Author
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Topic: The Rulings Thread part 55 - Please post ALL Rules Questions here!
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nderdog Moderator
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posted November 26, 2013 07:26 AM
Post all your rules/tournament questions here and they will get answered. Please wait a bit before you think we ignored you, we all live lives outside of MOTL but we do answer when we see them.If you are going to answer a question, please be 100% sure that your answer is correct. If you are just guessing or *think* you know the answer, keep it to yourself. There are plenty of judges and people who will know it correctly, and if multiple answers are given, it just confuses the person who asked. This thread is a flame-free zone. If you can't be civil, don't respond. New players shouldn't be worried about being made fun of when they're trying to learn. Some information for ya... Comprehensive Rules (also available in Word, Rich Text, and PDF formats) The complete rules for the game of Magic. Beginners should not go here; they are very intimidating. Oracle Card Reference The official text for every card in existence (use Gatherer for any quick questions about Oracle texts, Gatherer uses the Oracle text of all cards). Official Tournament Rules The official rules for sanctioned tournaments. Basic Rulebook Simplified rules for beginning players. If you are new to the game, you should read this and not the Comprehensive Rules. Set FAQs The official FAQs for each set. Look here if you have a specific question about a card. Judge Certification Program How to become a judge. MTG-L mailing list archives A good place to get official answers to rules questions, or to search for previous answers. DCIJUDGE-L mailing list archives The official Judge list. A good place to search for previous answers and discussion involving judging decisions, philosophy, etc. NOT rules questions. That's what MTG-L is for. __________________ There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please! Report rules violations. Remember the Auctions Board!
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psrex Member
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posted November 27, 2013 11:00 AM
What happens if I have Pacifism on an opponent's Fleecemane Lion and the Fleecemane Lion becomes monstrous? Does the hexproof ability make Pacifism fall off?
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mikeyk135 Member
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posted November 27, 2013 11:14 AM
quote: Originally posted by psrex: What happens if I have Pacifism on an opponent's Fleecemane Lion and the Fleecemane Lion becomes monstrous? Does the hexproof ability make Pacifism fall off?
No, Pacifism stays as long as it is already on the Lion before monstrous. It is no longer targeting it and is just enchanting it. (Protection would cause it to fall off however)
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Styrofoam02 Member
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posted December 01, 2013 12:39 PM
Player A plays Aetherling Player B plays Dissolve, targeting aetherling Player A plays Counterflux, targeting Dissolve Player B plays another Dissolve targeting the Aetherling spell on the stack Legal or not? As I read the text, the spell is being targeted... but if it is buried in the stack somewhere can it not be targeted? I'm curious as to how that would work?
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thror Member
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posted December 01, 2013 12:42 PM
counterspells can target anything on the stack. nothing is 'buried'. perfectly fine.__________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers <KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep <KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep
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Styrofoam02 Member
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posted December 01, 2013 01:14 PM
interesting, thank you.
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thror Member
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posted December 01, 2013 02:40 PM
quote: Originally posted by Styrofoam02: interesting, thank you.
our of curiosity, where did you get the idea that it didnt work this way? __________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers <KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep <KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep
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Styrofoam02 Member
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posted December 01, 2013 02:44 PM
I guess it was just out of habit of counterspell wars. Counter X with counterspell. I counter your counterspell. I counter yours etc. It just never goes to I counter the original spell instead of the counter... the end result is the same, so it's never come up. But with Counterflux being uncounterable, I was trying to find a way to get around it, and this came up to my head. I figured it *DID* work, but I was wondering why it just doesn't happen more often.
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Styrofoam02 Member
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posted December 01, 2013 04:41 PM
I also assume that if the player B pays the overload cost for Counterflux, and player A casts dissolve targeting Aetherling, LIFO would go Dissolve resolves, countering Aetherling, then counterflux resolves countering the other dissolve on the stack, which would be countered, and since the first dissolve resolved, Aetherling would be countered?Is this correct?
