Exile target creature card from a graveyard. Dimir Doppelganger becomes a copy of that card and gains this ability." Dimir Doppelganger's ability is activated targeting a Runeclaw Bear card. The Doppelganger becomes a copy of Runeclaw Bear and gains an ability that should be treated as saying "{1}{U}{B}: Exile target creature card from a graveyard. Runeclaw Bear becomes a copy of that card and gains this ability."

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pail42:
The damage trigger will go on the stack, and then the creature will die and the death trigger will go on the stack before the damage trigger resolves. The death trigger will resolve first.

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1. The creatures deal damage, and creature A's ability triggers.
2. State-based actions occur; creature B dies, and its ability triggers.
3. Both triggered abilities are put on the stack at the same time, starting with those controlled by the active player.