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thror Member
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posted December 01, 2013 06:05 PM
correct.__________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers <KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep <KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep
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keywacat Member
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posted December 03, 2013 01:03 AM
Ciao all;I need confirmation about Flickerwisp / Conjurer's Closet. If I control both and send the Flickerwisp into the closet at the beginning of my end step, when it comes back out the 'beginning' will have passed and whatever I chose to flicker will not return until the beginning of my opponent's end step, yeah? Cheers for it; keywacat
[Edited 1 times, lastly by keywacat on December 03, 2013]
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Pail42 Member
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posted December 03, 2013 02:20 PM
quote: Originally posted by keywacat: I need confirmation about Flickerwisp / Conjurer's Closet. If I control both and send the Flickerwisp into the closet at the beginning of my end step, when it comes back out the 'beginning' will have passed and whatever I chose to flicker will not return until the beginning of my opponent's end step, yeah?
Correct. quote:
513. End Step513.1. First, all abilities that trigger "at the beginning of the end step" or "at the beginning of the next end step" go on the stack. (See rule 603, "Handling Triggered Abilities.") 513.1a Previously, abilities that trigger at the beginning of the end step were printed with the trigger condition "at end of turn." Cards that were printed with that text have received errata in the Oracle card reference to say "at the beginning of the end step" or "at the beginning of the next end step." 513.2. Second, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. 513.3. If a permanent with an ability that triggers "at the beginning of the end step" enters the battlefield during this step, that ability won't trigger until the next turn's end step. Likewise, if a delayed triggered ability that triggers "at the beginning of the next end step" is created during this step, that ability won't trigger until the next turn's end step. In other words, the step doesn't "back up" so those abilities can go on the stack. This rule applies only to triggered abilities; it doesn't apply to continuous effects whose durations say "until end of turn" or "this turn." (See rule 514, "Cleanup Step.")
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wayne Member
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posted December 04, 2013 09:02 AM
There is one Pack Rat on the table, no copies of it. Player A activates its ability, Player B bounces it while the ability is one the stack. What happens?
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Volcanon Member
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posted December 04, 2013 09:23 AM
quote: Originally posted by wayne: There is one Pack Rat on the table, no copies of it. Player A activates its ability, Player B bounces it while the ability is one the stack. What happens?
A 1/1 Pack Rat token comes into play with the pack rat ability.
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wayne Member
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posted December 04, 2013 10:30 AM
quote: Originally posted by Volcanon: A 1/1 Pack Rat token comes into play with the pack rat ability.
So short of getting Stifled, the pack rat token is coming into play once the ability is on the stack?
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thror Member
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posted December 04, 2013 10:55 AM
quote: Originally posted by wayne: So short of getting Stifled, the pack rat token is coming into play once the ability is on the stack?
yes. an ability on the stack is independent of its source. just like prodigal sorcerers damage ability still happens if he gets killed, a pack rat copy still gets made. __________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers <KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep <KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep
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Volcanon Member
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posted December 04, 2013 11:54 AM
quote: Originally posted by thror: yes. an ability on the stack is independent of its source. just like prodigal sorcerers damage ability still happens if he gets killed, a pack rat copy still gets made.
If you had some way to make the token not a rat, then it would die to SBE. Or maybe Infest/Wrath effects. Only trickbind or stifle effects will counter the ability once it is on the stack.
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Dancam1 Member
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posted December 04, 2013 08:42 PM
I have 2 questions1. For True-Name Nemesis - how does this work? Can I ask an opponent his name? I mean ,how specific to I need to be? Is he/she required to tell me that info? And also, stop me if I am wrong, but, it isn't that powerful, wrath of god kills it, sacrificing kills it etc. Is all this correct? 2. Say I have a God Card like Erebos in play. That is the only card in play, so, he isn't a creature, but, I can use his special ability, right? Now, part B of that question is that if he isn't a creature can my opponent cast a swords to plowshares targeting him? And what happens if Erebos is the only thing in play and the opponent casts Chanier's edict (or some other card that causes me to sacrifice a creature), even though he isn't a creature, he's still a creature card, so, I'd have to sacrifice him, or is that wrong? Thanks in advance Dan
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thror Member
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posted December 04, 2013 09:46 PM
quote: Originally posted by Dancam1: I have 2 questions1. For True-Name Nemesis - how does this work? Can I ask an opponent his name? I mean ,how specific to I need to be? Is he/she required to tell me that info? And also, stop me if I am wrong, but, it isn't that powerful, wrath of god kills it, sacrificing kills it etc. Is all this correct?
uh, wot? "As True-Name Nemesis enters the battlefield, choose a player. True-Name Nemesis has protection from the chosen player. (This creature can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by anything controlled by that player.)" I have no idea why you need your opponents name. "This has protection from you and all your stuff" is pretty straightforward. And yea, it really is fairly powerful. beyond wrath/sac, it doesn't die. #2 - yes, you can use his ability. No, your opponent can't even target him with STP unless he's a creature. If your opponent casts chainers, you sac a creature. If he isn't a creature, you CANT sac him.
__________________ "He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers <KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep <KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep
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wayne Member
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posted December 05, 2013 06:27 AM
quote: Originally posted by thror: yes. an ability on the stack is independent of its source. just like prodigal sorcerers damage ability still happens if he gets killed, a pack rat copy still gets made.
Yep, I knew that, was a bit thrown off by the fact that Pack Rat was no longer in play. So the card is referring to Pack Rat the card in general and not the specific copy of it in play?
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EuroRunner Member
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posted December 05, 2013 07:22 AM
quote: Originally posted by wayne:
Yep, I knew that, was a bit thrown off by the fact that Pack Rat was no longer in play. So the card is referring to Pack Rat the card in general and not the specific copy of it in play?
Correct. The copy will ETB using the last known value of Pack Rat's copiable values. Doesn't need the original Pack Rat in play to copy.
[Edited 3 times, lastly by EuroRunner on December 05, 2013]
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keywacat Member
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posted December 05, 2013 10:10 AM
Ciao all;I've a friend who's trying to tell me that Spell Crumple will not 'tuck' someone's Commander in an EDH game as they can declare it will go to the command zone rather than the graveyard. Oddly enough he says Hinder will work as intuitively intended, even though I cannot see any real difference in the wording between the two. Has anyone else heard of this sort of thing? Cheers; keywacat
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psrex Member
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posted December 05, 2013 10:32 AM
quote: Originally posted by keywacat: Ciao all;I've a friend who's trying to tell me that Spell Crumple will not 'tuck' someone's Commander in an EDH game as they can declare it will go to the command zone rather than the graveyard. Oddly enough he says Hinder will work as intuitively intended, even though I cannot see any real difference in the wording between the two. Has anyone else heard of this sort of thing? Cheers; keywacat
Spell Crumple already has a replacement effect, so the card wasn't going to go to the graveyard and it should be put into the library. Just point your friend to the Oracle rulings on the card: http://magiccards.info/query?q=spell+crumple&v=card&s=cname
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mikeyk135 Member
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posted December 05, 2013 11:49 AM
quote: Originally posted by chaos021: I thought Commander/EDH had special rules that specifically affected your commander so that if it would leave play under any circumstances, it would return to the command zone instead.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/rules/edh If the commander were to go to the graveyard or be exiled, it goes to the command zone instead, doesn't say anything about library. So if it would be put into a library somehow it happens and does not go to command zone I guess
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Devonin Member
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posted December 05, 2013 02:56 PM
quote: Originally posted by mikeyk135: http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/rules/edhIf the commander were to go to the graveyard or be exiled, it goes to the command zone instead, doesn't say anything about library. So if it would be put into a library somehow it happens and does not go to command zone I guess
In French List 1v1 you can put the Commander in the Command zone any time it would change zones from the battlefield to the graveyard, exile OR library. In regular multiplayer, you can only choose to move to the command zone in response to the commander dying or being exiled.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Devonin on December 05, 2013]
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